Question regarding the public reactions to racism

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Sep 29, 2011
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At what point will opposing BLM become racist if it’s not already.

Or is it not racist at all?


Black Lives Do Matter.
I believe people of COLOR are Overly targeted by corrupt white law-enforcement for sport.
I support the cause to CHANGE this treatment of men and women of COLOR
Those that oppose this CHANGE are racist.
A person can support the change in treatment of black persons by law enforcement while not supporting BLM. BLM is about a lot more than how law enforcement treats them.
 
Oct 15, 2003
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Too simple.

Why are there a lack of fathers in African-Americans but not in African immigrants? Is that even true? Are there more single-family homes in descendants of slavery vs new immigrants?
descendants of slavery, who said that? There were many free black people. Chicago was in the North. Many blacks owned slaves.

single-PARENT homes is a product of welfare, not slavery. They can collect it if the father is not in the home - so they "stay" someplace else. That's part of the reason that the lower income black people don't "live" anywhere, they "stay" someplace.

"Where do you stay at"?
 
Oct 15, 2003
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What would you call having the largest incarcerated population in the history of mankind? I think mass incarceration is a pretty apt name for it. Also, you must have not read those links I shared. Black people are not committing more drug crime, they are just being convicted of it at a far higher rate. You don't see any issue with that?

I don't think that someone who decides to alter their brain chemistry using internal or external means is a criminal. People should have that agency to decide for themselves, they are responsible for the outcomes, good or bad.
You're using very old numbers that do not apply to today.

December 2019

In its first major report, the independent, bipartisan Council on Criminal Justice has found that racial and ethnic disparities in U.S. prisons and jails, as well as in parole and probation populations, declined from 2000 to 2016

….In that same time frame, white women were imprisoned at a higher rate for violent, property and drug crimes, while black women were imprisoned less often for drug crimes — a change that caused the racial disparity between incarcerated black and white women at the state level to fall from 6-to-1 to 2-to-1.

That decline was sharper than the decline among men, the study found.
Over the 16 years that were studied, the number of black men in state prison declined by more than 48,000, while the number of white men increased by more than 59,000. Similarly, the number of incarcerated black women fell by more than 12,000, and the number of white women in prison grew by nearly 25,000.
AD

The incarceration rates for white women grew steadily over time, leading the study’s authors to believe that the opioid epidemic that hit communities nationwide in recent years might explain some of the change — but not all of it.

“The prevailing narrative is that attitudes have changed only recently and due to the opioid epidemic, which has been mostly a white problem. But these trends predate that significantly,” Gelb said. “The ultimate question becomes, are these remaining gaps due to biased decision-making or not?”

The study did not break down the data by state, which means it is unclear which U.S. regions have made the most — or least — improvement. The authors note in their conclusion that “the effects of criminal justice case processing vary by race and type of crime, making it difficult to point to a single factor that accounts for race-specific changes in imprisonment.”
AD

For example, sentencing habits and parole decisions from state to state could affect those rates, the study said.
“Additional data and research are essential to understand why precisely these trends are occurring, nationally and within state and local jurisdictions,” wrote the study’s authors.
 

steross

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descendants of slavery, who said that? There were many free black people. Chicago was in the North. Many blacks owned slaves.
I said that. In 1860 about one in 10 black people in America were free making the large majority slaves. And, of those that were free, the vast majority were in America because they were an emancipated slave or the offspring of an emancipated slave. It wasn't like Africans were up and migrating here on their own. So, descendants of slavery fits the point exactly.

Being argumentative over absolutely nothing...... Hey everybody....CC is back!
 

NotOnTV

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Sep 14, 2010
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At what point will opposing BLM become racist if it’s not already.

Or is it not racist at all?


Black Lives Do Matter.
I believe way to many people of COLOR are Overly targeted by corrupt white law-enforcement for sport. I believe that this situation has gotten worse with the Militarization of law-enforcement. With thousands of solders returning from 20+ years of war entering the ranks of the police force.I believe it’s a national problem.

I support the cause to CHANGE this treatment of men and women of COLOR
Those that oppose this CHANGE are in my mind basically racist.
So it's racist to not support a racist movement. Gotcha.
 
Oct 15, 2003
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I said that. In 1860 about one in 10 black people in America were free making the large majority slaves. And, of those that were free, the vast majority were in America because they were an emancipated slave or the offspring of an emancipated slave. It wasn't like Africans were up and migrating here on their own. So, descendants of slavery fits the point exactly.

Being argumentative over absolutely nothing...... Hey everybody....CC is back!
Frankly, as usual, YOU are the one who has no idea what they are arguing about. In 1860 MOST slaves were WHITE.

In 1870 there were all free. In 1920, they had almost identical family dymamics. (yes, even the "decendents of slaves")

TODAY - even fewer of them are decedents of slaves, having traveled here freely from Africa and other countries.

--------------------------------------------------------------

by

Paul L. Williams, Ph.D.

