Tribal gaming compact dispute

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Nov 8, 2007
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Bartlesville
#1
Since we don't have a thread on this, figured I would start one.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/sta...cle_37d2df7a-9774-5a64-ac9b-96bc30d6d3cf.html

OKLAHOMA CITY — The Chickasaw Nation has told the state of Oklahoma that the state cannot audit its gaming operations but can look at prior external audits and records.
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/loc...cle_114ab1db-431f-51a7-9f2d-145ceafb6fb1.html

The tribes paid the Wildlife Department under an arrangement that still allowed the department to benefit from federal matching funds distributed to states based on the number of individual licenses sold. The 2016 compact called for the nation to purchase “a minimum of 50,000 licenses for its Oklahoma resident citizens.”
The Choctaw Nation on Monday said its proposed agreement, including federal funding tied to those purchases, amounted to a potential $4.87 million for the Wildlife Department.
I see this as a big loss for Stitt and even bigger loss for Oklahoma citizens. Relationships with the tribes could be damaged severely. And despite what Stitt claims, I do NOT believe there is a line of commercial gaming companies waiting to build in Oklahoma and pay a 25% tax rate.
 

OP150

John 15:13
Aug 30, 2008
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D2L
#2
Voted for Stitt and I don’t mind this issue at all. The tribes have essentially had it their way and are raking it in. Would open and opportunity for this state to have some funding to function in the 21st Century without having to raise taxes on the citizens.
 
Nov 8, 2007
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Bartlesville
#3
I voted for Stitt as well...I just don't see demanding a 25% tax as "good business".

He says he wants to raise it to 25% because there is ONE other state that charges 25% tax to its tribal casinos. Remember when there was discussion of raising the GPT tax on new oil wells 2% to be in line with what our neighboring states charge? Remember how everyone sh*t their pants over that 2%? So, why is a 15-20% increase ok here?

He campaigned on cutting spending and auditing the state, and I believe this is directly contrary to his campaign and the state's best interests.

Let's play it out like this...
  • The compacts were an agreement that the tribes would have exclusive rights to the gambling business in exchange for paying the staying 5-10% of their revenue depending on the game type .
  • If the compacts really expired yesterday, the tribes don't owe the state anything.
  • If the compacts really expired yesterday, the tribes no longer have exclusive control of the gambling business and commercial casinos can now build.
  • What commercial casino operation is going to build when the market is completely saturated with competition that will not be paying the same tax as them?
Don't get me wrong, competition is a good thing in any business. But I just don't realistically see MGM wanting to build a new casino in Tulsa when there are 3 other major resort style casinos already in operation and will not being paying the same taxes and fees.
 

pokes16

Territorial Marshal
Oct 16, 2003
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Tulsa
#4
I voted for Stitt as well...I just don't see demanding a 25% tax as "good business".

He says he wants to raise it to 25% because there is ONE other state that charges 25% tax to its tribal casinos. Remember when there was discussion of raising the GPT tax on new oil wells 2% to be in line with what our neighboring states charge? Remember how everyone sh*t their pants over that 2%? So, why is a 15-20% increase ok here?

He campaigned on cutting spending and auditing the state, and I believe this is directly contrary to his campaign and the state's best interests.

Let's play it out like this...
  • The compacts were an agreement that the tribes would have exclusive rights to the gambling business in exchange for paying the staying 5-10% of their revenue depending on the game type .
  • If the compacts really expired yesterday, the tribes don't owe the state anything.
  • If the compacts really expired yesterday, the tribes no longer have exclusive control of the gambling business and commercial casinos can now build.
  • What commercial casino operation is going to build when the market is completely saturated with competition that will not be paying the same tax as them?
Don't get me wrong, competition is a good thing in any business. But I just don't realistically see MGM wanting to build a new casino in Tulsa when there are 3 other major resort style casinos already in operation and will not being paying the same taxes and fees.
Ask for 25% settle for 10-15% still a huge raise.
 
Apr 14, 2009
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#5
Shut all of them down.
Casino gambling causes more harm than good.
Especially To the people who can least afford it.

And if you don’t think that the casinos are not a tax on people? Then you’re a nitwit.
 
Nov 8, 2007
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Bartlesville
#6
Ask for 25% settle for 10-15% still a huge raise.
But that's not what he did. It 25% or nothing. In a statement when the dispute first started, he said that he wouldn't accept less because he has had dozens of calls from commercial gaming operations willing to move to Oklahoma and pay 25%.

Which, if that is the case, more power to them. Competition means higher payouts, more jobs, and obviously more tax revenue for the state. However, I believe he was bluffing.
 
Nov 8, 2007
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Bartlesville
#7
Shut all of them down.
Casino gambling causes more harm than good.
Especially To the people who can least afford it.

And if you don’t think that the casinos are not a tax on people? Then you’re a nitwit.
That is a fair argument...however having the compacts expire or having one side refuse to pony up more money, doesn't mean casinos are getting shut down. It means that the state can't collect the fees on them any more.
 

#1 Pokes Fan

Territorial Marshal
Mar 27, 2012
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Wishing I was in Stillwater
#8
Shut all of them down.
Casino gambling causes more harm than good.
Especially To the people who can least afford it.

And if you don’t think that the casinos are not a tax on people? Then you’re a nitwit.
30,000 casino workers to the unemployment line probably won't do anything to the economy. After all, the oilfield jobs will always be around to take up the slack.
 

