State of Big 12 Programs over the next 4 seasons

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Oct 22, 2008
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#61
We have:

* More wins that last year
* A younger roster than last year
* A QB that will return from this year
* An OC in his second year next year not his first
* A OL coach in his second year next year not his first
* An improving O-line
* Finished in the top 3 of the conference THIS year
* A team that was 4-1 to end the year after winning two road games (one in which they were an underdog)
* A fanbase that is not happy with just making a bowl anymore and one that wants to win championships
* We don't know what our two best players are doing regarding the draft yet

So (besides a few negative vocal fans in our midst) how are we trending down?? Sorry, I honestly don't see it.
In a word, recruiting. Our recruiting seems like it's getting worse and it's not like we were reeling in top 20 classes to begin with. Maybe it's poor player development too. There are just a bunch of subtle things I'm seeing that makes me think our window has basically closed. We're going to go into next season with no proven RB and, outside of Stoner, our WR corp seems pretty unproven. Stoner shouldn't be the #1 option for an OSU offense anyway. Fortunately, I'm wrong a lot and I'm definitely a glass half empty guy when it comes to OSU football. I just haven't like the feel of the program the past few years. We keep losing games that we are positive we are going to win.

The fact that we cleaned up the undisciplined play from last year is encouraging. This year the big problem was turnovers by the QB and he seems to have cleaned that up before getting injured. Maybe next year we come out and play disciplined football and SS doesn't have a ton of turnovers and everything is right in the world. That's my hope at least. I'm just skeptical that it will happen.
 

Rack

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Oct 13, 2004
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#62
In a word, recruiting. Our recruiting seems like it's getting worse and it's not like we were reeling in top 20 classes to begin with. Maybe it's poor player development too. There are just a bunch of subtle things I'm seeing that makes me think our window has basically closed. We're going to go into next season with no proven RB and, outside of Stoner, our WR corp seems pretty unproven. Stoner shouldn't be the #1 option for an OSU offense anyway. Fortunately, I'm wrong a lot and I'm definitely a glass half empty guy when it comes to OSU football. I just haven't like the feel of the program the past few years. We keep losing games that we are positive we are going to win.

The fact that we cleaned up the undisciplined play from last year is encouraging. This year the big problem was turnovers by the QB and he seems to have cleaned that up before getting injured. Maybe next year we come out and play disciplined football and SS doesn't have a ton of turnovers and everything is right in the world. That's my hope at least. I'm just skeptical that it will happen.
Neither Hubbard nor Wallace have even declared yet, so you are making assumptions about those positions without all the facts. Even if they do, I don' think we do worse next year than this one. Every Gundy team that has over achieved has one thing in common...returning starting QB's. We are finally returning one. You also alluded to this and this is why I'm positive. Plus I think winning 9 is very respectable as I think we have a huge opportunity to do this year. Certainly that is positive momentum from 7 wins last year.

As far as recruiting, our best ever team was filled with 3* guys few others wanted...yet we finished #3 in the nation. Texas finishes first in recruiting nearly every year...but they underachieve nearly every year. The system used to measure classes is extremely biased filled with blue blood bias and other bias. Seldom will you see an early OSU commit move up in the rankings but you will often see them move down. Also, if you think maybe "it's poor player development" but we don't have top 30 recruiting classes yet we rank consistently in the top 25 that kind of blows that argument out of the water.
 
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RxCowboy

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#63
What are these teams current record vs the Big 12 since leaving the conference? I'd assume it's negative based on our record vs them since they left but I don't know.
Nebraska 65-50, 0.565
Colorado, 39-73, 0.348
Texas A&M 67-36, 0.650
Missouri 58-44, 0.569

Whatever they were in the Big XII is about what they are in their current conferences.
 

Rack

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#64
Nebraska 65-50, 0.565
Colorado, 39-73, 0.348
Texas A&M 67-36, 0.650
Missouri 58-44, 0.569

Whatever they were in the Big XII is about what they are in their current conferences.
Yeah, that's good information but not what I'm asking...I'm asking what their record is vs former Big 12 teams since they left. I'm assuming it's negative but it might take some research.

For us they are either 1-2 or 1-3 I think.
 
