What about expanding to 16?

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Feb 16, 2010
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#4
Question other than boise state being in BFE and their stadium. What else is wrong with them? Good wrestling team. Don't know about academics or BBall, but I would like to see them in a major conference. Not really in the Big 12 but maybe PAC or someone else.
 
Jul 2, 2004
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#6
Question other than boise state being in BFE and their stadium. What else is wrong with them? Good wrestling team. Don't know about academics or BBall, but I would like to see them in a major conference. Not really in the Big 12 but maybe PAC or someone else.
Basically a small school that has grown from a JC to a 4 year school. Pretty poor in everything but football.
 
May 30, 2008
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#7
Question other than boise state being in BFE and their stadium. What else is wrong with them? Good wrestling team. Don't know about academics or BBall, but I would like to see them in a major conference. Not really in the Big 12 but maybe PAC or someone else.
I don't mean to call you out personally, but you represent a group of people that think that BSU will be able to replicate their success and get on TV even when they get into a big boy conference. That's simply not the case. They are trendy right now because they (1) Go undefeated (2) Are the image of underdog with the media (3) Play good games early (4) Win BCS games and (5) work well as media fodder when they get left out of the title game.

Can you name me one of those items that will sustain their success when they join the Big 12?
 
Feb 16, 2010
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#8
I don't mean to call you out personally, but you represent a group of people that think that BSU will be able to replicate their success and get on TV even when they get into a big boy conference. That's simply not the case. They are trendy right now because they (1) Go undefeated (2) Are the image of underdog with the media (3) Play good games early (4) Win BCS games and (5) work well as media fodder when they get left out of the title game.

Can you name me one of those items that will sustain their success when they join the Big 12?
Actually quite the opposite. If you ever payed attention to my post about Boise. I like Uo more than I do them. (1)I'm sick of hearing this crap of them being 30+ and whatever. (2) Them eating up the effing votes in the top 25 (3) Play nobody early or really at all(Georgia Sucks, VT Sucks, and playing one half ass good team a year doesn't even come close to qualifying you in the top 25) (4) I'm ready to watch them get butt raped every year. Now I hope they don't join the Big 12, but it wouldn't bother me watching OSU pound that AZ every year. Now I know they are good at wrestling and have had luck in football, but I don't know anything else about them.

So before you don't mean to "Call Me Out" you should ask what my position on BSU is.
 
Apr 26, 2011
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#9
I don't mean to call you out personally, but you represent a group of people that think that BSU will be able to replicate their success and get on TV even when they get into a big boy conference. That's simply not the case. They are trendy right now because they (1) Go undefeated (2) Are the image of underdog with the media (3) Play good games early (4) Win BCS games and (5) work well as media fodder when they get left out of the title game.

Can you name me one of those items that will sustain their success when they join the Big 12?
That's why (if the Big 12 survives) I would like to see them join the PAC :veryevilgrin: It will be fun watching them fail miserably after them throwing fits every time they don't get in the bowl that they think they should.
 
Aug 8, 2009
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#10
IF you want to do that..I know you don't want to hear this..but why not Houston? I mean they have been pretty good the past 3 year I believe...I know you don't want another Texas school, but they are already recruiting in Texas...
 

PokealypseNow

You Can Dere-Lick My Footballs, Cap-E-Tan
Oct 15, 2008
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#11
IF you want to do that..I know you don't want to hear this..but why not Houston? I mean they have been pretty good the past 3 year I believe...I know you don't want another Texas school, but they are already recruiting in Texas...
I know you don't want to hear this ;) but it's much of the same reasons as saying no to Boise: small school, low attendance, small endowment, etc. Adding schools like Houston and Boise would be a net loss to the conference, taking more money than they bring in.
 
Aug 8, 2009
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#12
I know you don't want to hear this ;) but it's much of the same reasons as saying no to Boise: small school, low attendance, small endowment, etc. Adding schools like Houston and Boise would be a net loss to the conference, taking more money than they bring in.
It don't bother me much....I just was curious I know they are a "good" team..but with them talking bout adding BYU and what not...well go a different direction...since we got TCU and WV...then talk bout ND coming for just basketball...or thats what I take it for..witch I'd rahter have a team come with everything than just one sport....who would be a good get?
 
Apr 26, 2011
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#13
I know you don't want to hear this ;) but it's much of the same reasons as saying no to Boise: small school, low attendance, small endowment, etc. Adding schools like Houston and Boise would be a net loss to the conference, taking more money than they bring in.
While I am not advocating UH, I do have to say that they at least have good (underrated) academics, and are much more than a 4-year community college. I have friends getting their masters and doctorate degrees there, and they were actually high up on my list of graduate schools as well. That said, they probably have worse attendance numbers than BS, and add nothing to the viewer market.
 
