Research undermines medical marijuana claims

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okstate987

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#81
Marijuana users feel MORE pain:...cannabis lowers pain tolerance...users need more painkillers

The drug, which is legal for medical use in the majority of US states, is mainly prescribed to ease pain. But this new research conducted in Colorado - which was the first state to legalize - suggests that short-term pain relief could weaken the body's resilience to pain over time. The researchers, from the Swedish Medical Center, Colorado, analyzed around 260 people who were involved in minor vehicle accidents and admitted to trauma centers. Of these, 54 tested positive for recent marijuana use while 16 claimed they used the drug more or less every day.

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...
So lets look at the larger collection of data regarding cannabis and pain. We even have several mechanisms of action regarding why marijuana may reduce pain for some people.

4.15. Analgesia

Preclinical studies have noted that the CB1 receptor is expressed in brain regions important for sensing and responding to pain (nociception),[244][245][246] suggesting that the cannabinoids may play an important role in nociceptive transmission.[247] Marijuana inhalation does appear to mitigate pain, however this is more of a dissociative effect, reducing the reported unpleasantness of pain rather than perceived intensity.[248]

The effect of CB1 activation on pain dissociation can occur in those who have never used marijuana before[248] and has a rapid onset, occurring within 45 minutes of inhalation.[247] Efficacy may also correlate with perceived severity of pain, as CB1 agonists have been found to be especially effective in hyperalgesic states.[247][249]Interestingly, marijuana has been shown to have a biphasic effect on pain, with medium doses causing the most robust pain relief and higher doses actually increasing pain.[247] Consistent with this idea, at least one study using an active dose of 20mg Δ9THC failed to find any pain relieving effects 2.5 hours after oral ingestion of a capsule, instead finding evidence of increased sensitivity to pain.[250]

There appears to be an acute analgesic effect of Δ9THC when administered either as capsules or as inhaled. This has been most tested in the capsaicin model for neuropathic pain. Notably, one study has indicated that marijuana may have a biphasic effect on pain, with medium doses causing pain relief and higher doses actually increasing the perception of pain.

The dissociation of pain seen in otherwise healthy volunteers (naive to Δ9THC and given 15mg) where pain was induced by topical capsaicin appears to be associated with right amygdala activity;[248] a brain region that preferentially processes highly salient stimuli[251] and is known to be involved in pain perception.[252][253] This is thought to partially explain the analgesic effects, since some peripheral mechanisms may also contribute to the observed analgesic effects from CB1 activation.[254]

The effects of marijuana on pain relief appear to be mediated by CB1 activation in the amygdala region of the brain.

Marijuana has been tested in the treatment of neuropathic pain, and found to be effective in reducing pain when smoked compared to placebo (0% THC content).[255][256] Vaporized marijuana was also found to be effective in reducing pain relative to placebo, including in patients with neuropathic pain resistant to traditional treatments.[257] Smoking marijuana was also found to be effective specifically in HIV-related neuropathic pain in placebo-controlled trials, providing benefit similar to other therapies for neuropathic pain[258] and providing additional relief when added on top of other therapies to manage pain.[259]

Vaporized and smoked marijuana appears effective in reducing neuropathic pain due to various causes, including physical trauma and HIV.

From: https://examine.com/supplements/marijuana
 

okstate987

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#82
The fact of the matter is that we have had plenty of studies about marijuana to know that it is relatively safe for non-schizophrenic folks. We have not had clinical trials, but schedule 1 status has prevented that from even being a possibility until recently.

On a side note, psilocybin mushrooms may only be a few years away from being a prescribed medication, as they are supposed to start phase 3 clinical trials for end of life anxiety and depression.

When it comes down to it, if an adult wants to put something into their body, it should be their choice. Not society, not the government and not a religious entity.
 

kaboy42

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#83
The fact of the matter is that we have had plenty of studies about marijuana to know that it is relatively safe for non-schizophrenic folks. We have not had clinical trials, but schedule 1 status has prevented that from even being a possibility until recently.

