The rich paying their fair share

  • You are viewing Orangepower as a Guest. To start new threads, reply to posts, or participate in polls or contests - you must register. Registration is free and easy. Click Here to register.

Jonkr06

Territorial Marshal
Aug 18, 2007
7,380
2,974
1,743
Katy, TX
#41
The richest of the rich? In general, yes, I do believe that. Convince me otherwise if you disagree.

As I already pointed out, I am not referring to the 'rich' who make $250K/year. Those, for the most part, are honest hard-working people just like the rest of us. Stand up for them because they're the ones getting screwed by footing more and more of the bill with hard-earned dollars that actually affect their livelihood.
The billionaires you're talking about are few and far between. If I remember right, from the Millionaire Next Door, over 85% of millionaires are self made, first generation millionaires who live well within their means. Now, I will concede that living well within your means is getting much harder to do now-a-days, but I think the point remains.
Agreed. Millionaire status is something I think many on here strive for and can actually achieve with hard work and discipline. Not the group I was referring to though.
 

ksupoke

We don't need no, thot kuntrol
A/V Subscriber
Feb 16, 2011
12,050
16,371
743
dark sarcasm in the classroom
#43
It doesn’t matter what financial stratosphere you’re in, taxation is theft. If you make $40k, $300k, or $1b or more you should not pay a federal income tax on what you earn. Fairness is always going to be seen through the eyes of the author and published with the color of their emotion.
That’s why I’m a proponent of either the fair tax as has been explained here in more threads than those calling for the job of MY or the death tax & foreign funds transfer fee, as was explained in a prior post, it’s ‘fair’ and it’s not an aggression since you cannot legally own property after death (you actually don’t own any property in the US but that’s for another thread) and foreign transfers are voluntary and carry no penalty if you don’t transact them.
But
To ignore the wealth creation of principle shareholders by way of gvt benefits to both their employees and the companies themselves either through grants or other financial vehicles, is to say it’s not ok to help the less fortunate but it’s fine to pad the wallets of the wealthy, seems a bit backward to me but again that’s just me.
To add: I’ve benefited greatly at the expense of the taxpayers I’m guessing most of you have as well but I won’t speak for anyone else, even though I’ve benefited I see it as entirely wrong.
 
Last edited:

Brad M

Wrangler
Jan 16, 2017
95
94
68
55
Wisconsin
#44
Oh, really? I wonder why Trump won't release his tax returns and now who else won't do it is Trump Jr, Oklahoma Republican candidate for governor, Kevin Stitt. I'm certainly not voting for him.
This is a legitimate question, not meant as an attack but what makes you feel entitled to see his tax return? or the tax return of anybody else? My thinking is, that's between the individual and the IRS. It should be made public if the IRS determines there has been fraudulent behavior by an elected official (by "it" I mean the fraudulent behavior) but their tax return should remain private.
 
Jul 20, 2018
1,478
222
143
77539
#47
So what? if Trump and Stitt released their tax returns and it shows they haven't paid any federal and state income taxes for years, you'd still vote for them.
But you already know from the leaked Trump returns that he pays more in taxes in one year than you'll make in 10 lifetimes. You can't seem to quite grasp that fact.
 

StillwaterTownie

Federal Marshal
Jun 18, 2010
16,566
2,165
743
Where else but Stillwater
#48
This is a legitimate question, not meant as an attack but what makes you feel entitled to see his tax return? or the tax return of anybody else? My thinking is, that's between the individual and the IRS. It should be made public if the IRS determines there has been fraudulent behavior by an elected official (by "it" I mean the fraudulent behavior) but their tax return should remain private.
I certainly don't feel entitled to see his tax returns. But other candidates release their tax returns. How about being fair?
 

StillwaterTownie

Federal Marshal
Jun 18, 2010
16,566
2,165
743
Where else but Stillwater
#51
To add: I’ve benefited greatly at the expense of the taxpayers I’m guessing most of you have as well but I won’t speak for anyone else, even though I’ve benefited I see it as entirely wrong.
You paid taxes. Got a great return in doing so by benefiting greatly. You certainly shouldn't see it as wrong. You say taxation is theft, but a voluntary tax system would only create an even greater lack of fairness.

I don't see the nation adopting the Fair Tax. As much as so many people love Trump, I wish he would become obsessed with it and always hawking it. The problem is not enough rich people support the Fair Tax, even though they would benefit from it.
 
Last edited:

CocoCincinnati

Federal Marshal
Feb 7, 2007
16,483
23,855
1,743
Tulsa, OK
#52
So what? if Trump and Stitt released their tax returns and it shows they haven't paid any federal and state income taxes for years, you'd still vote for them.
I didn't vote for Trump the first time and I still haven't decided whether to vote for him next time. I haven't decided on Stitt yet either, I'll have to see what I think of Powell first and how the state is polling. However, if it is revealed that any of them committed a crime, which tax evasion is, then sorry to disappoint you but that would most definitely affect my vote. Unlike you though, I don't think a person releasing their private tax returns should be a prerequisite for holding public office

Les me add that I have no doubt Trump used every loophole in the book to pay less taxes, which is precisely what you and the rest of the left are after by demanding the release of these documents. However, I don't blame Trump for using loopholes, I blame the loophole and the politicians who created them (Reps and Dems both).
 