Apr 20, 2006
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#14
Here's my opinion, and only my opinion...so try to refrain from flaming me please.

I've heard that once Mizzou leaves, WVU is in. Ok, fine. Good athletic program...good football and basketball. Good budget. Only downside is a little extra travel.

The travel it'll take to have WVU in the conference is bad enough...can you imagine what it'll be like to add not one, but 2 Florida schools? I'd say those two are out for that reason and that reason only. Decent programs, both, but the travel issues would be too extreme.

BYU is eliminated because of the apparent demands they made that were too much for the Big 12, and no longer seem to stand a chance of getting in. I'm also in agreement about Boise's program. Their football program is pretty good. Very good, in fact. But, if there is any truth to the whole 27% graduation rate thing, that's not good at all, and should be killed with fire.

To be quite honest, the 12 that are being proposed are probably the optimal setup.

Big 12 South/West
OSU
OU
UT
TTU
TCU
BU

Big 12 North/East
KU
KSU
ISU
WVU
Louisville
Cincy

And leave it at 12 until some more suitable programs present themselves. Though if Superconferences are the definite way of the future, I say we consider these candidates:

New Mexico (could be decent football if they just get their act together, and basketball is already good)
Utah State (same as UNM, but IMO better football potential, basketball team is already good)

And honestly, I can't really come up with any other good candidates to consider, and for even suggesting USU and UNM I'm already kinda pushing my luck.

Anyone else have any other schools they'd like to see get in? Something at least kind of close to our footprint (like maybe in Ohio, Illinois, but Florida's kinda far out there IMO).
 

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#15
If the Big 12 is to expand up to 14/16, I just hope we keep all our targets in a single direction, east or west. Especially if we reach far out into Appalachia for WVU. Taking them and then nabbing a far west team like a Nevada school or what have you would be pain for travel (although it would be fun and smart long term to preempt the Pac-12 from grabbing the up and coming Western teams).
 

Celldweller7

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#16
Here's my opinion, and only my opinion...so try to refrain from flaming me please.

I've heard that once Mizzou leaves, WVU is in. Ok, fine. Good athletic program...good football and basketball. Good budget. Only downside is a little extra travel.

The travel it'll take to have WVU in the conference is bad enough...can you imagine what it'll be like to add not one, but 2 Florida schools? I'd say those two are out for that reason and that reason only. Decent programs, both, but the travel issues would be too extreme.

BYU is eliminated because of the apparent demands they made that were too much for the Big 12, and no longer seem to stand a chance of getting in. I'm also in agreement about Boise's program. Their football program is pretty good. Very good, in fact. But, if there is any truth to the whole 27% graduation rate thing, that's not good at all, and should be killed with fire.

To be quite honest, the 12 that are being proposed are probably the optimal setup.

Big 12 South/West
OSU
OU
UT
TTU
TCU
BU

Big 12 North/East
KU
KSU
ISU
WVU
Louisville
Cincy

And leave it at 12 until some more suitable programs present themselves. Though if Superconferences are the definite way of the future, I say we consider these candidates:

New Mexico (could be decent football if they just get their act together, and basketball is already good)
Utah State (same as UNM, but IMO better football potential, basketball team is already good)

And honestly, I can't really come up with any other good candidates to consider, and for even suggesting USU and UNM I'm already kinda pushing my luck.

Anyone else have any other schools they'd like to see get in? Something at least kind of close to our footprint (like maybe in Ohio, Illinois, but Florida's kinda far out there IMO).
If the conference goes past 12, they have to pick up BYU. Utah State is the 3rd concern in that market, if that, BYU has a great market presence, bigger than any school in that region (including Utah).

I think New Mexico is a good choice if the conference pushes past 12, the best of the mid-major options (excluding BYU).
 

TouchdownCowboys

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Aug 24, 2009
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#17
If you go to sixteen then you have to impact TV sets in other conference territories. The beauty of the PAC 16 was owning the western half of the USA TV markets. That land footprint was enormous and prevented expansion of TV sets to the Big10 and SEC. It also marginalized the forgotten five who would not be able to carry the TV sets if they couldn't get into the SEC or Big 10.

Already Good Options
West Virginia
Louisville
BYU
Houston- they deserve some love, like TCU, after getting hosed by the SWC.

TV Markets with Options with Potential

UNLV - huge market. They would be the new Baylor, but Big 12 money has made Baylor so much better. They have huge market potential and right now Nevada is quasi Pac 12 with no schools in the league. Take that Larry Scott.

