This! (is a thread political in nature about racism and sports)

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steross

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#21
The problem with this analogy is that most likely, "YOU" do not influence the outcome of the Bedlam football game in any way. You DO have the ability to take advantage of free public education, public libraries, free podcasts, develop your work ethic and skills and take advantage of all opportunities offered. Take a job, any job, to develop a work history, etc. And if you are getting paid $20 per hour while a coworker makes double that, after some soul searching to make certain that he / she is not actually twice a valuable to the employer, you have the freedom to seek another employer.
What do you mean I do not influence the bedlam outcome in any way? Only by choice. I was an OSU student. I had the opportunity to be incredibly good at football by training like crazy when I was in elementary school. I had the opportunity to become super wealthy and donate huge amounts of money to make the football team better. I simply did not take advantage of those opportunities given to me, right?

If the only difference in outcomes between white Americans and African Americans is the individual deciding to take advantage of the opportunities given to them, why is there such a stark difference in the number of those that take advantage?
 

osupsycho

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#22
What do you mean I do not influence the bedlam outcome in any way? Only by choice. I was an OSU student. I had the opportunity to be incredibly good at football by training like crazy when I was in elementary school. I had the opportunity to become super wealthy and donate huge amounts of money to make the football team better. I simply did not take advantage of those opportunities given to me, right?

If the only difference in outcomes between white Americans and African Americans is the individual deciding to take advantage of the opportunities given to them, why is there such a stark difference in the number of those that take advantage?
I am not saying this is the only answer, but culture plays a big part in that. For example why are asians (including asian americans) much more successful in science and math careers? Is their race and looks really giving them an advantage over other skin colors? Maybe, but I would more likely say it is due to the culture of learning and studying in those fields, that are more heavily emphasized by that culture. So on the opposite of that you have african americans whose culture is usually not one that pushes and rewards taking advantage of opportunities to work hard or learn more. Their culture in fact is usually pushing sports and music as the future best possible options.

Personally I have no issue with giving reparations if they are in the form of creating more opportunities for people of color. Not hand outs but more of a hand up for those that are willing to put it to use. But currently it seems like reparations are nothing more than just a way to get votes.
 

steross

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#24
I am not saying this is the only answer, but culture plays a big part in that. For example why are asians (including asian americans) much more successful in science and math careers? Is their race and looks really giving them an advantage over other skin colors? Maybe, but I would more likely say it is due to the culture of learning and studying in those fields, that are more heavily emphasized by that culture. So on the opposite of that you have african americans whose culture is usually not one that pushes and rewards taking advantage of opportunities to work hard or learn more. Their culture in fact is usually pushing sports and music as the future best possible options.

Personally I have no issue with giving reparations if they are in the form of creating more opportunities for people of color. Not hand outs but more of a hand up for those that are willing to put it to use. But currently it seems like reparations are nothing more than just a way to get votes.
But, look at what has shaped that culture. Where did African American culture come from?
 

osupsycho

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#25
But, look at what has shaped that culture. Where did African American culture come from?
The sports culture I would say comes from a real physical advantage that has allowed them to dominate any sport they push toward. As far as the rapper or entertainer portion of the culture, that did come out of the ghetto so to speak, and could be claimed is due to their less advantaged circumstances. But how is that any different than country music coming from the rural areas? I don't see many farmers or rural people pushing their children to try and move into country music as a means of a future. Now it could be argued that this African American culture pushed these areas as they saw them as the ONLY way of escape, but then it just becomes a self fulfilling prophesy. And if that is the case then would it not make more sense to try and help change that culture instead of just giving more handouts?
 

steross

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#26
The sports culture I would say comes from a real physical advantage that has allowed them to dominate any sport they push toward. As far as the rapper or entertainer portion of the culture, that did come out of the ghetto so to speak, and could be claimed is due to their less advantaged circumstances. But how is that any different than country music coming from the rural areas? I don't see many farmers or rural people pushing their children to try and move into country music as a means of a future. Now it could be argued that this African American culture pushed these areas as they saw them as the ONLY way of escape, but then it just becomes a self fulfilling prophesy. And if that is the case then would it not make more sense to try and help change that culture instead of just giving more handouts?
I think the culture issues you are talking about are a result, not a cause.
 

osupsycho

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#27
I think the culture issues you are talking about are a result, not a cause.
Possible but even so I think my main point remains, if you do not make a push to change that culture just giving money will not change anything. In fact it could actually make things worse as it could mean less motivation to make things better. To me any reparations that are just given out freely are just a way to assuage guilt and more likely to buy votes. It is not designed to truly help those it is being given too.
 

steross

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#28
Possible but even so I think my main point remains, if you do not make a push to change that culture just giving money will not change anything. In fact it could actually make things worse as it could mean less motivation to make things better. To me any reparations that are just given out freely are just a way to assuage guilt and more likely to buy votes. It is not designed to truly help those it is being given too.
Yea, as I said, I’m not really in favor of reparations because I have not yet heard of a plan that makes sense. I just don’t think the “I’m not paying for past mistakes” argument is a good one.
I think the culture changes when the cause of the culture changes. If anything, many of the programs of the past few decades have compounded it instead of reducing it.
 

CocoCincinnati

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#29
He was charged with resisting arrest and was found not guilty.
.....

But Sefolosha, insisting on his innocence, demanded to go to trial. My colleague Elie’s theory: “Sefolosha’s not from here — he’s Swiss — so he might actually have expected a ‘fair trial.'” And in the end, it appears that he got one. The trial lasted four days; the jury deliberated for under an hour before acquitting Sefolosha of all charges.
Like I said, I find it hard to believe that a police officer would break a persons leg for no reason. I find it much more likely for such an injury to occur during a physical altercation.....and by altercation I mean both people going at it, not one person flinging a compliant person to the ground. That is not in any way an exoneration of the officer or a condemnation of Sefolosha...I was not there and I don't know the character of either person...just stating, I doubt it's as black and white (forgive the pun) as this story makes it sound.
 

steross

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#30
Like I said, I find it hard to believe that a police officer would break a persons leg for no reason. I find it much more likely for such an injury to occur during a physical altercation.....and by altercation I mean both people going at it, not one person flinging a compliant person to the ground. That is not in any way an exoneration of the officer or a condemnation of Sefolosha...I was not there and I don't know the character of either person...just stating, I doubt it's as black and white (forgive the pun) as this story makes it sound.
Have you never seen the videos of people getting the crap beat out of them while trying to be compliant? It happens.

All it would take is one swing of a billy club to break a fibula. It doesn't need to be an altercation at all.
And, seriously, do you think a millionaire Swiss basketball player would get in a fight with the police, get offered a no-plea bargain that all he has to do is avoid any further issues for 6 months, and then turn it down to go to trial? Why on earth would he risk his career going to trial if he fought the police? No, that is something you would only do if you were innocent and pissed. The idea that he figured he could lie his way through a trial for no reason at all is the hard to believe theory.

We have a friend of the family that is poor, black, but one of the nicest, God-fearing, most trustworthy people you have ever seen. When he tells me the issues he has had when stopped by the police I believe every word he says. The idea that black and white people are treated the same and the difference is always compliance is simply fantasy.
 
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