The first black slaves arrived in America in the early years of the 17th Century.

At the time of the ratification of the Constitution in 1788, there were less than 50,000 slaves in America – – and the vast majority of them were white.

Sorry, Barack, but white slavery pre-dates black slavery in America. This fact has been verified by forensic evidence from archaeological digs and historical documents uncovered by contemporary scholars, including Don Jordan and Michael Walsh inWhite Cargo (New York University Press: 2009).​

The white slaves not indentured, who began to arrive here in 1618, included hundreds of children – – waifs and strays – – who had been rounded up from streets of London to serve wealthy farmers in Virginia.

Other slaves came from the ranks of the homeless and the poor, whom King JamesI, held responsible for spreading the plague, and from England’s swelling prison population.

The scheme was supported by James I, who believed the homeless and itinerant of London were spreading plague.

Of the first 300 white slaves to land in Virginia, only 12 managed to survive four years. The others died of ill treatment, disease, attack by native Americans or overwork.

Contemporary records show that one child victim, Elizabeth Abbott, was beaten to death when her master ordered her to be given 500 lashes for running away.

At least 70,000 white men, women, and children from England and Ireland were shipped to the colonies to be sold as slaves on the auction block during the 170 years of British rule.

Throughout the colonial period, white slaves remained the main labour force on the Virginia and Maryland plantations, outnumbering Africans by as many as four to one.

Benjamin Franklin suggested the American authorities should send rattlesnakes back to England in return for such unwelcome imports.

Whites remained slaves until the Emancipation Proclamation. In 1855, Frederic Law Olmsted, the landscape architect who designed New York’s Central Park, was in Alabama on a pleasure trip and saw bales of cotton being thrown from a considerable height into a cargo ship’s hold. The men tossing the bales somewhat recklessly into the hold were Negroes; the men in the hold were Irish.
https://politicalvelcraft.org/2011/11/30/most-slaves-in-america-were-white/
 

okstate987

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But at the local level, breaking that Democrat hold, even if by voting in Republicans, is a start. Breaking the hold that Democrats have on the black voting block needs to be done and there are voices in the black community trying. But Al Sharron and Jesse Jackson, etc... get them all fired up to vote Democrat all the time.

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Why would black people by and large want to vote republican? At least the democrats give their interests lip service. It would be like me suggesting to you to vote democrat to "break republican strongholds" so that limited government principles can be advanced. Do you think the democrats would help your limited government cause? Neither suggestion makes any sense.

Futhermore, what new solutions and ideas have republicans put forward to deal with this issue? Pretty much none, outside of 2-4 people in congress who have signed on to criminal justice reform. The same approach is going to lead to similar results, which we have seen plenty of.
 

okstate987

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But see, rioting and looting, and tearing down statues, and beating white people and destroying their cars....... None of that is fixing anything.

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@okstate987 if you agree the BLM organization is Marxist, then by default can't you see how they are using local people to influence these groups into accomplishing their goals? These are not monolithic groups, but by using influence and sway, they are encouraging them to act monolithically using they're anger to invite violence. And it's not just BLM, there are Marxist/socialist/communist groups that are all working toward the same goal and using the anger of the black community to hide their purpose. Tearing down statues is only part of it.

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Yes, BLM leadership (well 2 of their leaders) self-disclosed that their guiding ideological theory is marxist. I wouldn't give the leadership of that organization so much of a say with what is going on. When people say BLM, almost none of them are referring to the organization, they are referring to the movement itself, which is organic and comprised of all kinds of people.

In regards to the violence, the significant majority of those protesting have been peaceful. Protests draw all kinds of people. Some people want to affect change, some what to show support, others may be angry, and others still just want to f*ck things up. Look at the riots in Minnesota, where it was reported that everyone arrested in a 48 hour period were from out of state, or people from the latter group driving long distances to mess things up. Letting those people speak for the masses who did not conduct themselves in that matter is disingenuous. If we are always letting the extremes dictate the message, there is little hope that a resolution can be reached. Fortunately, the majority of people are not extreme.
 

wrenhal

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Aug 11, 2011
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But at the local level, breaking that Democrat hold, even if by voting in Republicans, is a start. Breaking the hold that Democrats have on the black voting block needs to be done and there are voices in the black community trying. But Al Sharron and Jesse Jackson, etc... get them all fired up to vote Democrat all the time.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
Why would black people by and large want to vote republican? At least the democrats give their interests lip service. It would be like me suggesting to you to vote democrat to "break republican strongholds" so that limited government principles can be advanced. Do you think the democrats would help your limited government cause? Neither suggestion makes any sense.

Futhermore, what new solutions and ideas have republicans put forward to deal with this issue? Pretty much none, outside of 2-4 people in congress who have signed on to criminal justice reform. The same approach is going to lead to similar results, which we have seen plenty of.
Trump has actually put through the beginnings of prison reform in the "First Step Act" and promised more. This was before all of what's going on right now. Values of personal responsibility and character are what conservatives push and those mean with what a large majority of blacks agree with. We also promote economic independence. And we promote this no matter what your skin color is. That's just a few reasons they should vote Republican/conservative.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
 

okstate987

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Frankly, as usual, YOU are the one who has no idea what they are arguing about. In 1860 MOST slaves were WHITE.

