This is what happens...

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Aug 16, 2008
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There's always next year!

Or the year after!
This is my 50th anniversary year of being a loyal, committed, insane, Cowboy fan.

Those familiar words above really hurt right now. I’ve heard them now every year for 50 years.


Two observational things I’ll add here about this discussion regarding Gundy:

#1. Colleges with winning traditions fire failing coaches quickly. See OU.

#2. Colleges with less than stellar winning traditions are usually locked and frozen into morbid non-decisive thought about what to do about a current disappointing coach. Afraid to decide they are about whether to stay or go. “Crap or get off the pot” is how we stated it back in the 1970’s.
Leadership is scared to make a decision. Until it’s too late.

OSU is in Category #2.
 

Rack

Legendary Cowboy
Oct 13, 2004
24,289
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This is my 50th anniversary year of being a loyal, committed, insane, Cowboy fan.

Those familiar words above really hurt right now. I’ve heard them now every year for 50 years.


Two observational things I’ll add here about this discussion regarding Gundy:

#1. Colleges with winning traditions fire failing coaches quickly. See OU.

#2. Colleges with less than stellar winning traditions are usually locked and frozen into morbid non-decisive thought about what to do about a current disappointing coach. Afraid to decide they are about whether to stay or go. “Crap or get off the pot” is how we stated it back in the 1970’s.
Leadership is scared to make a decision. Until it’s too late.

OSU is in Category #2.
The key is figuring out why and correcting that...My point is that major changes have to occur to the way recruiting and talent distribution happens within college football in order to level the playing field...OU's a blue blood...they cheated (over a long period of time in the past) to get to that status (car dealership money, over signing to keep talent from other, paying players) and have maintained it due to a participation in an unfair system that rewards blue bloods over and over while smashing the little guy over and over (see NCAA penalty disparity). For example, Look at the structure of the CFP, they have a human committee that can only choose four teams...they have a built in bias to include only teams that will create the most revenue in terms of viewership and those teams are ALWAYS the Blue Bloods because of history, fan base, talent distribution, and indeed cheating originally (50/60/70 years ago) in order to become what they are today. As a non-Blue Blood, this system makes it nearly impossible to get over that hump.

POINT...It's NOT JUST COACHING...get over it, it's WAY bigger than that. How do we fix it KNOWING that it's NOT JUST COACHING? You have had 50 years to come up with some ideas...what are they?
 

PF5

Cowboy
Jan 3, 2014
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The key is figuring out why and correcting that...My point is that major changes have to occur to the way recruiting and talent distribution happens within college football in order to level the playing field...OU's a blue blood...they cheated (over a long period of time in the past) to get to that status (car dealership money, over signing to keep talent from other, paying players) and have maintained it due to a participation in an unfair system that rewards blue bloods over and over while smashing the little guy over and over (see NCAA penalty disparity). For example, Look at the structure of the CFP, they have a human committee that can only choose four teams...they have a built in bias to include only teams that will create the most revenue in terms of viewership and those teams are ALWAYS the Blue Bloods because of history, fan base, talent distribution, and indeed cheating originally (50/60/70 years ago) in order to become what they are today. As a non-Blue Blood, this system makes it nearly impossible to get over that hump.

POINT...It's NOT JUST COACHING...get over it, it's WAY bigger than that. How do we fix it KNOWING that it's NOT JUST COACHING? You have had 50 years to come up with some ideas...what are they?
ncaa ain't gonna change the recruiting rules to help schools that aren't getting 4 and 5 start recruits...2011/12 saw OSU on the cusp of playing for a National Championship, and would have been in BCS playoffs if they were around then...OSU was ranked #4 Big 12 in composite team recruiting rankings from 247 recruiting site, and #25 overall...so it is possible for a non big name to get in the mix...Baylor (#3 and #25 respectively from 247 team recruiting rankings) or TCU (#7 and #43) probably get into playoffs in 2014/15 if Big12 had championship game...Washington (#6 in Pac12 and #29 overall from 247) made playoffs in 2016/17...anyway, in order for OSU to get into playoff mix they have to win Big12, which means beating ou, which means Gundy has to go OR change how he coaches in Bedlam, which is tentative, unimaginative, scared, not to lose, etc.
 
Feb 18, 2009
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After seeing something like a dozen openers have been covid cancelled already, I wonder how much we will see us at full strength or anyone else. This is going to be a weird season
Agreed. But even in a shortened season we’re going to realize what he can or can’t do with this lineup. Only a handful of coaches ever get to have the best player in America on their team. If he screws this up like he has a couple of other seasons then he’s not somebody I would be touting as a win for Coach holder.
 

Rack

Legendary Cowboy
Oct 13, 2004
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You do remember that we beat Alabama less than 20 years ago and about the same time, Clemson was a middle of the pack team as well? They hired big, spent big and recruited well. We cannot match the overall spending, but it is a relatively small step from a Gundy salary to the top...much bigger than an entry-level salary to where he is now. Despite no longer being the Belle of the ball, BPS and the facilities are nothing to sneeze at.