Nevada-smaller market, but provides travel partner and they have done well in football in a non AQ league.

Memphis- They take from the SEC and badly need an upgrade in conference to get better.

Boise State- football is king and Boise is the Nebraska of Idaho.

BEST PODS FOR OSU

RIO GRANDE
UT
HOUSTON
NEW MEXICO
TEXAS TECH

RED RIVER
BAYLOR
TCU
OU
OSU

HEARTLAND
KU
KSU
LOUISVILLE
WV

NOT PAC
BYU / NEVADA
UNLV
BOISE STATE
ISU (once again they get screwed)
 

Celldweller7

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#18
I don't think 16 is a horrible concept for this league, but it would make a lot more sense to simply merge all of the Big East schools into the Big 12 (Louisville, WVU, Cincy, USF, Rutgers and UConn) and if Missouri left go after BYU. That is because most of them already have solid foundations (facilities, amount of alums, etc,) and ESPN has already shown they'll pay more for them than the MWC & CUSA schools you've mentioned (the Big 12 members will not add a 5th Texas school and Memphis in no way takes from the SEC)

The problem with 16 is how much does it affect television revenue? Will their addition to the Big 12 make them more valuable or will it make the Big 12 less valuable? ESPN has been able to get those 6 programs as the BE for a lot cheaper than what the Big 12 wants to be paid.
 

TouchdownCowboys

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Aug 24, 2009
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#19
I don't think 16 is a horrible concept for this league, but it would make a lot more sense to simply merge all of the Big East schools into the Big 12 (Louisville, WVU, Cincy, USF, Rutgers and UConn) and if Missouri left go after BYU. That is because most of them already have solid foundations (facilities, amount of alums, etc,) and ESPN has already shown they'll pay more for them than the MWC & CUSA schools you've mentioned (the Big 12 members will not add a 5th Texas school and Memphis in no way takes from the SEC)

The problem with 16 is how much does it affect television revenue? Will their addition to the Big 12 make them more valuable or will it make the Big 12 less valuable? ESPN has been able to get those 6 programs as the BE for a lot cheaper than what the Big 12 wants to be paid.
TV revenue is affected if more people watch the same games in more TV markets. We all know this by Superbowl ad rates. If you add a low performing UNLV team do more Nevadians watch Bedlam on ABC because there is now local interest. TV advertising dollars pay top dollar for conference packages that lure males 18-49. Example, West Virginia as made multiple BCS games the past few years and will make a 1/3 of what OSU will make this year. This is mainly because the Big East doesn't have a UT type program. A bigger league is not meant to create more games on ABC, but if millions more watch the games it will be worth more money. More teams allow TV to chose from more potential matchups.

Tennesse doesn't want Memphis to be in an AQ conference and have their atheletic budget explode.

ESPN will pay more to keep Texas regardless of who we add.
 
Jul 2, 2004
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#20
TV revenue is affected if more people watch the same games in more TV markets. We all know this by Superbowl ad rates. If you add a low performing UNLV team do more Nevadians watch Bedlam on ABC because there is now local interest. TV advertising dollars pay top dollar for conference packages that lure males 18-49. Example, West Virginia as made multiple BCS games the past few years and will make a 1/3 of what OSU will make this year. This is mainly because the Big East doesn't have a UT type program. A bigger league is not meant to create more games on ABC, but if millions more watch the games it will be worth more money. More teams allow TV to chose from more potential matchups.

Tennesse doesn't want Memphis to be in an AQ conference and have their atheletic budget explode.

ESPN will pay more to keep Texas regardless of who we add.
I think that's the great question. What actually is the magic formula for conferences and TV viewers. Obviously the networks tend to focus on the big names means big ratings. They sure put a lot of UT/Rice type mismatches on whenever they're available and would pass on a OSU/WVU game. So for the networks pushing for small leagues or even better independents would seem the better course. They have about 10-20 teams they really like to put on TV. Why doesn't ESPN/ABC push to get them all out there as independents so they can pay those 20 teams $30M each, and everyone else gets paid $2M if they play them. Instead of paying $1.5B to the conferences they are members of?

Maybe they feel they need to have the competition to drive interest so they can hype up LSU/Vandy until they can convince people they aren't missing something when that is the prime time game instead of Arkansas/South Carolina.

But I don't think it's ever really been studied. What happens if the Big XII were to add a Cincy. That's a big market with a team that has never been the primary draw. We know they don't change the picture brining in East Carolina and South Florida. What happens when OSU and Texas are on the schedule?