Spencer Sanders - Bringing something back

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Rack

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#41
It wasn't going to be a close game with Brown. It just wasn't. 14-21 was the max the offense was going to produce with him. 14-21 isn't going to win many college football games these days. Most games it's going to get you killed.
Well we lost 24-21 so 3 points, that's a close game...with our defense we were able to squeak out games as the year went on that we would have lost in the past. My point is that it was a close game with Brown...with Sanders,, I agree, we would have won...but that doesn't negate the fact that it was a very close one field goal game that we should have been able to win even with Brown.
 

Rack

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#42
I think we can play in the conference title game rushing 60% of the time if:

1. We control time of possession.
2. We are effective at play-action passing.
3. We are effective at running option.
4. We don't turn the ball over.
5. We average more than 4.5 yards per carry.

That last one is really about o-line play more than anything. If the o-line is effective we'll average more than 4.5 yds per carry.
If we average 4.5 yards a carry I think we not only make the championship game but we win the conference. The difference is that our defense may be the best we have had in the Gundy era.
 
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#43
I think we can play in the conference title game rushing 60% of the time if:

1. We control time of possession.
2. We are effective at play-action passing.
3. We are effective at running option.
4. We don't turn the ball over.
5. We average more than 4.5 yards per carry.

That last one is really about o-line play more than anything. If the o-line is effective we'll average more than 4.5 yds per carry.
I"d add if the defense is as good as we expect.
 

gundysburner

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#44
If we average 4.5 yards a carry I think we not only make the championship game but we win the conference. The difference is that our defense may be the best we have had in the Gundy era.
Agree on the defense, but the 4.5 ypc's not really a barometer for winning the conference. We've averaged over that every year since 2015.
 

Rack

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#45
Agree on the defense, but the 4.5 ypc's not really a barometer for winning the conference. We've averaged over that every year since 2015.
Well, since I think we are going to win the conference outright , if we play a season...then my prediction still stands.
 

gundysburner

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#46
Well, since I think we are going to win the conference outright , if we play a season...then my prediction still stands.
I think a stat much more tied to winning is what our turnover ratio looks like & history backs it up much moreso than ypc. Winning the turnover battle means winning the game 75% of the time. Rushing for 4.5ypc doesn't really guarantee anything.
 
Apr 12, 2020
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#47
I probably blasted ya. We could have won it was a close game. We just didn’t. I agree we would have likely won with him as qb considering we barely lost without him.
It wasn't going to be a close game with Brown. It just wasn't. 14-21 was the max the offense was going to produce with him. 14-21 isn't going to win many college football games these days. Most games it's going to get you killed.
Except in reality it was a close game? Kinda felt like we blew it.


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OSUMIKE17

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#48
We ran the ball at a high clip b/c we had a QB that struggled reading coverages, which led to limiting him to reading half the field. Having a QB reading half the field puts serious limitations on the offense, especially the passing game. Realistically, you want balance....not necessarily a hard 50/50, but as close to it as possible.

IMO, if we have to ride Hubbard again, expect similar results especially since everyone knows Hubbard, and what he's capable of, and teams will prioritize stopping Hubbard and the run game, and force Sanders to beat them through the air, which he hasn't shown he could do that yet!! Expectations for Sanders this year is hopefully he's capable/proficient in reading the entire field b/c if he's able to do that, it opens up the entire offensive playbook.
This is somewhat the wrong way around. Sanders struggled early last season when the coaches asked him to read too much. When they simplified the options for him, he did much better.

And that’s to be expected from a redshirt freshman QB during his first season starting under a brand new OC.

I expect him to be better this year with more experience, a simpler playbook (for the time being), more confidence in throwing more timely passes, etc.

His QB rating in his last two complete games against ISU and TCU (pretty good defenses) were 173 and 179, respectively. Ehlinger’s average QB rating last season was 152 and Purdy’s was 151. Obviously that doesn’t tell the whole story but it’s a fair indicator of Sanders’ improvement.
 
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#50
This is somewhat the wrong way around. Sanders struggled early last season when the coaches asked him to read too much. When they simplified the options for him, he did much better.

And that’s to be expected from a redshirt freshman QB during his first season starting under a brand new OC.

I expect him to be better this year with more experience, a simpler playbook (for the time being), more confidence in throwing more timely passes, etc.

His QB rating in his last two complete games against ISU and TCU (pretty good defenses) were 173 and 179, respectively. Ehlinger’s average QB rating last season was 152 and Purdy’s was 151. Obviously that doesn’t tell the whole story but it’s a fair indicator of Sanders’ improvement.
I don't think its wrong at all....Kid struggled b/c he couldn't read the field. His mechanics need work as well. Constantly throwing off his back foot, and across his body like he's Mahomes isn't a recipe for success. Our offense isn't that complex, in fact it's fairly basic considering a lot of our routes are outside the hashes to the sidelines. Was there going to be struggle...sure, but he not only struggled reading the field, he struggled with the playbook in general. Even when we went to half read, he still struggled to a degree. You would think someone who spend a year redshirting would have a better grasp of the playbook, and he simply didn't. Also, the kid was careless with the ball, and that's unacceptable. We're not talking about small hand Rudolph, we're talking about Sanders who carried the ball like a loaf of bread like he's still in HS. Now to his credit, he cleaned it up, and hopefully it stays that way. His play towards the end began to trend a positive direction before the injury, but truth is we rode Hubbard b/c it was necessary and our passing game was compromised to a degree.

