Watson suspended from team

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Sep 23, 2010
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#61
Dawson and Dillard had been given other times, so it was like 3 strikes with attitude if I remember correctly. And last year want an accusation with a protective order, they were charged and the police had already gotten statements and evidence.
In the case with Watson, there have not been any charges filed and so he has to take a wait and see approach. If charges are filed, then I'd say he's gone.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
I agree with this. But MB likely has the info on this from many different parties. He probably has enough info to make a decision on this if it's bad, bad. Unless Watson is in full blown denial and MB believes him but has to let this all play out.
 
Jun 9, 2008
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#63
Article on Pistols Firing saying District Attorney deciding not to pursue criminal charges on Watson. Seems as of now he’s in the clear, but can’t completely come back until the university title 9 completes their investigation.
 
Sep 3, 2019
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#64
Article on Pistols Firing saying District Attorney deciding not to pursue criminal charges on Watson. Seems as of now he’s in the clear, but can’t completely come back until the university title 9 completes their investigation.
That’s good at least. Hopefully he’s innocent and hopefully this doesn’t follow him around the rest of his life.
 
Apr 7, 2006
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#65
Dont be surprised if he still is dismissed from the team and/or school. The justice system and Title XI are very different. The justice system has a completely different standard and completely different proceedings. A district attorney not filing charges is one piece of a large process to Watson being completely cleared - and keep in mind for the sake of the other party that being cleared isn't a reflection on the other party - it simply means that there isn't enough evidence to corroborate the claim. In my opinion it's important that fans take a very neutral and delicate stance on these kinds of issues, because you're trying to protect both parties. You have to make sure you're not ruining the life of an innocent young man or tarnishing the name of a young lady who may have experienced tremendous trauma.
 

CPTNQUIRK

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Nov 20, 2006
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#67
Dont be surprised if he still is dismissed from the team and/or school. The justice system and Title XI are very different. The justice system has a completely different standard and completely different proceedings. A district attorney not filing charges is one piece of a large process to Watson being completely cleared - and keep in mind for the sake of the other party that being cleared isn't a reflection on the other party - it simply means that there isn't enough evidence to corroborate the claim. In my opinion it's important that fans take a very neutral and delicate stance on these kinds of issues, because you're trying to protect both parties. You have to make sure you're not ruining the life of an innocent young man or tarnishing the name of a young lady who may have experienced tremendous trauma.
Title IX, not XI.
 
Feb 18, 2009
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#68
I’ve sat on two juries and went through vor dire on a third.

- assault and battery with a deadly weapon (guilty)
- stalking/violating a restraining order (foreman, not guilty)
- murder (involving an off duty cop.)

That said, all you should hope and pray you’re never on that stand being judged by your “peers” especially if you’re innocent. The deliberation room is interesting enough before one or two jurors decide they’re ready to leave and either demand a guilty verdict regardless of evidence or worse, just go along with the bullies in the room so they don’t make waves and can go home. 12 Angry Men is a great movie for a reason.

For the DA to come out and state no charges to even be filed is huge.
Makes a title IX result much more difficult but not impossible. I expect him to play this year.
 

Jostate

CPTNQUIRK called me a greenhorn
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Jun 24, 2005
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#69
I’ve sat on two juries and went through vor dire on a third.
-
*Rabbit hole warning*

I was on a jury for a murder trial that got postponed and we were all sent home because the court stenographer's steno machine fritzed out so I didn't get to see the whole process.

One incident I found funny though. We all hear stories of people trying to get dismissed, so they can go back to their lives. There was a guy who made it through the process, almost to the trial, who did something I couldn't decide if he was really goofy or it was all a ruse.

When we were about to be dismissed for lunch the judge asked if anyone had any questions.
One of the jurors raised his hand as asked "Judge who owns that door?" pointing at a random door to the courtroom.
The judge looked confused and said "Well I come and go out this door and you go out that door when you leave for lunch."
So the juror clarified "No who OWNS that door?"
The judge said "Well... I guess the taxpayers of Oklahoma County"

That juror was dismissed 30 seconds after we returned from lunch. I like his style.
 
