Ted Cruz trying to get Abortion pill classified as dangerous drug

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cowboyinexile

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#44
All lives do have value. That does not mean that we should not have justice in our society. The government has the right to deprive someone of liberty if they commit certain crimes just like it has the right to deprive someone of life if they commit particularly heinous crimes.
They have a responsibility to keep the public safe. But from a moral standpoint should we be ok with the government taking a life?
 

cowboyinexile

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#45
Somewhere in between babies and axe murderers.
Ok, where is it?

Take immigration for example. A lot of people who try and come here from Central and South America are trying to escape death or a fate worse than that. Is it ok to turn them away knowing there is a good chance our immigration policy is essentially a death sentence.

And don't take this as an open borders argument or anything like that. I'm just pointing out an example that this about someone more than the unborn.
 
Feb 11, 2007
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#47
As a pathologist that is probably best for everyone.
Yes as a pathologist I have seen hundred of aborted babies or as some say "products of conception". To see little babies with missing heads, chest walls with the skin scrapped off to the bone , arms and legs missing off the body and floating with all the rest of the body parts touches my heart helped changed my view of abortions.
 
Mar 11, 2006
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#49
Take immigration for example. A lot of people who try and come here from Central and South America are trying to escape death or a fate worse than that. Is it ok to turn them away knowing there is a good chance our immigration policy is essentially a death sentence.
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Really? I think you are drinking a lot of the far left koolaid and listening to non-factual talking points..
 
Sep 29, 2011
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#50
And yes I'm ok with the death penalty...we have pretty much agreed as a society that you may give up your rights if you break the law....that doesn't mean I can't believe in the right to life for innocent people. Put it another way, just because a person may be ok with criminals going to jail doesn't mean they can't or don't believe in the right to liberty. I am perfectly willing to compromise on the death penalty though....but so far I haven't found any pro-choice people willing to take me up on that compromise.
Innocent people have been killed with the death penalty.
A few perhaps. But probably far less than the innocent people that have had their life spared by the death penalty.


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Jun 20, 2012
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#51
Steross...as a physician who took the Hypocratic Oath years ago I stand for life and stand against abortion and assisted suicide.
Hey, Doc:
What about a strung-out, homeless woman that runs into the nearest hospital with stomach pains because she hasn't eaten in four days, only to find out she's three months pregnant? What then? Legal system can't even ask her to get an OB exam for her and her baby's own well being. What's that baby's future look like compared to an early termination, if that choice were made? How do you measure those two lives from that point on? How about just poverty stricken women in general? Is society better off ethically, or religiously in those cases? What about the impregnated women of human trafficking? Special circumstances? Does God act for us in these cases, or are we supposed to reason out an answer and act for ourselves? Is that why we have the ability to reason? Did God give us that ability?

It's pretty sad and funny our society is able to ethically and efficiently use abortion in the livestock industries for food and profit without question, yet we can't figure it out when it comes to human life in general because of people's personal religions and morals.
 
Mar 11, 2006
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#53
What do you think happens to the average Venezuelan 8 year old when they are turned away at the border?
Well, I will assume an average 8-year old is traveling with parents. I think the average family turned away goes back home or finds another location in Central America to live. I certainly don’t think there is a “good chance” it is a death sentence.
But I am sure there are several rags from salon, alternet, and huffpo that take one example and imply this is effecting millions.

What do you think happens to the average Venezuelan 8 year old?
 

cowboyinexile

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#55
Well, I will assume an average 8-year old is traveling with parents. I think the average family turned away goes back home or finds another location in Central America to live. I certainly don’t think there is a “good chance” it is a death sentence.
But I am sure there are several rags from salon, alternet, and huffpo that take one example and imply this is effecting millions.

What do you think happens to the average Venezuelan 8 year old?
Well, whatever happens their life isn't much in Venezuela.

Gangs and child trafficking are issues in Central America-way moreso than here. I think a lot of times people try and get out because they have an impossible situation or are dealing with something that will either end their life or send their children into a place where they wish they were dead. They see us as a safe haven and think risking their lives getting here is an acceptable way to get out of whatever they are dealing with.

I tend to think of others as if I am in their situation. Would I risk traveling by foot to Brazil for a better job? Probably not. But if a local cartel was saying my kids are going to be mules and if I said no, I get 2 in the head and the outcome is the same, and I saw my only option as going there, I'm leaving tonight.

