What’s the ceiling for Justice Hill?

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Sep 20, 2017
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#41
If you consider any loss to be a choke then it happens to just about every team every year. Saban has found a way to choke in at least 1 game every year of his career except for 1.
To the likes of Central Michigan or KState with a WR at QB? There’s not a comparison. Yes. Teams do always seem to lose a game they shouldn’t. But rarely to teams they are double digit favorites. But if they do, they usually make up for it where Gundy is guaranteed to lose to the top teams in the conference and drop another to a way lessor team. He never beats anyone he shouldn’t outside of Tyreek Hills miracle. He just isn’t good enough.
 

osupsycho

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#43
To the likes of Central Michigan or KState with a WR at QB? There’s not a comparison. Yes. Teams do always seem to lose a game they shouldn’t. But rarely to teams they are double digit favorites. But if they do, they usually make up for it where Gundy is guaranteed to lose to the top teams in the conference and drop another to a way lessor team. He never beats anyone he shouldn’t outside of Tyreek Hills miracle. He just isn’t good enough.
So what you are saying is all losses are to be placed at Gundys feet, and all the good things and even the fact that we are in a place where we can win most of our games he gets no credit for... :blink:
 

Rack

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#45
To the likes of Central Michigan or KState with a WR at QB? There’s not a comparison. Yes. Teams do always seem to lose a game they shouldn’t. But rarely to teams they are double digit favorites. But if they do, they usually make up for it where Gundy is guaranteed to lose to the top teams in the conference and drop another to a way lessor team. He never beats anyone he shouldn’t outside of Tyreek Hills miracle. He just isn’t good enough.
This is just utterly false...Since Gundy was hired as Head coach we are 7th in the country against the spread (ATS)...Since 2008 we are 3rd ATS...So we are actually improving as Gundy's tenure lengthens. Basically this means that since 2008 we have exceeded expectations to the tune of the 3rd best in the country. Completely the opposite of what Jimmy says. We will likely improve even more this year as we will be underrated.

Since 2003
Team
ATS Record Cover % MOV ATS +/-
Temple108-71-160.3%-2.9+2.1
Utah106-76-658.2%9.0+2.9
Ohio State111-81-257.8%17.2+2.5
Stanford107-79-257.5%5.4+2.7
Navy105-79-357.1%6.4+3.4
Oregon105-83-455.9%12.8+0.5
Oklahoma St100-81-355.2%10.2+2.0
Wisconsin104-87-554.4%12.7+2.5
Duke94-79-354.3%-5.1+0.7
Oklahoma107-90-254.3%16.8+1.2
Boise State103-87-154.2%19.4+2.2

Since 2008
Team
ATS Record Cover % MOV ATS +/-
Temple77-47-162.1%5.1+3.7
Stanford81-50-261.8%11.8+4.2
Oklahoma St74-52-158.7%12.8+2.7
Duke70-50-358.3%-0.3+1.8
LA Tech72-53-257.6%5.5+2.1
Ohio State74-56-256.9%18.6+2.7
Central FL71-54-256.8%6.3+1.4
Ohio72-56-256.2%3.7+0.5
Alabama77-61-155.8%22.6+3.3
Oklahoma73-58-155.7%16.5+1.4
 
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Jun 14, 2011
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#46
This is just utterly false...Since Gundy was hired as Head coach we are 7th in the country against the spread (ATS)...Since 2008 we are 3rd ATS...So we are actually improving as Gundy's tenure lengthens. Basically this means that since 2008 we have exceeded expectations to the tune of the 3rd best in the country. Completely the opposite of what Jimmy says. We will likely improve even more this year as we will be underrated.

Since 2003
Team
ATS Record Cover % MOV ATS +/-
Temple108-71-160.3%-2.9+2.1
Utah106-76-658.2%9.0+2.9
Ohio State111-81-257.8%17.2+2.5
Stanford107-79-257.5%5.4+2.7
Navy105-79-357.1%6.4+3.4
Oregon105-83-455.9%12.8+0.5
Oklahoma St100-81-355.2%10.2+2.0
Wisconsin104-87-554.4%12.7+2.5
Duke94-79-354.3%-5.1+0.7
Oklahoma107-90-254.3%16.8+1.2
Boise State103-87-154.2%19.4+2.2

Since 2008
Team
ATS Record Cover % MOV ATS +/-
Temple77-47-162.1%5.1+3.7
Stanford81-50-261.8%11.8+4.2
Oklahoma St74-52-158.7%12.8+2.7
Duke70-50-358.3%-0.3+1.8
LA Tech72-53-257.6%5.5+2.1
Ohio State74-56-256.9%18.6+2.7
Central FL71-54-256.8%6.3+1.4
Ohio72-56-256.2%3.7+0.5
Alabama77-61-155.8%22.6+3.3
Oklahoma73-58-155.7%16.5+1.4
Get out of here with your fancy "logic" and "good and well researched points"! There's no place for that on a message board.
 