StillwaterTownie

Federal Marshal
Jun 18, 2010
16,566
2,165
743
Where else but Stillwater
#53
The problem with "fair" is it is a moral term, and no two people are ever going to agree on it, that is unless they approach from the same ethical worldview. Thus, talking about taxes in terms of "fair" is pure bullspit at the outset. You are falling into a trap by using the term. The question isn't about "fairness" it is about funding the essential functions of the government efficiently. And our government spends money on things so far beyond its essential functions that it is simply unbelievable.

For fiscal year 2017
Federal revenues: $3.316 trillion
Federal spending: $3.982 trillion
Deficit: $665 billion
Debt: $20.24 trillion

I've asked this question before and have never gotten anything close to a satisfactory answer, with federal revenues in excess of $3 trillion, why isn't that enough?
Rich pay greater than their fair share of taxes. Really? Interesting how the tax codes and business regulations didn't block them from being rich. No wonder. The poor get their food stamps and subsidized housing. The rich get their corporate welfare and tax write offs. What's not fair about that?
 
Sep 22, 2018
9
1
3
24
Tulsa
#54
The income tax should be eliminated and a consumption tax added to take its place. The basic essentials of life such as unprepared food and medicine should not be taxed at all. The tax should move up and down with the cost of federal government's business annually based on a balanced budget amendment.
I see you are a FairTax supporter!
 

CocoCincinnati

Federal Marshal
Feb 7, 2007
16,483
23,855
1,743
Tulsa, OK
#56
Are you ignorant of the fact Trump's leaked tax returns were only from 2005? We don’t know whether he’s paid taxes since then.
Do you actually believe that someone like Trump could go a decade without paying any taxes without the IRS charging him with tax evasion. You can be certain that Obama's IRS went over his finances with a fine tooth comb leading up to the election, and especially right after it. If there was even the appearance of impropriety in his tax returns, it would have been "leaked".
 

SLVRBK

Johnny 8ball's PR Manager
Staff
A/V Subscriber
Oct 16, 2003
14,073
5,116
1,743
Katy, TX
#57
Rich pay greater than their fair share of taxes. Really? Interesting how the tax codes and business regulations didn't block them from being rich. No wonder. The poor get their food stamps and subsidized housing. The rich get their corporate welfare and tax write offs. What's not fair about that?
The underlined part really stuck out to me...do you believe this is the role the tax code and gov't regulation should play?
 

llcoolw

Territorial Marshal
Feb 7, 2005
5,569
3,165
1,743
Sammamish, Washington.Dallas, Texas.Maui, Hawaii
#58
Rich pay greater than their fair share of taxes. Really? Interesting how the tax codes and business regulations didn't block them from being rich. No wonder. The poor get their food stamps and subsidized housing. The rich get their corporate welfare and tax write offs. What's not fair about that?
You're right. It's not fair. Not fair at all. 50% of this country pays 3% of the taxes. I'm willing to bet that the same 50% paying 3% of the taxes, are the same 50% taking more than 3% of federal help. Furthermore, that same group is demanding that the top 50% aren't paying enough in taxes. I'm also willing to bet that the country could be divided by the same numbers, the top 50% workers lean torwards Trump and the second tier 50% lean torwards the Dems. Sure there's some rich in certain fields who can afford to vote with Hollywood and there's some poor who aspire to be rich and vote with Wall Street. And what do you know? 66,000,000 voted left in 2016 and 63,000,000 voted right. Top 50% and the bottom 50%. I guess the top 50% could go ahead and pay another 3% and pay all the taxes but would that stop the war drums? Very doubtful. The lower 50% wanted Bernie Sanders. Remember? An extra 3% paid for by the top 50% of earners will come no where close to paying what he proposed. So even if the top half of the country paid all the taxes ( 97% is pretty close) it wouldn't even cover half of the proposals that the left covets.
Why is it fair that my family pays more than half of its income to taxes and still be chastised for not doing enough while a family of equal size a mile away paid zero in tax. Had their utility bills covered, their home energized (made energy efficient ), new windows, new door handles, free light bulbs and electric outlets. Free dental. Free baby food. Free family food. Free cell phones. Even spending money. They even get tax returns. TAX RETURNS for paying in nothing! There's so much more too. I could go into free counseling, free school breakfast and lunch. There's so many programs and so much money available it's not funny anymore. Yet, we aren't doing enough. We aren't being fair?
 
May 21, 2007
498
214
1,593
Tulsa, OK
#59
It's funny how when conservatives want to talk about morals liberals are all "we can legislate morals" but when liberals want to legislate morals they want "fairness" and have no problems with legislating their morals.
Their is some truth in your quote. Right or wrong, 'a lot' liberal come by the morals honestly and own them.

'A lot' of conservatives pick and choose their morals based on a 2,000 year-old book... use the book as scapegoat for their beliefs instead of owning them... and then have no problems with legislating their morals.

Republicans would have all consuming power if they could shake the crazy religion monkey from their back.
 
May 21, 2007
498
214
1,593
Tulsa, OK
#60
I always find it interesting how often this board defends the rich. Must have a lot of high rollers on here.
It ALWAYS shocks me as these conversations come up. There are people in the US with wealth that my brain can even comprehend and this BOARD will defend them like they are the ROYALTY of AMERICA.

It boggles the mind?

I think people are more pissed at the people that are poor and don't pay taxes. It seems like an 'attach' on the wealthy folks is a opportunity to rip on the poor.

The whole dang system is designed around the Wealthy.... to keep them wealthy and to obtain more wealth. That is why they should pay more. They 'benefit' the most by the way the whole capital system is designed.

Spending need to be reigned in big time too.