Expectations is hopefully he understands the playbook, and is able to read the entire field, which IMO isn't a lot to ask going into his 3rd year. Against ISU, he had a solid game, with the help of Wallace and Johnson taking screen passes to the house, but the defense and Ammendola's FG's were the story of the game. Sanders and the entire offense struggled in the 2nd half. Against TCU, only asked to complete 15 passes. Hubbard and the defense were the story of that game. QBR is a nice stat, but I don't put a huge stock in it personally.
 
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RxCowboy

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#52
If we average 4.5 yards a carry I think we not only make the championship game but we win the conference. The difference is that our defense may be the best we have had in the Gundy era.
I don't think that alone is enough, but if you combine it with the other things I've laid out, yeah, we could win it all. I think the absolute most important thing is ball control, take the pressure off the defense. Do that and our D could also be really good.
 

OSUMIKE17

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#53
I don't think its wrong at all....Kid struggled b/c he couldn't read the field. His mechanics need work as well. Constantly throwing off his back foot, and across his body like he's Mahomes isn't a recipe for success. Our offense isn't that complex, in fact it's fairly basic considering a lot of our routes are outside the hashes to the sidelines. Was there going to be struggle...sure, but he not only struggled reading the field, he struggled with the playbook in general. Even when we went to half read, he still struggled to a degree. You would think someone who spend a year redshirting would have a better grasp of the playbook, and he simply didn't. Also, the kid was careless with the ball, and that's unacceptable. We're not talking about small hand Rudolph, we're talking about Sanders who carried the ball like a loaf of bread like he's still in HS. Now to his credit, he cleaned it up, and hopefully it stays that way. His play towards the end began to trend a positive direction before the injury, but truth is we rode Hubbard b/c it was necessary and our passing game was compromised to a degree.

Expectations is hopefully he understands the playbook, and is able to read the entire field, which IMO isn't a lot to ask going into his 3rd year. Against ISU, he had a solid game, with the help of Wallace and Johnson taking screen passes to the house, but the defense and Ammendola's FG's were the story of the game. Sanders and the entire offense struggled in the 2nd half. Against TCU, only asked to complete 15 passes. Hubbard and the defense were the story of that game. QBR is a nice stat, but I don't put a huge stock in it personally.
You just said that he struggled less when the playbook was condensed from a full field read to a half field read. Did he struggle still? Yes, but not as much. And that’s the same point I made.

The OP’s statement was that he would have had more success with a wide open playbook that didn’t confine him to half the field. That’s what I disagreed with and what was clearly shown as the season went on.

You can look at the TCU and ISU games whichever way you’d like. The fact is that he played better in them than in the conference games earlier in the season and the stats show it.

Also, I plainly said QBR wasn’t the whole story. But thanks for your opinion on it, I guess? Please list what you consider to be reliable QB metrics that can be used...but only in certain situations that help fit your narrative, of course.
 
Feb 24, 2020
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#54
You just said that he struggled less when the playbook was condensed from a full field read to a half field read. Did he struggle still? Yes, but not as much. And that’s the same point I made.

The OP’s statement was that he would have had more success with a wide open playbook that didn’t confine him to half the field. That’s what I disagreed with and what was clearly shown as the season went on.

You can look at the TCU and ISU games whichever way you’d like. The fact is that he played better in them than in the conference games earlier in the season and the stats show it.

Also, I plainly said QBR wasn’t the whole story. But thanks for your opinion on it, I guess? Please list what you consider to be reliable QB metrics that can be used...but only in certain situations that help fit your narrative, of course.
You just said that he struggled less when the playbook was condensed from a full field read to a half field read. Did he struggle still? Yes, but not as much. And that’s the same point I made.

The OP’s statement was that he would have had more success with a wide open playbook that didn’t confine him to half the field. That’s what I disagreed with and what was clearly shown as the season went on.

You can look at the TCU and ISU games whichever way you’d like. The fact is that he played better in them than in the conference games earlier in the season and the stats show it.

Also, I plainly said QBR wasn’t the whole story. But thanks for your opinion on it, I guess? Please list what you consider to be reliable QB metrics that can be used...but only in certain situations that help fit your narrative, of course.
We can agree to disagree on how much he struggled....he played better sure...IMO not much.
The stats are the stats in the ISU and TCU...played solid, and I stated that...I'm not going to endlessly praise the kid for decent performances. He struggled in the 2nd half against ISU and should've thrown 3 INT's but they dropped 2.

TCU was the Hubbard show and the defense forcing 4 turnovers...sanders was decent, but again nothing to crow home about. Reality is he needs to play better, and has a lot to clean up in order to win a championship, which is what I said.... I have no narrative...stand by everything I said. If saying a QB needs to play better is wrong in order to win a title is a bad thing...I guess that makes me the bad guy lol...

