Taxes

  • You are viewing Orangepower as a Guest. To start new threads, reply to posts, or participate in polls or contests - you must register. Registration is free and easy. Click Here to register.
Jul 20, 2018
585
165
93
Oklahoma City
#81
So you are saying that somehow these same people that cannot do something four times a year (pay quarterly taxes) manage to complete a tax form once per year to reconcile taxes. People are children when allowed to be like children. If our electric bill was pulled from our paycheck every month some would say it has to be that way because we all need electricity. And yet, here we are, the vast majority paying our electric bills so we don't have our electricity shut off.
I didn't say that you did. They aren't even remotely the same thing. They throw you in jail for not filing......... not paying, not so much. So there's that "incentive" to file over not going through the motions of four quarterly payments.

In a perfect world everybody pays their taxes without withholding and knows this and that and the other thing about the whole tax process.......... but........ we don't live in that world.
 
Jul 20, 2018
585
165
93
Oklahoma City
#83
You have that backwards. You don't have to file, the IRS will happily file for you. But if you don't pay you go to jail.
You sure about that Clark?

https://tax.findlaw.com/tax-problems-audits/can-you-go-to-jail-for-not-paying-taxes.html

An excerpt:

It may have started innocently enough. You forgot to pay your taxes one year. Then one year turned into several years. You don’t have the money to pay what you owe, and now you’re wondering if you can go to jail for not paying taxes.

The short answer is maybe. You can go to jail for not filing your taxes. You can go to jail for lying on your return. But you can’t go to jail for not having enough money to pay your taxes. To better understand these distinctions, let’s take a closer look at when you risk jail time for failing to pay your taxes.
 

llcoolw

Territorial Marshal
Feb 7, 2005
6,918
3,533
1,743
Sammamish, Washington.Dallas, Texas.Maui, Hawaii
#84
You sure about that Clark?

https://tax.findlaw.com/tax-problems-audits/can-you-go-to-jail-for-not-paying-taxes.html

An excerpt:

It may have started innocently enough. You forgot to pay your taxes one year. Then one year turned into several years. You don’t have the money to pay what you owe, and now you’re wondering if you can go to jail for not paying taxes.

The short answer is maybe. You can go to jail for not filing your taxes. You can go to jail for lying on your return. But you can’t go to jail for not having enough money to pay your taxes. To better understand these distinctions, let’s take a closer look at when you risk jail time for failing to pay your taxes.
No you don't go to jail if you don't have enough cash but your soul will be taken.
 

RxCowboy

Has no Rx for his orange obsession.
A/V Subscriber
Nov 8, 2004
76,333
52,689
1,743
Wishing I was in Stillwater
#88
You sure about that Clark?

https://tax.findlaw.com/tax-problems-audits/can-you-go-to-jail-for-not-paying-taxes.html

An excerpt:

It may have started innocently enough. You forgot to pay your taxes one year. Then one year turned into several years. You don’t have the money to pay what you owe, and now you’re wondering if you can go to jail for not paying taxes.

The short answer is maybe. You can go to jail for not filing your taxes. You can go to jail for lying on your return. But you can’t go to jail for not having enough money to pay your taxes. To better understand these distinctions, let’s take a closer look at when you risk jail time for failing to pay your taxes.
My bad, failure to pay is a civil penalty. But you could end up a lot worse off. Not filing, as long as you've paid, would only mean that you don't get any refund that you may be due.
 
Dec 9, 2013
612
199
593
50
#89
Tax policy is fun to discuss but until this country gets serious about its deficit we are heading for a train wreck. We cannot keep adding 100’s of billions of dollars to an already trillion dollar/yr debt.

Tax policy is written by millionaires, voted on by millionaires who are kept in office by billionaires. The 2018 tax scam is just that. Sure the middle class is happy to keep a little more of their hard earned money but that was on purpose. When the devil comes due who do you think is going to suffer the most? High net wealth individuals & the poor will be insulated and rescuing this country will be borne by the middle.

The 2018 tax scam will explode an already insane deficit. You want to talk national security. How about the fact we are approaching spending more per year on debt than our military. We currently pay China an estimated $30 billion per year in interest. That’s equivalent to basically 1/5th of what they spend per year on their own military. We are approaching a tipping point where we have to cut our own defense spending while essentially increasing what we spend on China’s military.

