Who will have more wins?

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Midnight Toker

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May 28, 2010
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#1
Ou or Osu?

This place is getting all boring, lets shake things up. OU will destroy osu with all their preseason all americans, and place higher in the standings than osu. Boom
 

CowboyJD

The Voice of Reason...occasionally......rarely
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#2
Every OSU fan is going to say OSU.

Every OU fan will say OU.

You'll have to try harder than this to generate controversy.

They will have the same number of wins, but OSU wins Bedlam.

OU somehow ends up ranked higher and in a better bowl than OSU despite that fact.

















That's how you generate some controversy.:cool:;)
 

Midnight Toker

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#5
Every OSU fan is going to say OSU.

Every OU fan will say OU.

You'll have to try harder than this to generate controversy.

They will have the same number of wins, but OSU wins Bedlam.

OU somehow ends up ranked higher and in a better bowl than OSU despite that fact.




That's how you generate some controversy.:cool:;)
I can see that happening. I hope for a 5 way tie for first place. Top 5 each goes 6-3. this bs conference
 

ScooberJake

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#8
Exactly, which is why I find it so bizarre how anti conference championship they seem to be.
Is that largely driven by Stoops? I know he has expressed his opposition to it in the past, but I don't know if that is a consensus among Big XII coaches/ADs or if it is OU and maybe Texas throwing their weight around.
 

Midnight Toker

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#9
Is that largely driven by Stoops? I know he has expressed his opposition to it in the past, but I don't know if that is a consensus among Big XII coaches/ADs or if it is OU and maybe Texas throwing their weight around.
No, i highly doubt its largely driven by stoops as he would benefit from his team playing and winning a conference championship. I recall he wasnt a big fan back in the day, but the script has been flipped and now they are at a distinct disadvantage with one less game to play than everyone else. Besides I think Stoops has a 7-1 record in the CCG, it's been good to him. Hell in the one loss he has had he still went to the national championship.
 

Cro

we need some celery and a can of fake snow
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#10
No, i highly doubt its largely driven by stoops as he would benefit from his team playing and winning a conference championship. I recall he wasnt a big fan back in the day, but the script has been flipped and now they are at a distinct disadvantage with one less game to play than everyone else. Besides I think Stoops has a 7-1 record in the CCG, it's been good to him. Hell in the one loss he has had he still went to the national championship.
stoops's script has flipped on a bunch things.......... championship game, shared championships, no excuses........... he's a master of talking out of both sides of his mouth.............
 

Midnight Toker

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#12
stoops's script has flipped on a bunch things.......... championship game, shared championships, no excuses........... he's a master of talking out of both sides of his mouth.............
Seems to be working well for him
 

TouchdownCowboys

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#13
The Big 12 is the only Power conference to play a round robin schedule. The ninth conference game has put the Big 12 SOS ahead of the Pac, BIG, and ACC. If OU and UT can return to the 10 win mark SOS will only get better. Shared title idea was just copying what other leagues did to allow programs to promote themselves. That is the only reason the trophy doesn't say Co Champ. We all saw what OU did two years ago and how effective it can be when promoting the program to casual fans. Those who follow the league closely know who got the BCS nod.
 

TouchdownCowboys

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#14
No, i highly doubt its largely driven by stoops as he would benefit from his team playing and winning a conference championship. I recall he wasnt a big fan back in the day, but the script has been flipped and now they are at a distinct disadvantage with one less game to play than everyone else. Besides I think Stoops has a 7-1 record in the CCG, it's been good to him. Hell in the one loss he has had he still went to the national championship.
Your reasoning doesn't do much to support having another championship game. The divisions, which allowed the creation of the title game, clearly benefitted the programs in the South division. The north teams became highly reliant on Texas recruits once partial qualifiers were eliminated and not playing in the state of Texas as much as south division teams put them at a disadvantage. Which is why NU and MU bolted and the other northern teams became the forgotten five during realignment. Nebraska and Colorado still haven't recovered. A weak North division is the primary reason for Stoops CCG record.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_12_Championship_Game
The Big 12 South held an overall lead of 11–4 over the Big 12 North in the game.[1] In the first eight Big 12 championship games from 1996 to 2003, the divisions split four games each (with the north champion winning in every odd-numbered year and the south champion winning in every even-numbered year). However, the north division champion did not win after Kansas State's upset victory over Oklahoma in 2003.