I would never want any rules about purported "balancing" of recruits. Every kid should have the ability to go to whatever school they want. We need to figure out what it takes to get better kids to BPS. If we can get one, two should be possible. If two, then the third and before long.... IMO Gundy dropped the ball in 2009-2013 by not capitalizing on the rise. That was the opportunity to take OSU to the next step. Now we have to start over further away from the goal.
Well, we, unfortunately, we just aren't Clemson neither geographically NOR in terms of how they are aligned in state with the other big school. Clemson is halfway between two major metro areas in Charlotte and Atlanta...The other school in the state, South Carolina, is in a different conference SEC (this would be ideal if we could swing it and I was hopeful when they were looking at the SEC that we would go to the PAC west). Plus when they EXPANDED their stadium they had success, after 2011, we stayed flat and didn't expand the stadium. I think they currently draw about like ou...they had a national title in 1981 and lots more football history than we have had to build off of. Heck John Heisman himself literally coached there to start their history...so , besides the small town, it's just not really that comparable to our football history. They are steeped in football tradition...the rock, the gathering, the graveyard...it goes on and on. We are more MUCH comparable to KSU and ISU than we like to admit....but that's the truth.
 
Sep 29, 2011
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Both. I have been a Gundy defender until last night. Now, after watching us run out the clock until halftime and punting on 4th down when we are down in the 4th, it’s time for a change.

my fear is we let Gundy go, or Gundy decides to retire, and holder gets to pick some no talent a** clown who he can get cheap and they won junior college division 2a regionals, but they ate pinto beans and cornbread at Holders house and “aw shucks, he just had a great way about him”.

Holder needs to move on too. He did great building the athletic village, now it’s time to sail off to karsten creek and enjoy leisure...
Gundy do not have to go.

Let him manage the team, but get a real OC that have some young swagger and not someone from within oSu that he can dictate.
Do you even understand assistant coaches (at every school) don’t do what they want, they do what the HC endorses?


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Sep 29, 2011
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Here's a civil conversation.
Do you think that college football will ever seek to REALLY level the playing field between blue bloods like ou and non-Blue Bloods but good programs like Oklahoma State and many others who flounder on the edge but see no way to achieve that due to many factors like history, money, fanbase, status and recruiting because of those things?

Do you ever think that attempts at leveling the playing field will restrict numbers of 5 star recruits to blue bloods or create a mandatory EQUAL distribution of highly rated five star recruits like the nfl attempts, equal distribution of conference TV and bowl money as we become more and more like an nfl junior.. IF that was to happen, how do you see that playing out?

My guess is that you, being a blue blood team fan, don't want the kind of change that would bring more equality and equity to the college game, even thought it would actually bring more excitement across the board for more teams.

Do you take pride in a system you didn't have anything to do with creating and one that is unfairly biased against teams wanting to break into that old school system? OR do you,, like so many others, just mindlessly root for a team because they win and you are a @TypicalGooner ;-)...never attending ou?
Clemson made a great hire. Built itself up in a weak conference (ala the Big 12). And look at them now. It can happen. They made themselves into a blue blood in the last decade from essentially nothing. All with a guy with zero connections to Clemson. Dabo went to Bama for crying out loud. I think more parity exists now in college football than it ever has to be honest.

OSU has held onto the same toad hoping it’ll turn into a prince for the better part of two decades. That’s y’all’s fault.

I don’t mindlessly root for anyone. I grew up watching football. My grandpa went to OU and I used to watch games with him as a kid. I grew up with it during the freaking 90’s. I love everything about college football. I’ve been to Notre Dame, West Point and The Shoe. OU wasn’t playing at any of those stadiums at the time. It’s purely the love of the atmosphere and the game. I received a scholarship from a different college that actually reflects the career path I wanted to take. I didn’t even apply to OU. As a matter of fact, I almost went to OSU but decided not to run for FFA state office. It wouldn’t have changed who I root for on Saturday anyway.

It’s truly sad you have the need to degrade someone’s college affiliation when it comes to football anyway. And you say I mindlessly root for a school. You can’t take blinders off for two seconds to have a civil conversation without getting personal. About a game.


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At least you’re honest about your handle.


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Nov 16, 2013
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Well, we, unfortunately, we just aren't Clemson neither geographically NOR in terms of how they are aligned in state with the other big school. Clemson is halfway between two major metro areas in Charlotte and Atlanta...The other school in the state, South Carolina, is in a different conference SEC (this would be ideal if we could swing it and I was hopeful when they were looking at the SEC that we would go to the PAC west). Plus when they EXPANDED their stadium they had success, after 2011, we stayed flat and didn't expand the stadium. I think they currently draw about like ou...they had a national title in 1981 and lots more football history than we have had to build off of. Heck John Heisman himself literally coached there to start their history...so , besides the small town, it's just not really that comparable to our football history. They are steeped in football tradition...the rock, the gathering, the graveyard...it goes on and on. We are more MUCH comparable to KSU and ISU than we like to admit....but that's the truth.
They didn't get see their growth until after Terry Don went there. Their model is possible here, it just takes not puking down your shirt when you play your opossing instate schools
 
Oct 29, 2016
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They didn't get see their growth until after Terry Don went there. Their model is possible here, it just takes not puking down your shirt when you play your opossing instate schools
Correction: all it takes is to hire Leach when nobody in collegiate football knew anything about his offense and how to stop it, win a national championship because nobody knew how in the hell to stop that offense. The 5 and 4 star players would come in droves. See: OU
 
Nov 21, 2018
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I think what we all want is the old Gundy from when he gave the “I’m a man” rant. He cared about his players, they were motivated to play hard for him. I didn’t feel like he was scared of OU back then. As he’s matured, he’s become more complacent. Even to the point where he doesn’t even know the players names. As seen in Our Time: “Why isn’t number #0 in the game?” C’mon man, that’s freaking LD Brown, one of your best players. Show him some respect. Gundy has lost his luster, I hope he’s willing to dig deep and find some part of his old self. These players deserve better. It’s one thing to only beat your rival 10% of the time, but it’s another to not give a sh$t....or at least come off as you don’t.


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