StillwaterTownie

Federal Marshal
Jun 18, 2010
17,649
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#9
Shut all of them down.
Casino gambling causes more harm than good.
Especially To the people who can least afford it.

And if you don’t think that the casinos are not a tax on people? Then you’re a nitwit.
Well, it's no fun to lose $20 within a minute or so at a casino, and if they got good sense they will immediately get the hell out of there. Their luck isn't worth crap. If not, they're nitwits.
 
Nov 16, 2013
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tractor
#10
There are groups interested in coming in outside the exclusivity agreement with the state. You need to think beyond our current slot machines and table games. The opportunity for sports gambling on the Red River to draw the Dallas and Ft Worth market is absolutely huge. The opportunity to draw sports gambling on the other borders of Oklahoma is also huge. Think of the opportunity in the Chesapeake if a Fan Duel or Draft Kings gets to have the franchise in OKC for sports gambling on NBA within the arena. OKC could be the hub for the all of the internet prop bets.

The tribes are trying to protect their market, no problem with that, but they need to grow the hell up. The gaming agreement did not say "this percentage is good as long as the water flows and the grass grows". We live in a very different world than when this all happened. If Frank Keating and Brad Henry both support the status quo, get rid of both status and quo
 

Well

Cowboy
A/V Subscriber
Dec 17, 2009
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#11
Robert Henry, former 10th Circuit Judge filed a lawsuit in Western District Federal Court last week on behalf of the tribes trying to force Stitt to recognize the automatic renewal provision in the contracts. This could get interesting.
 
Nov 8, 2007
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Bartlesville
#12
There are groups interested in coming in outside the exclusivity agreement with the state. You need to think beyond our current slot machines and table games. The opportunity for sports gambling on the Red River to draw the Dallas and Ft Worth market is absolutely huge. The opportunity to draw sports gambling on the other borders of Oklahoma is also huge. Think of the opportunity in the Chesapeake if a Fan Duel or Draft Kings gets to have the franchise in OKC for sports gambling on NBA within the arena. OKC could be the hub for the all of the internet prop bets.

The tribes are trying to protect their market, no problem with that, but they need to grow the hell up. The gaming agreement did not say "this percentage is good as long as the water flows and the grass grows". We live in a very different world than when this all happened. If Frank Keating and Brad Henry both support the status quo, get rid of both status and quo
The tribes agreed to 11% across the board (all forms of gambling) if sports betting was allowed on property. Stitt said 25% or no deal. The tribes are willing to pay more and make adjustments.

Again, this isn’t a negotiation. Stitt needs to grow the hell up.
 
Nov 16, 2013
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tractor
#13
The tribes agreed to 11% across the board (all forms of gambling) if sports betting was allowed on property. Stitt said 25% or no deal. The tribes are willing to pay more and make adjustments.

Again, this isn’t a negotiation. Stitt needs to grow the hell up.
It's not the percentage they pay he's after it's the exclusivity clause and the percentage. Neither one of them is right. If this does go ugly it's going to cause unforeseen consequences.
 
Nov 8, 2007
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Bartlesville
#14
https://www.newson6.com/story/5f203...ribes-favor-concerning-gaming-compact-dispute

A federal judge ruled in the tribes' favor in a dispute concerning gaming compacts with the state.

The United States District Court for the Western District of Oklahoma ruled the compacts with the State of Oklahoma automatically renewed for an additional 15-year term on Jan. 1, 2020.

The Cherokee Nation, the Chickasaw Nation and the Choctaw Nation filed a lawsuit against Gov. Kevin Stitt after Stitt said the gaming compacts were up for renegotiation after the compacts expired. The tribes said the state renewed the compact automatically according to language in the compact.
 
Jun 20, 2012
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#15
Voted for Stitt and I don’t mind this issue at all. The tribes have essentially had it their way and are raking it in. Would open and opportunity for this state to have some funding to function in the 21st Century without having to raise taxes on the citizens.
Do you feel the same rates should be set for oil and gas?
 
Apr 12, 2020
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Stillwater
#16
There are groups interested in coming in outside the exclusivity agreement with the state. You need to think beyond our current slot machines and table games. The opportunity for sports gambling on the Red River to draw the Dallas and Ft Worth market is absolutely huge. The opportunity to draw sports gambling on the other borders of Oklahoma is also huge. Think of the opportunity in the Chesapeake if a Fan Duel or Draft Kings gets to have the franchise in OKC for sports gambling on NBA within the arena. OKC could be the hub for the all of the internet prop bets.

The tribes are trying to protect their market, no problem with that, but they need to grow the hell up. The gaming agreement did not say "this percentage is good as long as the water flows and the grass grows". We live in a very different world than when this all happened. If Frank Keating and Brad Henry both support the status quo, get rid of both status and quo
I have no idea how any of this works... the current agreement would prevent online sports betting from setting up shop in Oklahoma?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Nov 8, 2007
3,503
1,178
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Bartlesville
#17
I have no idea how any of this works... the current agreement would prevent online sports betting from setting up shop in Oklahoma?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Correct, online sports betting is not permitted with the current agreement.

Which, I can tell you the tribes were all ready to go to the table to negotiate for this to be allowed. We were making preparations (I work for Cherokee Nation Entertainment) for it and everything until Stitt said that he wanted the 25% fee and refused to negotiate because he believed the compacts were about to expire. He thought he was the one holding all the cards. From what made it down the grapevine to me (so take this water cooler talk with a grain of salt because it is certainly not official) is that most tribes were expecting something in the range of 7-11% across the board, but the only number Stitt was ok with was 25%.