The Big 12 North lost the last seven championship games and were outscored by 186 points (North 83 South 269). The last championship won by Nebraska still had recruits from Big 8 classes.

I only reason for Baylor and TCU to play again is TCU had to play on the road and that doesn't carry much weight. TCU had an epic collapse in Waco and Baylor stubbed it's toe at Morgantown or either program would have been in the final four. Just like oSu in Ames in 2011. It is OK to stub your toe, but only if your program moves the needle in terms of public interest. Urban Meyers is much higher on that list than any current Big 12 coach with Stoops being at the head of that list.
 
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Midnight Toker

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#15
You dont need to follow the league closely to know who got the BCS nod; just use google. Unfortunately there is no tiebreaker to determine champion between two tied teams, they are tied. I suspect you already knew that though.

And sure, the SOS could get better, but the reasoning as to why the big 12's best didnt get in the playoff was pretty clear- the 13th game benefited the 4 teams that actually did make it in with their 12 wins, and was weighed more heavily than the fact that the Big 12 had two 11 win teams. So as far as i can see it, any 11-1 big 12 champ will always be at a distinct disadvantage to the P5 champ with 12 wins, in the eyes of the people who are in charge of determining who makes it to the playoff. You pretty much have to be undefeated to make it if you are the big 12 champ if you arent really lucky otherwise. You cant afford to stub your toe in the big 12 and expect to be a playoff participate unless you were lucky and the other P5 top teams stubs their toe more than once- that disadvantage the big 12 is at right now will remain a distinct disadvantage until they get a CCG.

My reasoning doesn't do much to support why to have another championship game? The only reason I need is the one provided by the committee, you know, the people whose opinions determine whether or not the big 12 champion gets into the playoff. I disagree that a weak north is primarily why OU has such a good CCG record. Firstly, that neglects the difficulty of getting there in the first place, and secondly that would almost insinuate that the north teams that OU did play weren't respectively ranked: #1, 8, 12, 13, 15, 18, 19 and 21. They have exactly 1 CCG against an unranked north team, so its not like they were playing kansas every year. But sure, they werent playing the auburns or the stanfords and uscs of the world.
 
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#17
You dont need to follow the league closely to know who got the BCS nod; just use google. Unfortunately there is no tiebreaker to determine champion between two tied teams, they are tied. I suspect you already knew that though.

And sure, the SOS could get better, but the reasoning as to why the big 12's best didnt get in the playoff was pretty clear- the 13th game benefited the 4 teams that actually did make it in with their 12 wins, and was weighed more heavily than the fact that the Big 12 had two 11 win teams. So as far as i can see it, any 11-1 big 12 champ will always be at a distinct disadvantage to the P5 champ with 12 wins, in the eyes of the people who are in charge of determining who makes it to the playoff. You pretty much have to be undefeated to make it if you are the big 12 champ if you arent really lucky otherwise. You cant afford to stub your toe in the big 12 and expect to be a playoff participate unless you were lucky and the other P5 top teams stubs their toe more than once- that disadvantage the big 12 is at right now will remain a distinct disadvantage until they get a CCG.