On a side note, psilocybin mushrooms may only be a few years away from being a prescribed medication, as they are supposed to start phase 3 clinical trials for end of life anxiety and depression.

When it comes down to it, if an adult wants to put something into their body, it should be their choice. Not society, not the government and not a religious entity.
Well there we go folks... disband the FDA! It’s superfluous and unnecessary. Not to mention a government entity limiting our freedoms.

Hell, why do we even need Doctors or Pharmacists? Everyone should be able to self-diagnose and self-medicate (just as long as you’re an adult and it’s your body).

This concept would revolutionize healthcare! And Darwin Award Winners would take care of themselves. I love it!!!

:derp:
 

StillwaterTownie

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#84
Well there we go folks... disband the FDA! It’s superfluous and unnecessary. Not to mention a government entity limiting our freedoms.

Hell, why do we even need Doctors or Pharmacists? Everyone should be able to self-diagnose and self-medicate (just as long as you’re an adult and it’s your body).

This concept would revolutionize healthcare! And Darwin Award Winners would take care of themselves. I love it!!!

:derp:
A professor of psychiatry would like to disagree with you when it comes to marijuana:
"I have come to doubt whether the FDA rules should apply to cannabis. There is no question about its safety. It is one of humanity's oldest medicines, used for thousands of years by millions of people with very little evidence of significant toxic effects. More is known about its adverse effects than about those of most prescription drugs." Dr. Lester Grinspoon, retired professor of psychiatry at Harvard.
 

RxCowboy

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#85
And then says mj can't be studies because it's schedule I. I see where you're going.
Studied more than acetaminophen.
That's shown to be false.
Can't be studied because it's C-I. But it's studied in other countries because it isn't C-I, so it's still studied more than acetaminophen.
And that's still false because I pulled from a world-wide database.
Next?
 

RxCowboy

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#86
The grass is not always greener: a multi-institutional pilot study of marijuana use and acute pain management following traumatic injury
Kristin Salottolo, Laura Peck, Allen Tanner II, Matthew M. Carrick, Robert Madayag, Emmett McGuire and David Bar-Or
Patient Safety in Surgery 2018 12:16
https://doi.org/10.1186/s13037-018-0163-3© The Author(s). 2018
Received: 8 March 2018 Accepted: 24 May 2018 Published: 19 June 2018

Abstract
Background
Widespread legislative efforts to legalize marijuana have increased the prevalence of marijuana use and abuse. The effects of marijuana on pain tolerance and analgesic pain management in the acute pain setting have not been reported. Although marijuana has been shown to have antinociceptive effects and is approved for medical use to treat chronic pain, anecdotal evidence suggests marijuana users admitted with traumatic injuries experience poorer pain control than patients who do not use marijuana. We hypothesized that marijuana users would report higher pain scores and require more opioid analgesia following traumatic injury.

Methods
This retrospective pilot study included all patients involved in motor vehicle crashes, consecutively admitted to four trauma centers from 1/1/2016–4/30/2016. Marijuana status was examined as non-use and use, and was further categorized as chronic and episodic use. We performed a repeated measures mixed model to examine the association between marijuana use and a) average daily opioid consumption and b) average daily pain scores (scale 0–10). Opioid analgesics were converted to be equianalgesic to 1 mg IV hydromorphone.

Results
Marijuana use was reported in 21% (54/261), of which 30% reported chronic use (16/54). Marijuana use was reported more frequently in Colorado hospitals (23–29%) compared to the hospital in Texas (6%). Drug use with other prescription/street drugs was reported in 9% of patients. Other drug use was a significant effect modifier and results were presented after stratification by drug use. After adjustment, marijuana users who did not use other drugs consumed significantly more opioids (7.6 mg vs. 5.6 mg, p<? 0.001) and reported higher pain scores (4.9 vs. 4.2, p<? 0.001) than non-marijuana users. Conversely, in patients who used other drugs, there were no differences in opioid consumption (5.6 mg vs. 6.1 mg, p=?0.70) or pain scores (5.3 vs. 6.0, p=?0.07) with marijuana use compared to non-use, after adjustment. Chronic marijuana use was associated with significantly higher opioid consumption compared to episodic marijuana use in concomitant drug users (11.3 mg vs. 4.4 mg, p=0.008) but was similar in non-drug users (p=0.41).

