Texas Bowl vs aTm

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Rack

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Oct 13, 2004
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To address Birry's post about going pro early...
Yep, I'm old school. I do think that a young man who receives free school, room and board, major trips all over the country to play football, and star power DOES owe something to the school they received those (well over $100,000) benefits and a spotlight from. I certainly also see it as the athletes choice to honor that commitment. I understand that NFL money might be a once in a lifetime deal IF, and that's a big IF for a VERY few people, it's available. I also understand that schools like OSU can offer insurance policies against injury and help families if their student athlete get's hurt on his way to millions...So yes I'd prefer guys stay and honor the commitment that the school has made to them...PLUS I don't like the NFL at all as I believe big money kills sport and it's attractiveness (it's starting to do that with college as well). So yeah, it's ALWAYS my preference that guys stay and play out their years at OSU...and IMHO it ought to be every fans preference. Certainly with exceptions like Barry Sanders and a Dez are understandable and make sense, but they don't always and that's why you see many of them stay. It didn't hurt either Rudolph or Washington in terms of NFL money (it helped). I wouldn't be surprised if one or both of Wallace and Hubbard stay and I wouldn't be surprised if one or the other leaves.
 
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Aug 7, 2006
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What about Brown? He still working at UNC? Gundy beat him in 2010, 11, and 13, before he got ushered out.
A lot of people beat Texas in those years, that's why Mack was ushered out. He's admitted he made plenty of errors in the latter years that led to the program bottoming out. I'm glad we took advantage and started beating them more often than we lose to them though.
 

Rack

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Rack-I encourage you to sit down w a college athlete and ask them what their day and week consists of. Yes they get a free education but they pay a huge price. For football it’s not just the 20 hours a week of practice and the game but meetings and film and study hall and if they are hurt and dinged up they have recovery/rehab. They also have at least 12 hours of class. I would bet the average hrs/week on the 2 deep approaches 60 if not more. Then throw in aching shoulders, ankles, knees, & backs. Plus the university is making $ off these kids in ways that didn’t happen 20-30 years ago.

To me it’s the same as an employer who spends hours training an employee. Maybe even pays for them to go back to college or get a post grad degree. That employee leaves 2 yrs later for more $ at another shop and nobody expects the employee to pay back the business.

Let’s use Chuba as an example. Running backs don’t last many years in the NFL. He really only has 1 year of college hits and wear on his body. If he can go to college, excel & then leave to go make millions then power to him.

I am not for paying college athletes or letting them profit off their likeness while in school. To me is the trade off of them leaving early to go pro and make $. Should be allowed in any sport at any time after the completion of their season regardless of classification.
Certainly high performers are the exception to the rule and yes it's about making money for a few guys, but MOST by far are there to play college ball with no future in the nfl...btw, I'm very aware of what college athletes do. I'm not going to have an issue with folks who leave early, but if we can mitigate the risk and keep them I'm all for that first and foremost. I'm an OSU fan...NOT an nfl fan. and yes I want what's best for the kids...and that's not ALWAYs money....see Justin Blackmon.
 

Rack

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A lot of people beat Texas in those years, that's why Mack was ushered out. He's admitted he made plenty of errors in the latter years that led to the program bottoming out. I'm glad we took advantage and started beating them more often than we lose to them though.
Yes in 2012 they were very bad but in 2011 and 2013 they went 8-4 and beat OU, losing to us and Baylor, Ole Piss, and Oregon...and an outlier to BYU in 13. In hind site Texas might have been better off keeping him. They didn't "bottom out" until they hired Strong...then they bottomed out.
 

Birry

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Feb 6, 2007
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I guess the previous staff was as well? Cause he beat them too with far lessor rated talent. He also beat the staff before that one...maybe ushering it's demise even.
Indeed. Texas is a mess, and they haven't had a good coach there in a while. Coaching makes a huge difference. If they ever get it figured out, then they'll right back up there with uo year in and year out.
 