Sep 20, 2017
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887
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#47
This is just utterly false...Since Gundy was hired as Head coach we are 7th in the country against the spread (ATS)...Since 2008 we are 3rd ATS...So we are actually improving as Gundy's tenure lengthens. Basically this means that since 2008 we have exceeded expectations to the tune of the 3rd best in the country. Completely the opposite of what Jimmy says. We will likely improve even more this year as we will be underrated.

Since 2003
Team
ATS Record Cover % MOV ATS +/-
Temple108-71-160.3%-2.9+2.1
Utah106-76-658.2%9.0+2.9
Ohio State111-81-257.8%17.2+2.5
Stanford107-79-257.5%5.4+2.7
Navy105-79-357.1%6.4+3.4
Oregon105-83-455.9%12.8+0.5
Oklahoma St100-81-355.2%10.2+2.0
Wisconsin104-87-554.4%12.7+2.5
Duke94-79-354.3%-5.1+0.7
Oklahoma107-90-254.3%16.8+1.2
Boise State103-87-154.2%19.4+2.2

Since 2008
Team
ATS Record Cover % MOV ATS +/-
Temple77-47-162.1%5.1+3.7
Stanford81-50-261.8%11.8+4.2
Oklahoma St74-52-158.7%12.8+2.7
Duke70-50-358.3%-0.3+1.8
LA Tech72-53-257.6%5.5+2.1
Ohio State74-56-256.9%18.6+2.7
Central FL71-54-256.8%6.3+1.4
Ohio72-56-256.2%3.7+0.5
Alabama77-61-155.8%22.6+3.3
Oklahoma73-58-155.7%16.5+1.4
That has nothing to do with what I posted. Smh
 

Rack

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#48
That has nothing to do with what I posted. Smh
Dude, you said, and I quote...

"He never beats anyone he shouldn't outside of Tyreek Hills miracle, he just isn't good enough."
IF that's not enough, your entire post was a claim that Coach Gundy under performs to expectations, which is false.

The "spread" put on games is exactly how the public feels OSU football "should" preform in games (i.e. our expectations). Those facts state that the Oklahoma State Cowboy football team, under Coach Gundy, has actually preformed at the 3rd best rate of ANY college football team in the country against actual expectations since 2008.

So either you can't accept the facts of the matter or you are so blinded by one game a year or some personal vendetta that you really think Gundy sucks. Either way you need to rip the blinders off and deal with the facts. Those facts refute, substantially, the falsehood you are pushing. I'd even say they make your arguments look pathetic.

My advice, take it or leave it, would be for you to take a break from posting...it's always refreshing and gives us a new perspective.
 
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ScooberJake

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Jul 13, 2004
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#49
Like I said, there are many reasons why he won’t even be a candidate, but he could be. But his ceiling is what we are really talking about.
Ok, so in that sense, I could see Hill putting up numbers this year worthy of Heisman discussion. That would require a better performance from the OL as well as maintaining a strong passing attack to keep defenses honest.

I could see it, but I'm not predicting it.
 
Dec 21, 2008
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#52
That was a long post lol

Justice will stay 4 yrs. wants to get his degree. Very important to he and his family

Justice’s #s will be limited at times as we are DEEP at rb. It is better to keep him for the long haul and have a chance at a conf title in a 2-3 team race towards the end then get him banged up when we are up 35.

Gundys philosophy has always been to just “get the win”. This has bit us in the butt numerous times. This is why we like Monken and Holgerson bc they would throw even late in the 4th Q. They went for the throats. Gundy is very low risk average reward. It carries into all aspects, including recruiting.

Justice I don’t think will get the accolades that ISU and ou guys will get bc those teams pad stats. Ou does it for national attention and to say screw the SEC. ISU does it bc they have a hungry coach who wants to prove they belong in the top 4, which they are climbing every year. Osu will never have that killer mentality with Gundy. He has had numerous chances to get us over that jump but his personality and complacency keep up just being a top 25 type team
 

Mfa6677

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#53
Ats does not correlate directly vs expectations. Expectations based on gambling terms would be better using reg season wins over under. And even then it’s still just numbers used by books to bring in action and has less to do with overall expectations. By no means am I taking up for jimmy the Greek but using ats to measure actual expectations is seriously flawed logic and anyone who believes otherwise I’ll gladly Book their action. There are some shitty teams out there that have good ats numbers but don’t meet expectations. Just so happens in this case we have been a team that was still getting favorable odds during our recent success as the general public was and Is slow to come around to betting and having faith in our teams so in this sample size the ats stats can be erroneously used as a stat for perceived positive notion that we’ve exceeded expectations but as stated before it’s just a good measure of covering a spread.
 
