Question regarding the public reactions to racism

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Jostate

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But see, my ancestors are mostly Mennonite that came here are slavery due to religious persecution in Russia, oh and some Irish and a very little Apache. On the Irish side, here in early 1900's. And lived in small town Oklahoma. So my ancestors did nothing to him or any other black person.

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I laugh when I think about all the Hispanic people coming to this country possibly facing higher taxes to pay reparations to black people because white people did stuff a century before they arrived here.
 

GodsPeace

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Frederick Douglass statue gets hit.

Anyone still buying into this bullspit?

Ben Franklin knew we just might be too stupid to keep this thing going long term. "A republic, madam, if you can keep it."

8yr old girl killed by BLM activists in Atlanta. Media REFUSE to tell the truth because they are in league with or afraid of the mob.
 

steross

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It's the systemic part that I get hung up on. Racism exists. Probably to a lesser extent than we are told by some politicians and media, but it exists. The word "systemic" implies companies allow it to take place or encourage it. I challenge you to find any company of any size who encourages racism or even looks the other way. Actually all companies of any size actively work against it. Search any company you can think of, go to their website, and click "careers" or "jobs", you will quickly find an abundance of testimony about their efforts towards diversity.
The systemic word means that it is a problem in the system, not isolated. If it were isolated, the overall data would not show it or the focal areas of problem would stand out. For example, the black unemployment rate would be the same as others in Wisconsin but higher in Alabama. Or, homeownership rates might be lower but business ownership rates are higher. Instead, the problems appear to be spread throughout the system.

As far as how much exists, don't go by what anyone on either side tells you. Just look at the data.
 

steross

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That subtle, possibly unintentional, racism you speak of is hard to address and a little different than the cops beating up a black guys for not using his blinker stories.

I don't know how you fix that because it's inside a person's heart and not something the government can easily address. That's when you get into regulating a thought process based on those studies. This results in telling a Dr. what to prescribe because a study showed us the Dr. must be biased in his decision process, or telling a hiring manager who he should hire because the numbers say someone out there might not be fair.

Do you want the government involved in your handling of patients because some other Dr. may have been unfair? I don't want the government involved in my staffing decisions because it's hard enough to find and retain good employees without thinking of quotas.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but how do you address that level of racism?
How am I addressing it? As I already mentioned, I am aware it exists. I do not claim that I don't do it and blame "the other doctor." And when in a situation where I might be doing it I try to remain cognizant that it could affect my decisions and consider it. No different than all the other non-racial things that affect our biases. When a nurse hands me a chart and says, "This guy was seen for vomiting yesterday and diagnosed with a stomach bug. He is already back because it isn't better." That biases you. Before you go in the room the thought of "What a snowflake, lay in bed like everyone else and quit bothering us" is in your head but the possibility that it wasn't a stomach bug instead is DKA, appendicitis etc is still there and bias can cause a mistake.

If people would quit pretending it isn't there or isn't bad. Quit thinking that they are the one that rises above it. And consider it in interactions and listen to what the people that it happens to say instead of immediately discounting it based on your own experiences. That is what would help, not the "government" boogeyman.
 

Jostate

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The systemic word means that it is a problem in the system, not isolated. If it were isolated, the overall data would not show it or the focal areas of problem would stand out. For example, the black unemployment rate would be the same as others in Wisconsin but higher in Alabama. Or, homeownership rates might be lower but business ownership rates are higher. Instead, the problems appear to be spread throughout the system.

As far as how much exists, don't go by what anyone on either side tells you. Just look at the data.
The data is a limited story too. Things like employment, home ownership, college admission all assume the applicants are similar only differing in race. We can't get too far into the root cause stuff without people throwing the race card, and nobody wants to be on the wrong side of that so we avoid the discussion.

Until we can examine why a higher percentage of a race have lower credit or aren't meeting the same qualifications we can't really make any progress. Maybe it is a bunch of racist guys dismissing applications because they have a hyphen in their name. Maybe it's more complex than that. We are not prepared, as a society, to ask hard questions, and as I said earlier some have a vested interest in perpetuating the whole thing.
 

Jostate

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If people would quit pretending it isn't there or isn't bad. Quit thinking that they are the one that rises above it. And consider it in interactions and listen to what the people that it happens to say instead of immediately discounting it based on your own experiences. That is what would help, not the "government" boogeyman.
I do challenge myself often to see if I could be falling into that trap.

BTW, you're telling me the Democratic party hasn't found this to be an effective strategy and play it up for all they can?
 

steross

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I do challenge myself often to see if I could be falling into that trap.