Jun 12, 2007
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First off - it is 100% Hubbard's decision, and I won't be upset either way he goes. But some of our fans (maybe you?) act like playing in the bowl game is noble, and that if he doesn't play, its some indictment on him as a person. Such a mindset seems very selfish and immature. Given his abilities and the stats to back them up, I personally see no reason that he should stay. Simply put - he has nothing to gain and everything to lose from playing a bowl game, and I wouldn't be surprised or upset if he decided to sit it out.

That's what I think about Hubbard. But that doesn't mean that I believe all players should do that. I thought Josh Stewart's decision to go pro was a bad move. I thought Rudolph needed all the time he could get, because he was still struggling with footwork and reading defenses. JW was similar to Hubbard in that I believe he could have gone a year earlier, but obviously decided to stay.

It seems like you're saying that its more noble for a kid to choose playing in a bowl game so a bunch of a fans can have a fun trip, and bowl owners/TV networks can profit handsomely versus a kid choosing to do what's best for their career/family. Seems really messed up if you ask me.

Your last sentence is a great example of why we disagree so often. You just don't/can't see why myself and others are upset. Its not about the W-L record.
1. I support players going pro if they choose to. Its their life. Its irrelevant if their choice helps or hurts OSU. OSU is a freaking corporation that's out to profit from the NCAA football money machine. The player is a human being that has their own complicated priorities. I'll support the player over our program nearly every time.
2. Since Monken left, we've basically run 7 plays on offense and had zero creativity or progressive philosophy. We can win against inferior or sometimes equal opponents, because we often have a guy like James Washington, Justice Hill, Tylan Wallace, and Chuba Hubbard - guys that can literally out-athlete people to win one-on-one battles. That approach just can't hang with teams that land 4-5* recruits and out-athlete our stud skill players. So right off the bat, our scheme kills any chance we have of winning our conference or getting into the CFB Playoff. Zero chance unless uo were to have some major meltdown or something. Even our record-setting QBs haven't been very good in the grand scheme. Want proof? Name a QB from the Mike Gundy era that has had success in the NFL. I'll wait.

So.....I believe Gundy has built a scheme that basically gives us zero chance against more talented teams, and if our goal is to win the Big 12 or better, then he's holding us back.
Two things....you ask what he has to gain for playing in the bowl. A higher draft position which is more money. Using your logic, Chubba should have just quit playing after the 5th game since it became apparent he was pretty good and didn't want to risk getting hurt. OSU has given him the platform and the opportunity to be in the position of playing in the NFL. The other players on the team give him the opportunity to showcase his skills. They open up the holes for him. The block for him. So yes, Chubba should have some allegiance to OSU and his teammates. They all helped him get to this position. Chubba did not do it all by himself.
 
Sep 16, 2004
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So.....I believe Gundy has built a scheme that basically gives us zero chance against more talented teams, and if our goal is to win the Big 12 or better, then he's holding us back.
I found this on a Razorback forum where they would LOVE to have Gundy:

One of the best coaches in the country.
9-3 in bowls.
7 top-25 finishes.
29-35 against ranked opponents.
13 consecutive winning seasons.
Six 10+ win seasons.
4-4 against the SEC.

OSU finished ranked 6 times in their entire history prior to Gundy.

BUT ... I doubt he has any interest whatsoever in leaving OSU.


If I did my math right, Gundy wins 45% of his games against ranked opponents. Not sure how many of those were more talented teams, but it shows he has established a system that competes very well with the top talent in the nation. He just hasn’t gotten over the hump with OU, but neither has anyone else.

So, honestly, it seems like you come up with reasons why Gundy is so bad without any research or evidence. It really seems like it boils down to:
  1. He doesn’t beat OU enough (who does?)
  2. He makes too much money (but it is in line with his success)
  3. You don’t like his attitude (your prerogative, I guess. But subjective)
  4. He doesn’t bring in high enough rated recruits (yet we have Heisman, Bilitnekof, Doak Walker, etc. talent)
Honestly, I think 1 and 3 are your biggest issues with him. Not sure a new coach fixes #1 and I can live with #3.
 

Patron

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OSU pays head football salaries from 21st to 25th in NCAA because so many teams are paying for 2 or more head coaches. Arkie,Tenn, Colo, Fla St, Mizzou, Coaches who reps took big hits this yr. Stanford, Mich St, Tex, Tex A@m, Purdue,KU, Those who love to have Coach Gundy to many to mention.
 