Citizens United has to be overturned to get the fake and social conservatives and leftists out of government. Thanks to last year’s tax scam you are already seeing socialists line up with more lunacy. And the scam gave them maneuvering room with tax policy. Instead of paying down debt they will add to spending.

The debt will be our generations defining moment and will take sacrifice by all. I just don’t know if we get there. And not one person on either side currently announced for 2020 solves that problem.
 
Mar 11, 2006
2,538
1,755
1,743
#90
Tax policy is fun to discuss but until this country gets serious about its deficit we are heading for a train wreck. We cannot keep adding 100’s of billions of dollars to an already trillion dollar/yr debt.

Tax policy is written by millionaires, voted on by millionaires who are kept in office by billionaires. The 2018 tax scam is just that. Sure the middle class is happy to keep a little more of their hard earned money but that was on purpose. When the devil comes due who do you think is going to suffer the most? High net wealth individuals & the poor will be insulated and rescuing this country will be borne by the middle.

The 2018 tax scam will explode an already insane deficit. You want to talk national security. How about the fact we are approaching spending more per year on debt than our military. We currently pay China an estimated $30 billion per year in interest. That’s equivalent to basically 1/5th of what they spend per year on their own military. We are approaching a tipping point where we have to cut our own defense spending while essentially increasing what we spend on China’s military.

Citizens United has to be overturned to get the fake and social conservatives and leftists out of government. Thanks to last year’s tax scam you are already seeing socialists line up with more lunacy. And the scam gave them maneuvering room with tax policy. Instead of paying down debt they will add to spending.

The debt will be our generations defining moment and will take sacrifice by all. I just don’t know if we get there. And not one person on either side currently announced for 2020 solves that problem.
About 1/2 of what you said was spot on. If you would have posted just your first and last paragraphs I would have given you two thumbs up.

But the middle was Jekyl and Hyde as it seemed to alternate between true statements followed by an off-base sentence.
 
Dec 9, 2013
612
199
593
50
#91
About 1/2 of what you said was spot on. If you would have posted just your first and last paragraphs I would have given you two thumbs up.

But the middle was Jekyl and Hyde as it seemed to alternate between true statements followed by an off-base sentence.
So what I was trying to say Is that our debt is not just unsustainable but dangerous. 2018 we spent $700b on defense & there are some projections that within 10 yrs our annual interest payment on our debt will approach $900b up from around $375b currently. On our current debt we pay China over $30b/yr which is equal to just a hair over 20% of China’s defense spending.

Trump is not a conservative especially not a fisical one and a lot of his supporters are not fisical conservatives either hence the term fake conservative above. He has galvanized the 30% base that will only vote center if that is the R nominee & then some of that 30 will stay home. The Ds will continue to shift towards socialism & it is being sped up by the reaction to Trump. When part of that hard 30% Trump base stays home, the socialists win. I was trying to say that both sides have a segment that don’t focus on the debt as a main issue (some social conservatives & some socialists) and that one issue is wrecking this country.

I call it a tax scam because the middle class was duped into believing it was about them. It was only in the sense it’s because the Rs need their votes. It moved the corporate rate too far too fast and the delta it created will be used by socialists to raise to pay for more programs while everyone continues to ignore the deficit. They will also get more bold on insane tax rates. It also lowered revenues without any real spending cuts or any true consideration for the debt.
 
Oct 15, 2003
16,387
2,598
1,743
So Cal
#93
So what I was trying to say Is that our debt is not just unsustainable but dangerous. 2018 we spent $700b on defense & there are some projections that within 10 yrs our annual interest payment on our debt will approach $900b up from around $375b currently. On our current debt we pay China over $30b/yr which is equal to just a hair over 20% of China’s defense spending.

Trump is not a conservative especially not a fisical one and a lot of his supporters are not fisical conservatives either hence the term fake conservative above. He has galvanized the 30% base that will only vote center if that is the R nominee & then some of that 30 will stay home. The Ds will continue to shift towards socialism & it is being sped up by the reaction to Trump. When part of that hard 30% Trump base stays home, the socialists win. I was trying to say that both sides have a segment that don’t focus on the debt as a main issue (some social conservatives & some socialists) and that one issue is wrecking this country.

