Stillwater Mayor

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CowboyJD

The Voice of Reason...occasionally......rarely
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#41
First, everything I know about The Law I learned from TV or @CowboyJD. And @jakeman already has first-hand knowledge that I'm an idiot, so no worries there. All I've seen in this thread is about legality and impeachment, but don't most jurisdictions have the power of recall initiatives, where you can remove elected officials if enough voters believe they have done something egregious in office? Kinda like a democratic election after the fact? If so, the question of the original post is does the Stillwater city charter provide for recall. Whether the guy was a hero or an idiot becomes a matter for the people to decide instead of a court case that likely lasts well beyond his elected term.

Except for the lawsuit(s) about whether or not the recall process is legal, was legally processed, the plaintiff had standing, etc. Lawyers gotta eat too.
1. Appreciate the comment.

2. Yes, there is a recall procedure for mayors in Oklahoma.

3. States of Emergency can be called before the event is a full blown disaster. Prime example is states of emergencies and evacuation orders when hurricanes are still very far out at sea. States of emergencies and disaster declarations are different things.

4. I’m not going to respond to or try to convince anyone that disagrees or wants to argue. I’m just not interested.

5. Haven’t posted on this particular board in ages for a reason. Please don’t drag me into the cesspool again. :p:lol:
 
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Dec 18, 2019
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#42
You have to hand it to the guy. He’s pretty good at selling the fear factor. Every time he’s on the local radio show he will leave you believing that the worst is yet to come in two weeks (it’s always two weeks) and the ER at Stillwater Medical is like a scene out of MASH 24/7.
Does anybody remember the old Tom hanks movie money pit. Remember how the contractor always said two more weeks to finish the job? After two weeks passed it was always another two weeks.
 

wrenhal

Territorial Marshal
Aug 11, 2011
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#43
Because he left final decisions up to the mayors? What do you think he should have done differently.

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He has dragged his feet on any guidance, pushed to reopen church’s and businesses to keep the people happy and played popularity games with the essential list; IMO real leadership is what man mayors have done, made hard decisions that are not always popular that save lives.
I don't think Stitt has direct control over the essential list. That send more up to a committee or the legislature. Churches and businesses are set to reopen in phases set forth by the federal government and as far as I can tell we are participating in this. I believe Stitt has been calm and well reasoned. Not over reacting and not under reacting. He has a "task force/group" that was giving him guidance and he passed that information to the mayors and county officials, allowing them to make decisions for their own cities. All the while saying the state was there to help when needed.

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wrenhal

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Aug 11, 2011
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#44
First, everything I know about The Law I learned from TV or @CowboyJD. And @jakeman already has first-hand knowledge that I'm an idiot, so no worries there. All I've seen in this thread is about legality and impeachment, but don't most jurisdictions have the power of recall initiatives, where you can remove elected officials if enough voters believe they have done something egregious in office? Kinda like a democratic election after the fact? If so, the question of the original post is does the Stillwater city charter provide for recall. Whether the guy was a hero or an idiot becomes a matter for the people to decide instead of a court case that likely lasts well beyond his elected term.

Except for the lawsuit(s) about whether or not the recall process is legal, was legally processed, the plaintiff had standing, etc. Lawyers gotta eat too.
1. Appreciate the comment.

2. Yes, there is a recall procedure for mayors in Oklahoma.

3. States of Emergency can be called before the event is a full blown disaster. Prime example is states of emergencies and evacuation orders when hurricanes are still very far out at sea.

4. I’m not going to respond to or try to convince anyone that disagrees or wants to argue. I’m just not interested.

5. Haven’t posted on this particular board in ages for a reason. Please don’t drag me into the cesspool again. :p
Wow, haven't seen you in awhile. Pray you're doing well and hanging in there.

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wrenhal

Territorial Marshal
Aug 11, 2011
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#45
You have to hand it to the guy. He’s pretty good at selling the fear factor. Every time he’s on the local radio show he will leave you believing that the worst is yet to come in two weeks (it’s always two weeks) and the ER at Stillwater Medical is like a scene out of MASH 24/7.
Does anybody remember the old Tom hanks movie money pit. Remember how the contractor always said two more weeks to finish the job? After two weeks passed it was always another two weeks.
He can only go by what he is told by the medical community. At this point, things are getting revised and it looks like within 2 weeks we'll begin opening things up.

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snuffy

Calf fries are the original sack lunch.
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#47
No I would be happier if we put this into perspective and get back to some normalcy where people can at least feed their families and pay for housing without needing handouts.

it’s obviously not a 100% death sentence if you get the virus. Very similar to many other illnesses. I think we’ve been sold a bill of goods here. Look at the timeline actions of Fauci. He went from telling people on tv there is nothing to fear. The flu is worse to we must shutdown the country and kill tens of millions of jobs within about two weeks. Obviously the guy was and is in over his head and now we are supposed to bow at his alter.