I said QBR is a nice stat, but its not the end all for me. Doesn't mean I hate it, much less trashed it... Stop being over dramatic!!
 
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Apr 12, 2020
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#55
Let’s specify, last season we ran the ball on 60% of snaps https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/passing-play-pct

Do you think we can make the Conference title game rushing 60% of the time? What percentage would you like to see us get to?


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We ran the ball at a high clip b/c we had a QB that struggled reading coverages, which led to limiting him to reading half the field. Having a QB reading half the field puts serious limitations on the offense, especially the passing game. Realistically, you want balance....not necessarily a hard 50/50, but as close to it as possible.

IMO, if we have to ride Hubbard again, expect similar results especially since everyone knows Hubbard, and what he's capable of, and teams will prioritize stopping Hubbard and the run game, and force Sanders to beat them through the air, which he hasn't shown he could do that yet!! Expectations for Sanders this year is hopefully he's capable/proficient in reading the entire field b/c if he's able to do that, it opens up the entire offensive playbook.
So you mention how we ran the ball because we didn’t have the confidence in the QB, and I wouldn’t even really disputed that, but what you aren’t mentioning is how much better the run game makes the QB.

You and other keep saying SS ‘better have improved if we want a chance’, but while the foundation for those improvements are set in the off-season, someone doesn’t actually improve until their seeing game action. So the real question is, what can the coaching staff do schematically and game mgmt wise to maximize SS but still get wins.

That’s why I come back to how much do we want to run it? Honestly, I think our run game is going to be even better than last year, the Oline specifically I think will even be better at run blocking due to the talent growing into starting roles and the coup that getting Sills is (the Oline’s issue will be does LT hold in pass protection), we should have more confidence in the back up RB seeing LD flashed last year and Glass has gone through his RS year, and we all know exactly how good Chuba and SS are running the ball. I love our TE position, we all feel that Jelani is under utilized and Logan Carter thrived every time they got him involved.

I think early in the season we could play with a ton of 2 TE sets, get creative move Carter around so we get into 12 & 21 personnel and run the ball down teams throat. Be very much a run first team, hit that 60% rushing plays mark again. Really utilize SS’s legs and how much stress that puts on a defense. And if we’re successful doing that, it’s going to make SS’s job as a passer easy. If he masters the easy stuff and builds that confidence, that’s when those next steps come.

But that’s one approach, there’s also the very real idea of “you only learn by doing” so maybe Gundy needs to just take the reigns off of him early on, give him full control of the offense again, and see what he’s got. If you believe that the only way to get better at passing is to throw passes, then that’s definitely the way to go, he’ll definitely get more pass attempts that way, and we could probably afford some mistakes against competition like Tulsa and SS working through mistakes could be huge for improvement. It’s a very real dilemma, but I think the worst is getting stuck in between. Don’t drop back 75 times against Tulsa just to set up a false expectation and then have throw the ball 10 times against TCU.


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OSUMIKE17

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#58
We can agree to disagree on how much he struggled....he played better sure...IMO not much.
The stats are the stats in the ISU and TCU...played solid, and I stated that...I'm not going to endlessly praise the kid for decent performances. He struggled in the 2nd half against ISU and should've thrown 3 INT's but they dropped 2.
Who is endlessly praising him? These are some odd strawmen you are building. All I said is that he played better when the coaches simplified the offense for him. I’m not sure why you’re moving the goalposts from that specific point.
TCU was the Hubbard show and the defense forcing 4 turnovers...sanders was decent, but again nothing to crow home about. Reality is he needs to play better, and has a lot to clean up in order to win a championship, which is what I said.... I have no narrative...stand by everything I said. If saying a QB needs to play better is wrong in order to win a title is a bad thing...I guess that makes me the bad guy lol...
Again, who ever claimed that you saying “the QB needs to play better in order to win a title” is a bad thing or you’re a bad guy for saying it?

I don’t think anyone would disagree with that.
I said QBR is a nice stat, but its not the end all for me. Doesn't mean I hate it, much less trashed it... Stop being over dramatic!!
For the third time, I never said it is the end all for anyone stat. In fact, I said it wasn’t nearly the whole story. Why do you need to keep building these strawmen? Are you okay?
 
Feb 24, 2020
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oklahoma
#59
Who is endlessly praising him? These are some odd strawmen you are building. All I said is that he played better when the coaches simplified the offense for him. I’m not sure why you’re moving the goalposts from that specific point.

Again, who ever claimed that you saying “the QB needs to play better in order to win a title” is a bad thing or you’re a bad guy for saying it?

I don’t think anyone would disagree with that.

For the third time, I never said it is the end all for anyone stat. In fact, I said it wasn’t nearly the whole story. Why do you need to keep building these strawmen? Are you okay?
Perfectly fine...you seem to be mad b/c I'm not oozing over QBR....I should be asking if you're okay? Not that serious at the end of the day!