Personally I'm not an open borders sympathizer. We need some level of immigration reform and from a security standpoint anyone moving here needs to be vetted. But it’s hard for me to sit here having a hypothetical debate on my phone while my kids are safely in bed and not have sympathy for someone who is just like me, only with the bad luck of being born in Honduras worrying about him and his kids surviving the weekend.
 
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#56
Well, whatever happens their life isn't much in Venezuela.

Gangs and child trafficking are issues in Central America-way moreso than here. I think a lot of times people try and get out because they have an impossible situation or are dealing with something that will either end their life or send their children into a place where they wish they were dead. They see us as a safe haven and think risking their lives getting here is an acceptable way to get out of whatever they are dealing with.

I tend to think of others as if I am in their situation. Would I risk traveling by foot to Brazil for a better job? Probably not. But if a local cartel was saying my kids are going to be mules and if I said no, I get 2 in the head and the outcome is the same, and I saw my only option as going there, I'm leaving tonight.

Personally I'm not an open borders sympathizer. We need some level of immigration reform and from a security standpoint anyone moving here needs to be vetted. But it’s hard for me to sit here having a hypothetical debate on my phone while my kids are safely in bed and not have sympathy for someone who is just like me, only with the bad luck of being born in Honduras worrying about him and his kids surviving the weekend.
I think you should have empathy. I would hope most would have empathy for anyone trying to make a better life for themself and their family.
There are a lot of poor people that walk hundreds if not thousands of miles because the US is the land of opportunity. However, those that don’t make it to the US or are turned away do not have a “good chance” of a death sentence. There are a lot of safe locations in Central America for them to go. However, those locations don’t have the financial safety-net and opportunities that the US offers immigrants and even Illegal immigrants.
 

CocoCincinnati

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#57
Innocent people have been killed with the death penalty.
Yep and innocent people have gone to jail as well. We should do everything we can to make sure that doesn't happen. But there have been FAR more innocent lives ended by abortion than by execution, and it's not even close. As I said, I am more than willing to compromise here and put an end to both.
 

Rack

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#58
Maybe it's just me, but it seems this thread twisted itself away from being about abortion to obscure arguments about things that rarely happen. This seems to typically be the case for those making argument for abortion. They bring up obscurity like..."what about the 12 year old girl who's immigrating from Honduras and get's raped by a mule?...shouldn't she be allowed an abortion?" These silly one in a million stories always change the debate away from the real abortion debate, which is that of abolition of abortion on demand. Most prolife people are against abortion on demand but allow for the one in a million exceptions (life of the mother, incest, rape by a mule, etc...). Some pro lifers are even for allowing it to be legal (I don't understand those just as I don't those who would allow slavery to be legal). Logic says you outlaw it on demand but allow room for exceptions even though those exceptions may go against our shared pro life moral stance.

Early on in this thread people touched on true equivalencies like Slavery vs Abortion. This is nearly exactly how someone that is pro life sees the debate. What we all collectively see as right and wrong today wasn't always seen that way, only a few saw it clearly at the time, then more and more joined them until it was abolished and removed from our soil. This was morally right, it would also be morally right to outlaw abortion on demand.

Just in case you still may think being pro life has nothing in common with ending slavery or racism...Slavery may have ended in America, but the Academic Left just replaced it with...unknown by many of the uninformed masses...nothing less than genocide.
https://www.studentsforlife.org/2020/02/14/a-history-lesson-abortion-the-african-american-community/
 
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wrenhal

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#59
A life is a life. If you're truly pro-life you can't pick and choose which lives are worth saving and which aren't.
I am pro life and not against the death penalty.
I want them to work to make sure they are putting a true criminal to death though. Part of prison reform I think needs to happen.

As a Christian, I believe that government is given the power of the sword to pass judgement on criminals. Including, whether or not they get death for crime.

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cowboyinexile

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#60
I am pro life and not against the death penalty.
I want them to work to make sure they are putting a true criminal to death though. Part of prison reform I think needs to happen.

As a Christian, I believe that government is given the power of the sword to pass judgement on criminals. Including, whether or not they have death fire crime.

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Then you aren't truly pro life. Either you believe all lives have value or you don't.