28 cases in a population of 82,000 people and zero deaths. If 28 is too many what level do we have to get to before the city can be opened up?

another question is when the state says there are 28 is that 28 people currently with symptoms or there have been 28 total diagnosed and there is a good chance many of them have already recovered.
I think that there has been no deaths and lower Covid 19 count means social distancing and stay at home has worked.
 

CowboyJD

The Voice of Reason...occasionally......rarely
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#50
Wow, haven't seen you in awhile. Pray you're doing well and hanging in there.

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Been a bit....by design. Hope you are also doing well.

I’m doing fine. Working hard at a new job. Been in it for the past year. Daughter got a quarantine puppy and I am hoping hard she can’t take it into the dorms when university opens back up because I am seriously in love with him.
 
Dec 18, 2019
158
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#51
If arrests went up and crime went down would you say the same thing?
Should have phrased that better. We’ll never know if shutting down business and distancing was the reason for no deaths. I’m sure more people would have gotten sick but would they have resulted in death.
I’m assuming your a pharmacist and obviously an essential position that has not missed a paycheck. It’s easy to tell everyone to stay home when the income hasn’t stopped.
 

RxCowboy

Has no Rx for his orange obsession.
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#52
Should have phrased that better. We’ll never know if shutting down business and distancing was the reason for no deaths. I’m sure more people would have gotten sick but would they have resulted in death.
I’m assuming your a pharmacist and obviously an essential position that has not missed a paycheck. It’s easy to tell everyone to stay home when the income hasn’t stopped.
You haven't been following closely.

P.S. My nieces are small business owners in Stillwater.
 

cowboyinexile

Have some class
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#58
No I would be happier if we put this into perspective and get back to some normalcy where people can at least feed their families and pay for housing without needing handouts.

it’s obviously not a 100% death sentence if you get the virus. Very similar to many other illnesses. I think we’ve been sold a bill of goods here. Look at the timeline actions of Fauci. He went from telling people on tv there is nothing to fear. The flu is worse to we must shutdown the country and kill tens of millions of jobs within about two weeks. Obviously the guy was and is in over his head and now we are supposed to bow at his alter.

28 cases in a population of 82,000 people and zero deaths. If 28 is too many what level do we have to get to before the city can be opened up?

another question is when the state says there are 28 is that 28 people currently with symptoms or there have been 28 total diagnosed and there is a good chance many of them have already recovered.
Where I live there is a county population of about 20,000, and we've had 39 confirmed cases and 4 deaths.

Days are getting blurry but roughly two weeks ago we were at 25ish cases and 4 deaths. The city I live in is seen as a retirement community. The population is older and there are multiple assisted living facilities. That really got my attention early in this. Right as the stay at home orders were being established we were seeing cases start to jump and people die. I have a very good local hospital and assumed the reason our cases were high relative to other local hospitals was their testing capabilities. That being said its still a rural hospital so 20-30 people in with it and 5 on ventilators with community spread would have been overwhelming.

Fortunately, essential local businesses bought into what they needed to do and generally people seem to be smart about their activities. The county has been proactive about enforcing mandates from the state and the spread here seems to be slowing. We've got maybe a couple of people in the hospital and from what I know, aside from one assisted living facility, we haven't seen spread in senior living facilities. We got lucky, but had we not taken this seriously we would be an example of how bad this could get in rural areas.

Dont worry so much about the economic impact right now. This is temporary. No one is going to starve or get evicted in the next few weeks because of this. The federal and state governments are bending over backwards to make sure that doesn't happen. We can debate the long term consequences of what they are doing later, but for now most everyone is fine. The job situation is temporary. Most people will get their jobs back in a few weeks as we return to a normal economy. The market was fundamentally sound 8 weeks ago and there is no reason to believe that has changed. No one is taking your personal liberty. As was mentioned earlier, this is basically like a tornado or hurricane only with a more drawn out timeline. That sucks but this is new and a lot of things aren't making sense anymore. Thats fine-the people making decisions are trying to do their best and they aren't going to be 100% right, but no one in their shoes would be so we just have to make the best of it.

The people protesting aren't helping. I get that they are scared, but honestly that's a segment of the population that looks for things to be angry about. I feel actions like that are only going to stress healthcare providers in a couple of weeks when they realize their lack of interest in social distancing makes them realize they made a terrible mistake and could possibly extend everyone else's need to stick to current guidelines. Part of me wishes they would have signed a waiver to medical treatment due to this, but they are scared and that isn't right. Being honest part of me hopes you are right, or warmer weather helps, or anything, and 2-3 weeks from now conservative media outlets are bitching about how no one got sick from the protests. People being stupid about this and not making it worse is irritating but fine.
 