Sep 20, 2017
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Texas
#54
That was a long post lol

Justice will stay 4 yrs. wants to get his degree. Very important to he and his family

Justice’s #s will be limited at times as we are DEEP at rb. It is better to keep him for the long haul and have a chance at a conf title in a 2-3 team race towards the end then get him banged up when we are up 35.

Gundys philosophy has always been to just “get the win”. This has bit us in the butt numerous times. This is why we like Monken and Holgerson bc they would throw even late in the 4th Q. They went for the throats. Gundy is very low risk average reward. It carries into all aspects, including recruiting.

Justice I don’t think will get the accolades that ISU and ou guys will get bc those teams pad stats. Ou does it for national attention and to say screw the SEC. ISU does it bc they have a hungry coach who wants to prove they belong in the top 4, which they are climbing every year. Osu will never have that killer mentality with Gundy. He has had numerous chances to get us over that jump but his personality and complacency keep up just being a top 25 type team
Holy crap. Someone actually gets it! It’s sad this post is so spot on. :/
 
Sep 20, 2017
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887
193
45
Texas
#55
Dude, you said, and I quote...

"He never beats anyone he shouldn't outside of Tyreek Hills miracle, he just isn't good enough."
IF that's not enough, your entire post was a claim that Coach Gundy under performs to expectations, which is false.

The "spread" put on games is exactly how the public feels OSU football "should" preform in games (i.e. our expectations). Those facts state that the Oklahoma State Cowboy football team, under Coach Gundy, has actually preformed at the 3rd best rate of ANY college football team in the country against actual expectations since 2008.

So either you can't accept the facts of the matter or you are so blinded by one game a year or some personal vendetta that you really think Gundy sucks. Either way you need to rip the blinders off and deal with the facts. Those facts refute, substantially, the falsehood you are pushing. I'd even say they make your arguments look pathetic.

My advice, take it or leave it, would be for you to take a break from posting...it's always refreshing and gives us a new perspective.
You and the obvious other homers on here just don’t get it. But then again, you didn’t even know we played UT at home so as usual....grain of salt with you is in order.

I really hope I’m wrong about this season and we do reach out potential of 9-10 wins but I seriously can see us losing to any of the following games: BSU, UT, KSU, and TCU and even ISU even though I truly believe we are better. 9-10 wins could and should happen. Hope it does. I’ll even give you 2-1 odds on our wager plus unlimited pitchers because I’ll be so happy if it does.
 
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stonewallpoke

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#56
You and the obvious other homers on here just don’t get it. But then again, you didn’t even know we played UT at home so as usual....grain of salt with you is in order.

I really hope I’m wrong about this season and we do reach out potential of 9-10 wins but I seriously can see us losing to any of the following games: BSU, UT, KSU, and TCU and even ISU even though I truly believe we are better. 9-10 wins could and should happen. Hope it does. I’ll even give you 2-1 odds on our wager plus unlimited pitchers because I’ll be so happy if it does.
First of all, you don't "really hope you're wrong", because then you'd have to admit it.

Secondly, you won't be "so happy", because you will predictably slide over to some other thing to complain about without ever giving credit where credit is due.

Seriously, this schtick was old when you were called bluecollahero. It's still old now.
 
Sep 20, 2017
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#57
First of all, you don't "really hope you're wrong", because then you'd have to admit it.

Secondly, you won't be "so happy", because you will predictably slide over to some other thing to complain about without ever giving credit where credit is due.

Seriously, this schtick was old when you were called bluecollahero. It's still old now.
First of all....if you don’t like it you can stfu and not respond to my posts.

Secondly, Bluecollar was right, unfortunately
 

LakeCowboy

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#60
First of all....if you don’t like it you can stfu and not respond to my posts.

Secondly, Bluecollar was right, unfortunately
I’m not sure you get that I don’t give a damn what you, he or anyone else thinks.

My pleasure
You cared enough to respond to me, and cared enough to tell him what you think he should do w/ your posts. If you didn't care what he thought initially, you wouldn't have had to respond to it.