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OSU pays head football salaries from 21st to 25th in NCAA because so many teams are paying for 2 or more head coaches. Arkie,Tenn, Colo, Fla St, Mizzou, Coaches who reps took big hits this yr. Stanford, Mich St, Tex, Tex A@m, Purdue,KU, Those who love to have Coach Gundy to many to mention.
Not sure where you are going with this? We pay Gundy because he is worth that on the Football Coaches Market, like it or not - his salary is what other schools would pay him for his successful record over time. Does he have facilities, now, yes - as do most programs. The Big dawgs always have facilities, when we stepped up they did too.
To a question - do any these football coaches deserve multiple million yearly contracts; IMO - No Way. However the market says Yes. Despite the uo record has done well, with no major recruiting infractions, and I guess that is what 3 star recruits get you
 
Jun 12, 2007
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Back to the bowling theme which is the name of this thread. Just saw a prediction from USA Today stating ou will jump Utah if it beats Baylor to be the 4th team in the CFP. Baylor will play Alabama in the Sugar Bowl and they have OSU playing Utah in the Alamo. That would be an interesting matchup and would generate some interest since Utah is ranked so high. Playing Utah or Notre Dame would be great exposure.
 
Jan 13, 2008
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Back to the bowling theme which is the name of this thread. Just saw a prediction from USA Today stating ou will jump Utah if it beats Baylor to be the 4th team in the CFP. Baylor will play Alabama in the Sugar Bowl and they have OSU playing Utah in the Alamo. That would be an interesting matchup and would generate some interest since Utah is ranked so high. Playing Utah or Notre Dame would be great exposure.
I don't want to play Utah. No win situation. We win, everyone says, see Utah isn't that great and didn't deserve the play-offs. We lose... well, we lose.
 
Feb 15, 2017
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After last nights CFP rankings, ESPN has us in Alamo vs USC and alternate view of us in Camping vs ND
(and think if we make Alamo, TX is in Camping and if we are Camping TX is Alamo- basically a swap)
 

Jostate

CPTNQUIRK called me a greenhorn
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PLUS I don't like the NFL at all as I believe big money kills sport and it's attractiveness (it's starting to do that with college as well).
I don't watch much NFL, but my son is a big Seahawks fan so I watched them on Monday night. When they scored a TD, a bunch of the players jumped into formation in the endzone and did a rehearsed, choreographed, boy band dance. Apparently they believe we tuned in to see them dance. It reminded me why I quit watching the NFL.
 

Jostate

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I don't want to play Utah. No win situation. We win, everyone says, see Utah isn't that great and didn't deserve the play-offs. We lose... well, we lose.
We often talk about how we get no respect. Go back and look at how many games Utah has won since the year 2000. Somehow they fly under the radar even though they have done really well most years.
 
Feb 15, 2017
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Umm if utah wins their conference they go to a NY6 bowl.
"missed it by that much . . ."

He's saying that if Utah loses their confr champ and THUS Utah is relegated to the Alamo bowl THEN whoever beats utah in the Alamo will be looked at as "see, Utah wasn't that good and any idea that they should have been in the CFP discussions was crap".
 
Jan 13, 2008
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Umm if utah wins their conference they go to a NY6 bowl.
Umm it was a USA Today scenario that someone posted about Utah dropping to the Alamo. I quoted their post. I believe that scenario would also require Utah to lose to Oregon, even though it wasn't mentioned. Yes, if Utah wins their championship game, they would be in the Rose Bowl worse case.

I couldn't research the USA Today article because I'm in Austria, thanks to EU Blocking. O'Colly and Tulsa World are others that block the EU.
 
Feb 25, 2008
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Umm it was a USA Today scenario that someone posted about Utah dropping to the Alamo. I quoted their post. I believe that scenario would also require Utah to lose to Oregon, even though it wasn't mentioned. Yes, if Utah wins their championship game, they would be in the Rose Bowl worse case.

I couldn't research the USA Today article because I'm in Austria, thanks to EU Blocking. O'Colly and Tulsa World are others that block the EU.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...ses-utah-college-football-playoff/2594547001/
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