Conclusion
These preliminary data suggest that marijuana use, especially chronic use, may affect pain response to injury by requiring greater use of opioid analgesia. These results were less pronounced in patients who used other drugs.

Keywords
Marijuana Acute pain management Vehicular trauma Substance abuse
 

kaboy42

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May 2, 2007
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#87
The grass is not always greener: a multi-institutional pilot study of marijuana use and acute pain management following traumatic injury
Kristin Salottolo, Laura Peck, Allen Tanner II, Matthew M. Carrick, Robert Madayag, Emmett McGuire and David Bar-Or
Patient Safety in Surgery 2018 12:16
https://doi.org/10.1186/s13037-018-0163-3© The Author(s). 2018
Received: 8 March 2018 Accepted: 24 May 2018 Published: 19 June 2018

Abstract
Background
Widespread legislative efforts to legalize marijuana have increased the prevalence of marijuana use and abuse. The effects of marijuana on pain tolerance and analgesic pain management in the acute pain setting have not been reported. Although marijuana has been shown to have antinociceptive effects and is approved for medical use to treat chronic pain, anecdotal evidence suggests marijuana users admitted with traumatic injuries experience poorer pain control than patients who do not use marijuana. We hypothesized that marijuana users would report higher pain scores and require more opioid analgesia following traumatic injury.

Methods
This retrospective pilot study included all patients involved in motor vehicle crashes, consecutively admitted to four trauma centers from 1/1/2016–4/30/2016. Marijuana status was examined as non-use and use, and was further categorized as chronic and episodic use. We performed a repeated measures mixed model to examine the association between marijuana use and a) average daily opioid consumption and b) average daily pain scores (scale 0–10). Opioid analgesics were converted to be equianalgesic to 1 mg IV hydromorphone.

Results
Marijuana use was reported in 21% (54/261), of which 30% reported chronic use (16/54). Marijuana use was reported more frequently in Colorado hospitals (23–29%) compared to the hospital in Texas (6%). Drug use with other prescription/street drugs was reported in 9% of patients. Other drug use was a significant effect modifier and results were presented after stratification by drug use. After adjustment, marijuana users who did not use other drugs consumed significantly more opioids (7.6 mg vs. 5.6 mg, p<? 0.001) and reported higher pain scores (4.9 vs. 4.2, p<? 0.001) than non-marijuana users. Conversely, in patients who used other drugs, there were no differences in opioid consumption (5.6 mg vs. 6.1 mg, p=?0.70) or pain scores (5.3 vs. 6.0, p=?0.07) with marijuana use compared to non-use, after adjustment. Chronic marijuana use was associated with significantly higher opioid consumption compared to episodic marijuana use in concomitant drug users (11.3 mg vs. 4.4 mg, p=0.008) but was similar in non-drug users (p=0.41).

Conclusion
These preliminary data suggest that marijuana use, especially chronic use, may affect pain response to injury by requiring greater use of opioid analgesia. These results were less pronounced in patients who used other drugs.

Keywords
Marijuana Acute pain management Vehicular trauma Substance abuse
But dude... THOUSANDS of years of medicinal use!!! Can you not read?!??!






:derp:
 

steross

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#88
Conclusion
These preliminary data suggest that marijuana use, especially chronic use, may affect pain response to injury by requiring greater use of opioid analgesia. These results were less pronounced in patients who used other drugs.
This is really not surprising. As it appears that MJ does have some pain relieving properties, constant use is pretty likely to invoke hyperalgesia and tolerance. It does with opiates.

Remember when the Cox-2 inhibitors came out and the initial thought was that they were going to be wonder drugs that didn't tear up the gut like NSAIDs but would safely relieve pain? Then with more use turns out they aren't that great for the stomach after all. And, oops, they also are associated with vascular events.