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w0lfe

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Aug 23, 2010
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#65
WVU will win this conference every 4-5 years, just like it did in the old BE. Just needed the right coach--DH isnt good, we have seen that @ Houston which was expected to be a top group of 5 program this year.

Big 12 has good teams, but no better than Miami in its heyday or VT who won like 5 of 7 ACC titles after they left the BE for the ACC. And while Cuse, Pitt, and BC all suck now, they were top 25ish teams back then.

Neil Brown and VK are the real deal. DH left them no cards to play with on offense. Will take time to rebuild that oline, and DH didnt even leave a qb on the roster who could start for Rice. NB is a known guru in recruiting, and WVU will get the players it needs to beat Texas and OU just like they beat Miami and VT when they had better players.

LOLOLOL right...….. UO is on a roll whether you believe that or not, and honestly they probably aren't going anywhere but up. WVU has a long a** ways to go to compete with the talent and coaching they are going to have the next several seasons. WVU will remain in the 5-10 range until Riley, Gundy, Campbell, and Rhule are gone.... Throw in Klieman in that group as well.
 

osupsycho

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#66
Yeah, that's good information but not what I'm asking...I'm asking what their record is vs former Big 12 teams since they left. I'm assuming it's negative but it might take some research.

For us they are either 1-2 or 1-3 I think.
So I decided to look...

And found that they have not played their old conference foes much (or the newer members of the Big XII either). Here is what I found:

Missouri
2019 beat WV
2018 lost to OSU
2017 lost to UT
2016 lost to WV
2013 beat OSU

Texas A&M
2016 lost to KSU
2014 beat WV
2012 beat OU

Colorado
2019 beat NU (old conference foe)
2018 beat NU (old conference foe)
2016 lost to OSU

Nebraska
Has not played any current member of Big XII
2019 lost to Colorado (old conference foe)
2018 lost to Colorado (old conference foe)
 
Sep 9, 2013
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#67
LOLOLOL right...….. UO is on a roll whether you believe that or not, and honestly they probably aren't going anywhere but up. WVU has a long a** ways to go to compete with the talent and coaching they are going to have the next several seasons. WVU will remain in the 5-10 range until Riley, Gundy, Campbell, and Rhule are gone.... Throw in Klieman in that group as well.
1. WVU beat Klieman this year, and has owned Kstate even with DH. there isnt a player on kstate's roster that can say he's beaten wvu. count me NOT worried about Kstate.

2. Neil Brown beat LSU in baton Rouge(breaking their record 65 game home win streak v ooc foes), beat nebraska in Lincoln, and was cheated by acc refs or he would've upset Clemson in Death Valley the year they won a title. He's just as good as Gundy, Rhule and campbell(as you will find out), and he's a better recruiter than any of them.

3. NB was tt off coor when tt upset OU in Norman, I doubt he's scared of OU either, not with the talent he'll amass in morgantown.
 

w0lfe

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Aug 23, 2010
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#69
1. WVU beat Klieman this year, and has owned Kstate even with DH. there isnt a player on kstate's roster that can say he's beaten wvu. count me NOT worried about Kstate.

2. Neil Brown beat LSU in baton Rouge(breaking their record 65 game home win streak v ooc foes), beat nebraska in Lincoln, and was cheated by acc refs or he would've upset Clemson in Death Valley the year they won a title. He's just as good as Gundy, Rhule and campbell(as you will find out), and he's a better recruiter than any of them.

3. NB was tt off coor when tt upset OU in Norman, I doubt he's scared of OU either, not with the talent he'll amass in morgantown.
Man the delusion is strong with this one.....

1. Klieman will get his players in at K-state and will turn them (at the very least) a major thorn in everyone's side, if he sticks around.

2. What kind of recruiting classes is he pulling in? We need some statistics of how he's going to bring in top 25 classes consistently. Guarantee he can't pull the QB's, WR's, and RB's that Gundy brings in every year. Did WVU have a depleted roster? Sure he did.... But the moment (IF) he turns WVU around, he'll jump ship to a bigger program. Sorry to break it to you, WVU is forever a middle of the road team in this league. Gundy has proven he's a good coach with consistency, and that's no easy task.. Just look at Texas, TCU, Baylor, etc... They've all had their spikes, but OSU has been the steady team year in and year out.