Mar 11, 2006
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#59
Where I live there is a county population of about 20,000, and we've had 39 confirmed cases and 4 deaths.

Days are getting blurry but roughly two weeks ago we were at 25ish cases and 4 deaths. The city I live in is seen as a retirement community. The population is older and there are multiple assisted living facilities. That really got my attention early in this. Right as the stay at home orders were being established we were seeing cases start to jump and people die. I have a very good local hospital and assumed the reason our cases were high relative to other local hospitals was their testing capabilities. That being said its still a rural hospital so 20-30 people in with it and 5 on ventilators with community spread would have been overwhelming.

Fortunately, essential local businesses bought into what they needed to do and generally people seem to be smart about their activities. The county has been proactive about enforcing mandates from the state and the spread here seems to be slowing. We've got maybe a couple of people in the hospital and from what I know, aside from one assisted living facility, we haven't seen spread in senior living facilities. We got lucky, but had we not taken this seriously we would be an example of how bad this could get in rural areas.

Dont worry so much about the economic impact right now. This is temporary. No one is going to starve or get evicted in the next few weeks because of this. The federal and state governments are bending over backwards to make sure that doesn't happen. We can debate the long term consequences of what they are doing later, but for now most everyone is fine. The job situation is temporary. Most people will get their jobs back in a few weeks as we return to a normal economy. The market was fundamentally sound 8 weeks ago and there is no reason to believe that has changed. No one is taking your personal liberty. As was mentioned earlier, this is basically like a tornado or hurricane only with a more drawn out timeline. That sucks but this is new and a lot of things aren't making sense anymore. Thats fine-the people making decisions are trying to do their best and they aren't going to be 100% right, but no one in their shoes would be so we just have to make the best of it.

The people protesting aren't helping. I get that they are scared, but honestly that's a segment of the population that looks for things to be angry about. I feel actions like that are only going to stress healthcare providers in a couple of weeks when they realize their lack of interest in social distancing makes them realize they made a terrible mistake and could possibly extend everyone else's need to stick to current guidelines. Part of me wishes they would have signed a waiver to medical treatment due to this, but they are scared and that isn't right. Being honest part of me hopes you are right, or warmer weather helps, or anything, and 2-3 weeks from now conservative media outlets are bitching about how no one got sick from the protests. People being stupid about this and not making it worse is irritating but fine.
I disagree on three items.
1) economy bouncing back: There are ”experts” on either side of this. I agree our economy was healthy 8 weeks ago, but you can’t abruptly stop a flow and expect everything to restart as normal. Some small businesses will be gone. The near 30M out of work will take a long time to get back full employment.

2) restarting: One problem with extending stay-at-home is we are not having a population developing an immunity, Without a large population with antibodies and without a vaccine there is a decent possibility of a second or even third wave. Even the concern of a 2nd wave will slow the economy.

3) People protesting: You mention the people protesting are scared. I disagree. Are the upset and frustrated? Yes. because we are looking at their government offer simple solutions instead of making prudent choices. The people scared are the stay-at-home crowd that cheer Mayor DeBlasio for putting up a hotline to snitch on people in crowds, or celebrating LA County for hiring a bulldozer to put sand on skate parks, or pleased that a Kentucky Gov demanded state police to take photos of license plates of Easter Sunday worshippers and require them to quarantine for 14 days, or congratulate the Michigan Gov for ordering residents not to drive to 2nd homes within the state or drive boats. Those are actions of people so scared of others that they become vindictive and petty.
Instead of being concerned with the own personal actions their fear grips them to judge others.

And finally, I find it fascinating the general break-down from the go-back-to-work crowd versus the stay-at-home crowd. Interesting which side is closer to valuing freedom and libertarianism and concern about people out of a job.
 
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RxCowboy

Has no Rx for his orange obsession.
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#60
And finally, I find it fascinating the general break-down from the go-back-to-work crowd versus the stay-at-home crowd. Interesting which side is closer to valuing freedom and libertarianism and concern about people out of a job.
My daughter is out of a job and I'm helping her with her bills.

I fall on the libertarian side when it comes to economics. People are confusing "safety and security" with "health". Here's an illustration. The foundation of all cardiovascular treatment is "therapeutic lifestyle changes":

1. Quit smoking
2. Lose weight
3. Exercise
4. Lower your sodium intake
5. Improve your diet

That requires not doing some things that you used to do and doing some other things that you've never done before. Now consider the two pictures below. Why should the woman in the first picture give up the liberty of eating at Baskin Robbins? We are talking about health and not safety or security, and the woman in the second picture isn't being asked to give up Baskin Robbins forever as the woman in the first picture needs to - both for their health. In the case of the second woman, because we are talking about contagion, it is also about the health of others. So, her sign might as well read, "Give me liberty, I don't care who I kill for my Baskin Robbins". At least the woman in the first picture is only killing herself.

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