Tucker Carlson: The rise of automation

  • You are viewing Orangepower as a Guest. To start new threads, reply to posts, or participate in polls or contests - you must register. Registration is free and easy. Click Here to register.
Jul 22, 2011
1,530
2,241
743
I don't know what you mean as I didn't bring up "Ivory tower" at all.

What I find is that people like wealthy people more. They see wealthy people as better. They want to be wealthy. They don't seem to think that the wealthy are screwing them while many of them are. And, I'm not talking about the "wealthy" car dealer in town who hires 57 people. I'm not even talking about Bill Gates and Bezos who at least create a product and hire workers. I'm talking about the private equity/financial industries that just seem to pillage money from the economy. It has even happened in my field where it used to be docs forming small groups. Those groups mostly got bought out by companies that took a lot of the income from the docs. Those companies have now been bought out by private equity firms that squeeze every last dollar from health care that they can.

Surely you can see the difference between bureacratically regulated money given to people who jump though the govs hoops like LBJ set up VS a UBI? Economically they are totally different concepts.

As was mentioned in the video, when given a UBI, study after study has shown that the poor do not simply buy meth with it. Do some? Sure, just like some wealthy are Bernie Madoffs. That doesn't mean we get rid of investment firms because there are some Bernie Madoffs. But, the middle fears helping the poor more than helping the rich so the claim you just made will continue, despite all the evidence it is wrong. Of course, if I mention evidence instead of gut feeling, that is a bit ivory tower, isn't it?

Good for you being one of the ones to get out of poverty. I did too. Contrary to your claim, my life was not news or fiction.
My bad. You did not bring up ivory tower. It was CTeam
I get the difference between UBI and the traditional welfare state. It has its advantages. If we could eradicate the public housing and food stamps and the bureaucratic hoops in favor of just cutting everyone a check, that would be fantastic and way more efficient. I just think the end result would be the same: generational poverty caused by government dependence. An academic study in Dauphin, Manitoba isn't going to convince me otherwise.
 

steross

Bookface/Instagran legend
A/V Subscriber
Mar 31, 2004
26,188
31,767
1,743
oklahoma city
My bad. You did not bring up ivory tower. It was CTeam
I get the difference between UBI and the traditional welfare state. It has its advantages. If we could eradicate the public housing and food stamps and the bureaucratic hoops in favor of just cutting everyone a check, that would be fantastic and way more efficient. I just think the end result would be the same: generational poverty caused by government dependence. An academic study in Dauphin, Manitoba isn't going to convince me otherwise.
Getting rid of those things to replace with a UBI is the plan of Andrew Yang. Obviously, nobody knows for certain if it would be change poverty. But, we know most evidence points that way (not just Canada). If our current system was functioning well then no way I would want to risk change. But, our system has caused so much anguish. I'm confused by the idea of ignoring the little evidence that exists and sticking with was has proven to be so damn bad.
 
Jul 25, 2018
1,416
406
163
48
Boulder, CO
Getting rid of those things to replace with a UBI is the plan of Andrew Yang. Obviously, nobody knows for certain if it would be change poverty. But, we know most evidence points that way (not just Canada). If our current system was functioning well then no way I would want to risk change. But, our system has caused so much anguish. I'm confused by the idea of ignoring the little evidence that exists and sticking with was has proven to be so damn bad.
http://fortune.com/2019/02/08/basic-income-finland-employment/

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/09/world/europe/finland-basic-income.html

"Trial participants were generally positive, however, with Tuomas Muraja, a 45-year-old journalist and author, saying the basic income had allowed him to concentrate on writing instead of form-filling or attending jobseekers’ courses.
He said the end of the two-year trial, during which he published two books, had made it difficult again for him to accept commissions, because he could earn only €300 a month without losing any benefits.
“If people are paid money freely that makes them creative, productive and welfare brings welfare,” Mr. Muraja told Reuters about his experience of the pilot."

Finland's results on their 2 year experiment offer no evidence at all that it did anything to change poverty. Participants felt "happier", but few sought employment & lived off of $665/month.
 

steross

Bookface/Instagran legend
A/V Subscriber
Mar 31, 2004
26,188
31,767
1,743
oklahoma city
http://fortune.com/2019/02/08/basic-income-finland-employment/

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/09/world/europe/finland-basic-income.html

"Trial participants were generally positive, however, with Tuomas Muraja, a 45-year-old journalist and author, saying the basic income had allowed him to concentrate on writing instead of form-filling or attending jobseekers’ courses.
He said the end of the two-year trial, during which he published two books, had made it difficult again for him to accept commissions, because he could earn only €300 a month without losing any benefits.
“If people are paid money freely that makes them creative, productive and welfare brings welfare,” Mr. Muraja told Reuters about his experience of the pilot."

Finland's results on their 2 year experiment offer no evidence at all that it did anything to change poverty. Participants felt "happier", but few sought employment & lived off of $665/month.
Yep, what that author talked about is the goal of this shift in method of assistance.

And, reporters are so lazy.

The "initial" results are only on the first year of the two years of data that they have. It was actually supposed to go on longer.

Can you imagine any other government plan where everyone prints articles and tries to make conclusions based on a year? Take Trump's tax cut. Should we stop in in two years and make decisions about it based on initial reports of the first year only?
 

oks10

Territorial Marshal
Sep 9, 2007
7,908
6,662
1,743
Yukon, OK
Can you imagine any other government plan where everyone prints articles and tries to make conclusions based on a year? Take Trump's tax cut. Should we stop in in two years and make decisions about it based on initial reports of the first year only?
You mean like the first month of this year where people were getting "screwed" because their returns dropped from last year and it was all over the news?? Yeah, I can imagine that...
 
Jul 25, 2018
1,416
406
163
48
Boulder, CO
Yep, what that author talked about is the goal of this shift in method of assistance.

And, reporters are so lazy.

The "initial" results are only on the first year of the two years of data that they have. It was actually supposed to go on longer.

Can you imagine any other government plan where everyone prints articles and tries to make conclusions based on a year? Take Trump's tax cut. Should we stop in in two years and make decisions about it based on initial reports of the first year only?
https://medium.com/basic-income/what-is-there-to-learn-from-finlands-basic-income-experiment-did-it-succeed-or-fail-54b8e5051f60



This piece is significantly longer, & delves into the methodology of the study itself. Nonetheless, an interesting read.

I remain skeptical, though, that a UBI as low as the Finns got really makes any headway on the poverty front, & thus does anything to trim bureacracy.

And yes, reporters are lazy, but most of the stuff I've read on this clearly says it's data from year 1.
 

steross

Bookface/Instagran legend
A/V Subscriber
Mar 31, 2004
26,188
31,767
1,743
oklahoma city
You mean like the first month of this year where people were getting "screwed" because their returns dropped from last year and it was all over the news?? Yeah, I can imagine that...
Well, I left off the part where that means that the tax cut goes away, as happened with the UBI.