My reasoning doesn't do much to support why to have another championship game? The only reason I need is the one provided by the committee, you know, the people whose opinions determine whether or not the big 12 champion gets into the playoff. I disagree that a weak north is primarily why OU has such a good CCG record. Firstly, that neglects the difficulty of getting there in the first place, and secondly that would almost insinuate that the north teams that OU did play weren't respectively ranked: #1, 8, 12, 13, 15, 18, 19 and 21. They have exactly 1 CCG against an unranked north team, so its not like they were playing kansas every year. But sure, they werent playing the auburns or the stanfords and uscs of the world.
Your argument has merit but I'm not sure I agree with it completely. Did not having a CCG last year cost the conference a spot in the playoff?... perhaps, but I think it was more of the conference not having a high profile game on that weekend, not necessarily a CCG. It was also a product of how Ohio State pummeled Wisky. I think it was more of a fact that the BIG12 left no taste in the mouth of the selecting committee. Our high profile teams (Baylor and TCU), played lackluster opponents on regional TV, instead of national telecasts.

Secondly, I think the Big 12 decided against because they don't yet know, (on a long term basis), if not having one is detrimental. Current concensus is still Damned if you do, Damned if you don't. I don't think they had enough statistical data points yet to really make a decision, so they decided not to change anything at this point, which is probably a good decision for now, (only time will tell).
 

Midnight Toker

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#18
Your argument has merit but I'm not sure I agree with it completely. Did not having a CCG last year cost the conference a spot in the playoff?... perhaps, but I think it was more of the conference not having a high profile game on that weekend, not necessarily a CCG. It was also a product of how Ohio State pummeled Wisky. I think it was more of a fact that the BIG12 left no taste in the mouth of the selecting committee. Our high profile teams (Baylor and TCU), played lackluster opponents on regional TV, instead of national telecasts.

Secondly, I think the Big 12 decided against because they don't yet know, (on a long term basis), if not having one is detrimental. Current concensus is still Damned if you do, Damned if you don't. I don't think they had enough statistical data points yet to really make a decision, so they decided not to change anything at this point, which is probably a good decision for now, (only time will tell).
It's fair to think it was the not having a high profile game during championship weekend is why, and that would hold weight if the committee didnt flat out say that the 13th game (or 12th victory) is what gave the other 4 teams a bump over the big12 members. That alone is enough to convince me that we need a CCG. If not from the mouth of the people in charge of who gets in, what better source can you have? IMO the b12 is screwing itself by maintaining the status quo, we know what the committee is looking at, and the big 12 says "meh". So again, when the big 12 champ with 11 wins gets shut out of the playoff because all the other P5 champs have 12+ wins, dont say i didnt tell you so. B12 is just hoping that doesnt happen again but we all know those crazy scenarios actually do happen, they arent theoretical anymore. Just think we have had two ties already in the 4 years we've had 10 teams. Weve had three way ties in the past, in both divisions, we had two awesome teams who got shut out last year- these things happen and we need to do what the committee members are looking at which is give our champion an extra victory so they get considered.
 

RutherfordFan

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#19
I think OSU will have more wins. OSU will have 9 wins. (hopefully more)
OU wins 8 is my prediction.

As for the title game thing, I see what you are saying in regards to extra game. Last year it wasn't going to matter. A Big 12 team wasn't getting in because FSU stayed undefeated (that hurt Big 12 bigtime) and Ohio State was getting in if they beat Michigan, we all know why. They have tons of fans and power, ohio state alums everywhere.

I think we should try the status quo and if it happens again switch. It's unfair to the team that beat one team previously to have to play a title game and then split yet not win the Big 12. I think it's silly to have a title game when you have round robin format. That is what the big 12 should promote, instead the dumb idiots say one true champion.

Should be ONLY ROUND ROBIN LEAGUE--PROMOTE THE CRAP OUT OF THAT.
 

Midnight Toker

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#20
I think the only thing the round robin has shown us over the past few years is that it just doesnt work. There's too likely a tie. It's very feasible we could end up with three 8-1 teams, then what? What if they're all 11-1 and could and should all be considered for the playoff? These are the scenarios they hope to avoid with this format but it keeps happening, so it just cant work when you have a scenario giving every other league champ an extra game to win. We just need two more teams and get it over with, have two hopefully evenly matched divisions and be done with it.