After we get over this wave of thinking that MJ is the perfect drug to fix all that ails you, the reality will be found and it will then find its niche for things where its benefits outweigh its harms. And, if allowed it will probably be a relatively safe recreational drug, compared to the others. The chicken and egg debate of if MJ leads to psychosis or is just commonly used in young people that were going to develop psychosis is leaning more toward MJ having culpability as a cause.

It really appears for pain that the best thing to take is the largest dose of absolutely nothing that you can tolerate, and only add other things above nothing when you absolutely must. Other than therapy, exercise, meditation, or whatever not pharma method helps.
 

RxCowboy

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#89
This is really not surprising. As it appears that MJ does have some pain relieving properties, constant use is pretty likely to invoke hyperalgesia and tolerance. It does with opiates.

Remember when the Cox-2 inhibitors came out and the initial thought was that they were going to be wonder drugs that didn't tear up the gut like NSAIDs but would safely relieve pain? Then with more use turns out they aren't that great for the stomach after all. And, oops, they also are associated with vascular events.

After we get over this wave of thinking that MJ is the perfect drug to fix all that ails you, the reality will be found and it will then find its niche for things where its benefits outweigh its harms. And, if allowed it will probably be a relatively safe recreational drug, compared to the others. The chicken and egg debate of if MJ leads to psychosis or is just commonly used in young people that were going to develop psychosis is leaning more toward MJ having culpability as a cause.

It really appears for pain that the best thing to take is the largest dose of absolutely nothing that you can tolerate, and only add other things above nothing when you absolutely must. Other than therapy, exercise, meditation, or whatever not pharma method helps.
First day of pharmacy school in 1984, "The best medicine is no medicine. If we can treat something without exposing the patient to adverse effects we are usually better off." It is still true. Benefits have to clearly outweigh risks.
 

okstate987

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#91
Well there we go folks... disband the FDA! It’s superfluous and unnecessary. Not to mention a government entity limiting our freedoms.

Hell, why do we even need Doctors or Pharmacists? Everyone should be able to self-diagnose and self-medicate (just as long as you’re an adult and it’s your body).

This concept would revolutionize healthcare! And Darwin Award Winners would take care of themselves. I love it!!!

:derp:
There is a big difference bewteen full on legalization of drugs and disbanding the FDA. Thanks for providing a perfect example of a shitpost.

I would figure someone like you who claims to be pro small government would like an idea that is cheaper on the taxpayer, decreases government overreach, is better for those who are addicted and has empirical data backing it.
 

kaboy42

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#92
There is a big difference bewteen full on legalization of drugs and disbanding the FDA. Thanks for providing a perfect example of a shitpost.

I would figure someone like you who claims to be pro small government would like an idea that is cheaper on the taxpayer, decreases government overreach, is better for those who are addicted and has empirical data backing it.
I am for all of that... but not at the risk of safety. The FDA exists because of tragic events (contaminated beef, contaminated aspirin, etc..). The CFR's are law because of tragic events. The FDA has oversight over everything from the milk you drink to the aspirin you take to the prescribed augmentin the Dr gives you. NONE of that would be safe if it weren't for the FDA and the CFRs. They do have their place. Sometimes regulations are actually a good thing.

And I've been arguing against "medical" marijuana... not full on legalization of drugs.

When it comes down to it, if an adult wants to put something into their body, it should be their choice. Not society, not the government and not a religious entity.
I was more specifically replying to this ^^^^^^^ quote. We have the FDA and the CFR's (Government) so that when a Manufacturer makes a food, a drug, a cosmetic, a medical device, you can feel confident it is safe for putting it in to your body.

You growing your own "something" to put in your own body without any oversight is a big difference than you buying a "something" mass produced by a manufacturer/grower without any oversight and then putting it in your body.
 

wrenhal

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#93
This is really not surprising. As it appears that MJ does have some pain relieving properties, constant use is pretty likely to invoke hyperalgesia and tolerance. It does with opiates.

Remember when the Cox-2 inhibitors came out and the initial thought was that they were going to be wonder drugs that didn't tear up the gut like NSAIDs but would safely relieve pain? Then with more use turns out they aren't that great for the stomach after all. And, oops, they also are associated with vascular events.