3. Good luck with that.... So no more than I follow their recruiting, just a quick check of uo's recruiting.. They've got the number 1 QB from 2019 on roster, three 5 star WR's, number 1 or 2 TE depending on the site, top 3 RB, and it appears they are actually getting some damn good defensive recruits (DT's particularly). 2020 and 2021 they've already snagged the number 1 overall recruit (Vandegriff) , number 2 TE, etc... Neil Brown probably isn't winning this league.
 

jetman

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Nov 27, 2004
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#71
1. WVU beat Klieman this year, and has owned Kstate even with DH. there isnt a player on kstate's roster that can say he's beaten wvu. count me NOT worried about Kstate.

2. Neil Brown beat LSU in baton Rouge(breaking their record 65 game home win streak v ooc foes), beat nebraska in Lincoln, and was cheated by acc refs or he would've upset Clemson in Death Valley the year they won a title. He's just as good as Gundy, Rhule and campbell(as you will find out), and he's a better recruiter than any of them.

3. NB was tt off coor when tt upset OU in Norman, I doubt he's scared of OU either, not with the talent he'll amass in morgantown.
You forgot....

4. Doege's brother had awesome stats at Tech!
 
Oct 12, 2019
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#72
Noleer is an optimist in contrast to so many supposed Cowboys who are always pessimistic. I assume that most of the naysayers have never contributed thru the posse and never bought a season ticket.
 

Birry

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Feb 6, 2007
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#74
If you focus on failure you are destined to repeat it. If you focus on success the same applies...Optimism breeds optimism and negativity also reproduces.
100% disagree. The only way to improve is to identify failures and correct them. That's why you see guys like Bill Belichick and Nick Saban upset after wins at times - because they are hyper focused on their imperfections. It's part of why they yield great results.

Sounds like you subscribe to the everyone gets a trophy, celebrate mediocrity philosophies.
 
Sep 9, 2013
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#78
Man the delusion is strong with this one.....

1. Klieman will get his players in at K-state and will turn them (at the very least) a major thorn in everyone's side, if he sticks around.

2. What kind of recruiting classes is he pulling in? We need some statistics of how he's going to bring in top 25 classes consistently. Guarantee he can't pull the QB's, WR's, and RB's that Gundy brings in every year. Did WVU have a depleted roster? Sure he did.... But the moment (IF) he turns WVU around, he'll jump ship to a bigger program. Sorry to break it to you, WVU is forever a middle of the road team in this league. Gundy has proven he's a good coach with consistency, and that's no easy task.. Just look at Texas, TCU, Baylor, etc... They've all had their spikes, but OSU has been the steady team year in and year out.

3. Good luck with that.... So no more than I follow their recruiting, just a quick check of uo's recruiting.. They've got the number 1 QB from 2019 on roster, three 5 star WR's, number 1 or 2 TE depending on the site, top 3 RB, and it appears they are actually getting some damn good defensive recruits (DT's particularly). 2020 and 2021 they've already snagged the number 1 overall recruit (Vandegriff) , number 2 TE, etc... Neil Brown probably isn't winning this league.
There are a few better programs, not as many as you think. NB is close to his home where he still has ton of family. He'd leave WVU for LSU or bama, but no chance he jumps to tenn, Miami, etc.

Rhule and campbell will both jump to PSU when Franklin leaves, and word is he doesnt feel appreciated there.
PSU fans expect national titles and they are not even getting in the cfp.

rhule or cambell would jump to the right nfl team.

I think harbaugh's days are numbered at Michigan, and i could see campbell there.

The problem for Oklahoma State is the big 12 has too many damned good coaches right now. Gundy used to out coach people, and he is a great coach, but there are few coaches in the big 12 to out-coach these days.
 
Oct 6, 2007
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#79
I respectfully disagree that Nebraska fled the conference in hopes of finding more success. I think they left because UT and the Longhorn network had way to much influence on the conference.
It had little to do with wins. It had to do with money - plain and simple. They were in search of a larger television market and expanding to an urban fan base.