BTW, you're telling me the Democratic party hasn't found this to be an effective strategy and play it up for all they can?
I can't say that I even recall using the word "Democrat" in this thread. Based on that and the fact that I find the way that everyone attributes everything bad to the other party and everything good to their party useless I don't think there is any chance I told you that at all. I like discussing policy. General blaming of one party or the other for complex issues isn't my thing. You could just as easily say that Trump uses this to rally his white loving base and tweets it for all he can and it would also be true and untrue depending on perspective.
 

steross

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The data is a limited story too. Things like employment, home ownership, college admission all assume the applicants are similar only differing in race. We can't get too far into the root cause stuff without people throwing the race card, and nobody wants to be on the wrong side of that so we avoid the discussion.

Until we can examine why a higher percentage of a race have lower credit or aren't meeting the same qualifications we can't really make any progress. Maybe it is a bunch of racist guys dismissing applications because they have a hyphen in their name. Maybe it's more complex than that. We are not prepared, as a society, to ask hard questions, and as I said earlier some have a vested interest in perpetuating the whole thing.
What are the "hard questions" you are talking about?
 

Jostate

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. You could just as easily say that Trump uses this to rally his white loving base and tweets it for all he can and it would also be true and untrue depending on perspective.
Abso fricken lutely. Both parties have their strategy, but the Democrats using the race card is a big part of theirs. The Democrats have made the angry white guys keeping you down a big part of their marketing strategy for a while. That way they can reach women, sexual identity, minorities et al. The Republicans have tried at times to say "we include all" and this is everyone's country but that's a harder sell. Trump seems to be going with a "F that, we're not going to take it anymore" approach.
 

Jostate

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What are the "hard questions" you are talking about?
Why do some races have lower credit, fewer college graduates, more incarcerated? These are hard because any answer beyond systemic racism puts you on an uncomfortable side of the debate. I've seen some black guys on TV make the case pretty strongly for more complex solutions, but they can do that.

With many of the stats that show incarceration rate or college admission, you could replace race with income level, or 2 parent households and the numbers work out about the same.

See, you pulled me back in again. I stick a toe in the water, you follow up with a question and here I am again.
 

steross

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Why do some races have lower credit, fewer college graduates, more incarcerated? These are hard because any answer beyond systemic racism puts you on an uncomfortable side of the debate. I've seen some black guys on TV make the case pretty strongly for more complex solutions, but they can do that.

With many of the stats that show incarceration rate or college admission, you could replace race with income level, or 2 parent households and the numbers work out about the same.

See, you pulled me back in again. I stick a toe in the water, you follow up with a question and here I am again.
Addict blaming the needle. :D
 
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What are the "hard questions" you are talking about?
Why do some races have lower credit, fewer college graduates, more incarcerated? These are hard because any answer beyond systemic racism puts you on an uncomfortable side of the debate. I've seen some black guys on TV make the case pretty strongly for more complex solutions, but they can do that.

With many of the stats that show incarceration rate or college admission, you could replace race with income level, or 2 parent households and the numbers work out about the same.

See, you pulled me back in again. I stick a toe in the water, you follow up with a question and here I am again.
The most accepted root cause of the black communities socio-economic challenges is the lack of family structure. But that ain’t getting fixed anytime soon if the majority of blacks adhere/follow/prescribe to the BLM doctrine. In fact, things will likely get worse.


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Trump has actually put through the beginnings of prison reform in the "First Step Act" and promised more. This was before all of what's going on right now. Values of personal responsibility and character are what conservatives push and those mean with what a large majority of blacks agree with. We also promote economic independence. And we promote this no matter what your skin color is. That's just a few reasons they should vote Republican/conservative.

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i think a better argument could be made blacks should vote for a third party candidate. The democrats dont do anything for you vote for the republicans is a lazy argument in my opinion. The Republicans passed a prison reform bill LAST MONTH and now blacks should vote republican? The democrats under obama had the clemency act and other initiatives. The republicans have no identity at the moment. They are functioning more as moderates if anything. The republicans are no longer fiscally conservative they are blowing through money left and right and having tons of wasteful spending. The christian values? Trump did a photoshoot at the church but send me a photo with him sitting in a church for service. They are handing out welfare like a socialist country and trump is behaving like a dictator. 9 of the top 10 poorest states voted republican. So if republicans wont take care of their rural base now why would blacks be better voting republican?? I hear this all of the time I am really intrigued.
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Jun 16, 2020
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Democrats founded and funded KKK, killed Lincoln, were the segregationists and must change history to coverup consistent racism. Facts, facts, facts.
if we were voting on the 1890 ballot that would matter. William clay said this is my fav quote about politics. “This is quite a game, politics. There are no permanent enemies, and no permanent friends, only permanent interests."