After we get over this wave of thinking that MJ is the perfect drug to fix all that ails you, the reality will be found and it will then find its niche for things where its benefits outweigh its harms. And, if allowed it will probably be a relatively safe recreational drug, compared to the others. The chicken and egg debate of if MJ leads to psychosis or is just commonly used in young people that were going to develop psychosis is leaning more toward MJ having culpability as a cause.

It really appears for pain that the best thing to take is the largest dose of absolutely nothing that you can tolerate, and only add other things above nothing when you absolutely must. Other than therapy, exercise, meditation, or whatever not pharma method helps.
First day of pharmacy school in 1984, "The best medicine is no medicine. If we can treat something without exposing the patient to adverse effects we are usually better off." It is still true. Benefits have to clearly outweigh risks.
And don't forget if something claims to be a miracle drug it will more times than not turn out to be a untrue.

Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk
 
May 22, 2005
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#96
From the article:

Medical research has shown marijuana is a potential medical treatment only for a handful of specific ailments, and in most cases those treatments have come in liquid forms of the drug, not from smoking the plant. Yet SQ 788 would allow people with medical marijuana authorization to possess six mature marijuana plants and six seedling plants.
Medical officials also are familiar with the known negative effects of tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), the main psychoactive ingredient in marijuana. Large doses of marijuana have been shown to cause some people to have hallucinations, delusions and paranoia. Use during pregnancy can harm the baby and is associated with increased risk of brain and behavioral problems in the child. The drug is believed to make symptoms worse for those with schizophrenia.
 
Oct 30, 2007
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#98
Every time I hear about the medical wonders of marijuana, I think of these memes. I've always hated the idea of legalizing anything for medicinal purposes without having clinical trials first. Ignorance is never a good thing.

Hopefully before too long the federal government will loosen the current restrictions and allow real clinical trials to happen. That's probably what would be best for our country as a whole.
1529700322292.png

1529700795867.png
 

StillwaterTownie

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#99
From the article:

Medical research has shown marijuana is a potential medical treatment only for a handful of specific ailments, and in most cases those treatments have come in liquid forms of the drug, not from smoking the plant. Yet SQ 788 would allow people with medical marijuana authorization to possess six mature marijuana plants and six seedling plants.
Medical officials also are familiar with the known negative effects of tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), the main psychoactive ingredient in marijuana. Large doses of marijuana have been shown to cause some people to have hallucinations, delusions and paranoia. Use during pregnancy can harm the baby and is associated with increased risk of brain and behavioral problems in the child. The drug is believed to make symptoms worse for those with schizophrenia.
Perish the thought the petition out to vote on putting medical marijuana in the Oklahoma Constitution would allow 8 mature plants and 8 seedling plants.

If you have hallucinations, delusion, schizophrenia and paranoia, just have the good sense to quit using marijuana, just like some people find it is necessary to quit drinking alcohol. Pregnant women shouldn't use marijuana any more than alcohol. Worry about issues like this are so silly when Canada is getting ready to legalize rec marijuana. If you disagree, then how shall we raise your taxes to build more prisons to put more people in who sell or use marijuana? In Oklahoma, people convicted of selling marijuana can still get up to life in prison.

Incidentally, I'd feel a lot safer with having some legal marijuana plants growing in my home than having a bottle of Everclear around, especially if children were present.
 
Last edited:

RxCowboy

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Every time I hear about the medical wonders of marijuana, I think of these memes. I've always hated the idea of legalizing anything for medicinal purposes without having clinical trials first. Ignorance is never a good thing.

Hopefully before too long the federal government will loosen the current restrictions and allow real clinical trials to happen. That's probably what would be best for our country as a whole.
View attachment 62110
View attachment 62112
There was a time when the prevailing medical thought was, "If it makes you feel good then it is good for you." That is obviously untrue, as we now know. It's true that morphine, heroin, cocaine, cannabis were all once OTC. There are good reasons why the are now not OTC. I don't think legalization will work any better now than it did then. "We know more now." If knowledge were protective then no pharmacist or physician would ever become an addict.