I call it a tax scam because the middle class was duped into believing it was about them. It was only in the sense it’s because the Rs need their votes. It moved the corporate rate too far too fast and the delta it created will be used by socialists to raise to pay for more programs while everyone continues to ignore the deficit. They will also get more bold on insane tax rates. It also lowered revenues without any real spending cuts or any true consideration for the debt.
do you have any actual statistics to back up that conspiracy theory?

lower corporate taxes should have had an impact on both number of jobs and on profits (taxable corporate income)... what are the numbers?

Rich people benefited more from the tax break? What are the total tax numbers of collections based on class?

I had read that 20% of the people that voted for Trump had voted previously for Obama at least once.... is that the "R" base?
 

RxCowboy

Has no Rx for his orange obsession.
A/V Subscriber
Nov 8, 2004
76,333
52,689
1,743
Wishing I was in Stillwater
#94
do you have any actual statistics to back up that conspiracy theory?

lower corporate taxes should have had an impact on both number of jobs and on profits (taxable corporate income)... what are the numbers?

Rich people benefited more from the tax break? What are the total tax numbers of collections based on class?

I had read that 20% of the people that voted for Trump had voted previously for Obama at least once.... is that the "R" base?
Of course rich people benefited more from the tax break. Poor people who do not pay income taxes do not benefit from a cut in income taxes. Duh huh.
 
Jul 20, 2018
585
165
93
Oklahoma City
#95
Of course rich people benefited more from the tax break. Poor people who do not pay income taxes do not benefit from a cut in income taxes. Duh huh.
Poor people benefit from tax credits whether they owe income tax or not. The NYT claims they lost under the bill because of changes to the earned income tax credit. I'll buy their inflation explanation for that but not that requiring a SS number hurts the poor (citizens) via the child tax credit. If you're illegal you aren't entitled to the credit anyway, so it's disingenuous to say that you "lose" under the tax plan.

According to the NYT :

Low-income families who claim the earned-income tax credit will lose out on at least $19 billion over the coming decade under the bill because of the change in the way inflation is calculated. And a new requirement that families claiming the child tax credit provide a Social Security number is projected to mean a big reduction in the families claiming it, since those who are not in the United States legally would be prohibited, even if their children were born in the United States.
 
Last edited:
Jul 20, 2018
585
165
93
Oklahoma City
#97
How the hell was a refundable tax credit ever allowed to be claimed by someone without a SS number?
That confuses me too. If you file for a tax credit, don't you have to file a tax return? And if you file a tax return doesn't it have a Social Security number associated with it?
 
Jul 25, 2018
3,702
1,089
243
49
Boulder, CO
#98
That confuses me too. If you file for a tax credit, don't you have to file a tax return? And if you file a tax return doesn't it have a Social Security number associated with it?
We live in a time where it can't even be asked if you're a citizen or not during the census.

This should not really surprise anyone, sadly.
 

Rack

Banned
Banned
Oct 13, 2004
21,708
9,596
1,743
Earth
#99
Of course rich people benefited more from the tax break. Poor people who do not pay income taxes do not benefit from a cut in income taxes. Duh huh.
Increased ability to pay "poor people" their wages certainly helps all classes. More money in private hands helps everyone who is privately employed, not just those who employee them.

So much of our current problems and success are both a result of our own international charity and our desire to build foreign markets. National debt is a crazy topic that cannot be simply discussed without the why's and the how's it happened to make changes going forward. I don't pretend to know all those answers, but would love to hear them from people who COMPLETELY understand our national debt...not just those who want to use it as a "sky is falling" political argument...that same argument that has been going on now for 50 plus years without the sky in our lap.
 
Last edited:

jobob85

Alcoholistic Sage
A/V Subscriber
Mar 11, 2009
22,668
27,205
1,743
Poor people benefit from tax credits whether they owe income tax or not. The NYT claims they lost under the bill because of changes to the earned income tax credit. I'll buy their inflation explanation for that but not that requiring a SS number hurts the poor (citizens) via the child tax credit. If you're illegal you aren't entitled to the credit anyway, so it's disingenuous to say that you "lose" under the tax plan.

According to the NYT :

Low-income families who claim the earned-income tax credit will lose out on at least $19 billion over the coming decade under the bill because of the change in the way inflation is calculated. And a new requirement that families claiming the child tax credit provide a Social Security number is projected to mean a big reduction in the families claiming it, since those who are not in the United States legally would be prohibited, even if their children were born in the United States.
I always love how reporters have to use a decade worth of spending/cuts to make a point.