Jan 21, 2006
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#70
I am confused, but at 74, that's pretty easy. I thought she followed thru with a hospital rape kit, which frequently is not done. If it was positive, it seems to eliminate the "he said, she said" testimony. Is there any info from this angle? Maybe I haven't gotten over the Stillwater police citing me for running a stop sign that was so obscured by tree branches as to be invisible. That was 1967.
 

wrenhal

Territorial Marshal
Aug 11, 2011
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#71
I am confused, but at 74, that's pretty easy. I thought she followed thru with a hospital rape kit, which frequently is not done. If it was positive, it seems to eliminate the "he said, she said" testimony. Is there any info from this angle? Maybe I haven't gotten over the Stillwater police citing me for running a stop sign that was so obscured by tree branches as to be invisible. That was 1967.
If they had consensual relations it would show nothing other than that fact. I would assume that unless it was violent, that is all it would show for a rape also.
There also may have been testimony, that the OSU cops came up with, that might corroborate that she knew they were going to his place alone on purpose. We probably won't know.

I'm honestly worried that a title ix investigation will happen anyway, because tons of guys have been wronged by their procedures at other colleges.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
 
Apr 7, 2006
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#72
The rape kit would demonstrate the force the was used and that the act occurred, but it is incapable of determining consent - which is the central question. There is often not enough evidence to prove , beyond all reasonable doubt, that a crime occurred because it is very difficult (especially when the allegation is made against a friend/acquaintance) to demonstrate to the court whether consent was given and/or whether it was ever revoked.
 

jetman

Federal Marshal
Nov 27, 2004
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#73
I’ve sat on two juries and went through vor dire on a third.

- assault and battery with a deadly weapon (guilty)
- stalking/violating a restraining order (foreman, not guilty)
- murder (involving an off duty cop.)

That said, all you should hope and pray you’re never on that stand being judged by your “peers” especially if you’re innocent. The deliberation room is interesting enough before one or two jurors decide they’re ready to leave and either demand a guilty verdict regardless of evidence or worse, just go along with the bullies in the room so they don’t make waves and can go home. 12 Angry Men is a great movie for a reason.



Makes a title IX result much more difficult but not impossible. I expect him to play this year.
I was on a jury last year and we went to deliberation around 11am. Everyone just wanted to agree and get it over with so they could go to lunch and get on with their lives. I sure hope I never find myself in a court case with a jury.
 
Jul 9, 2011
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Yankees Tavern, Carlos Texas
#74
The rape kit would demonstrate the force the was used and that the act occurred, but it is incapable of determining consent - which is the central question. There is often not enough evidence to prove , beyond all reasonable doubt, that a crime occurred because it is very difficult (especially when the allegation is made against a friend/acquaintance) to demonstrate to the court whether consent was given and/or whether it was ever revoked.
Its my understanding there are some physical indicators whether sex was consensual or forced. I dont know that they are 100% reliable, but they are indicators.
 

Well

Cowboy
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Dec 17, 2009
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#76
Its my understanding there are some physical indicators whether sex was consensual or forced. I dont know that they are 100% reliable, but they are indicators.
rape kits not only look for seimen, but for tears, scratching, bruising, and signs of forced entry, or violent action. Also, the examiner will look for physical signs of force, underneath the fignernails, knuckles for bruising, clothes torn, etc.
 
Apr 7, 2006
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#78
Its my understanding there are some physical indicators whether sex was consensual or forced. I dont know that they are 100% reliable, but they are indicators.
Thats right. This is where the legal standard in a student conduct proceeding compared to criminal case is very important. In a criminal case, the rape kit evidence will establish some basic facts (intercourse occurred, there was damage that took place, etc) but the rape kit alone is generally insufficient because it is possible that it was rough sex, but not criminal- since you must prove guilt beyond all reasonable doubt. In a student conduct hearing the evidence would be presented and the legal standard generally is not 'beyond all reasonable doubt' (not sure about Oklahoma State University code of conduct). Depending on what standard OSU uses you'd simply have to prove using the evidence that it most likely occurred.

In these cases a district attorney has a job to present a case that can be proven beyond all doubt. If they cannot do that, in many cases they don't file charges - regardless of whether it is more likely to have occurred or not. The quote is "better to have 10 guilty persons go free than 1 innocent suffer" and that always seems particularly applicable in sexual assault claims.

There's been a lot of politics and controversy with Title IX over the last 10 years. The Obama and Trump administrations both made changes - so I've got no idea where things sit currently.
 
Jul 9, 2011
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#79
rape kits not only look for seimen, but for tears, scratching, bruising, and signs of forced entry, or violent action. Also, the examiner will look for physical signs of force, underneath the fignernails, knuckles for bruising, clothes torn, etc.
Without getting in to too much detail, there are also bruising patterns. There is almost always some bruising from intercourse, and depending on where the bruising occurs can indicate whether it was consensual or not.