In 1870 there were all free. In 1920, they had almost identical family dymamics. (yes, even the "decendents of slaves")

TODAY - even fewer of them are decedents of slaves, having traveled here freely from Africa and other countries.

--------------------------------------------------------------

by

Paul L. Williams, Ph.D.

The first black slaves arrived in America in the early years of the 17th Century.

At the time of the ratification of the Constitution in 1788, there were less than 50,000 slaves in America – – and the vast majority of them were white.

Sorry, Barack, but white slavery pre-dates black slavery in America. This fact has been verified by forensic evidence from archaeological digs and historical documents uncovered by contemporary scholars, including Don Jordan and Michael Walsh inWhite Cargo (New York University Press: 2009).​

The white slaves not indentured, who began to arrive here in 1618, included hundreds of children – – waifs and strays – – who had been rounded up from streets of London to serve wealthy farmers in Virginia.

Other slaves came from the ranks of the homeless and the poor, whom King JamesI, held responsible for spreading the plague, and from England’s swelling prison population.

The scheme was supported by James I, who believed the homeless and itinerant of London were spreading plague.

Of the first 300 white slaves to land in Virginia, only 12 managed to survive four years. The others died of ill treatment, disease, attack by native Americans or overwork.

Contemporary records show that one child victim, Elizabeth Abbott, was beaten to death when her master ordered her to be given 500 lashes for running away.

At least 70,000 white men, women, and children from England and Ireland were shipped to the colonies to be sold as slaves on the auction block during the 170 years of British rule.

Throughout the colonial period, white slaves remained the main labour force on the Virginia and Maryland plantations, outnumbering Africans by as many as four to one.

Benjamin Franklin suggested the American authorities should send rattlesnakes back to England in return for such unwelcome imports.

Whites remained slaves until the Emancipation Proclamation. In 1855, Frederic Law Olmsted, the landscape architect who designed New York’s Central Park, was in Alabama on a pleasure trip and saw bales of cotton being thrown from a considerable height into a cargo ship’s hold. The men tossing the bales somewhat recklessly into the hold were Negroes; the men in the hold were Irish.
https://politicalvelcraft.org/2011/11/30/most-slaves-in-america-were-white/
1593984520994.png

Wow CC, this peer reviewed journal you used appears to be super reliable. Did you find that on Ebsco?
1593984906916.png

PS: I hope you have been covering your ankles.
 
Last edited:

wrenhal

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But see, rioting and looting, and tearing down statues, and beating white people and destroying their cars....... None of that is fixing anything.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
@okstate987 if you agree the BLM organization is Marxist, then by default can't you see how they are using local people to influence these groups into accomplishing their goals? These are not monolithic groups, but by using influence and sway, they are encouraging them to act monolithically using they're anger to invite violence. And it's not just BLM, there are Marxist/socialist/communist groups that are all working toward the same goal and using the anger of the black community to hide their purpose. Tearing down statues is only part of it.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
Yes, BLM leadership (well 2 of their leaders) self-disclosed that their guiding ideological theory is marxist. I wouldn't give the leadership of that organization so much of a say with what is going on. When people say BLM, almost none of them are referring to the organization, they are referring to the movement itself, which is organic and comprised of all kinds of people.

In regards to the violence, the significant majority of those protesting have been peaceful. Protests draw all kinds of people. Some people want to affect change, some what to show support, others may be angry, and others still just want to f*ck things up. Look at the riots in Minnesota, where it was reported that everyone arrested in a 48 hour period were from out of state, or people from the latter group driving long distances to mess things up. Letting those people speak for the masses who did not conduct themselves in that matter is disingenuous. If we are always letting the extremes dictate the message, there is little hope that a resolution can be reached. Fortunately, the majority of people are not extreme.
The video below shows the beliefs of those on the ground. They openly spout this and no one calls them on it. So if the majority don't want this then why don't they call them out?

https://share.par.pw/post/342d620fe4b0449f8c7dbde0ac5ff8c2

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
 
Aug 30, 2018
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Jonesville South Carolina
Trump has actually put through the beginnings of prison reform in the "First Step Act" and promised more. This was before all of what's going on right now. Values of personal responsibility and character are what conservatives push and those mean with what a large majority of blacks agree with. We also promote economic independence. And we promote this no matter what your skin color is. That's just a few reasons they should vote Republican/conservative.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
I think all agree that education is one of the main issues for blacks in America, or lack of a good one. With that said, why is it that democrats won’t support school choice so that black children would have a better chance to receive a better education? I realize that they are in bed with the teacher unions, but if Democrats truly want equality, then why are they against providing black children with a quality education? Is it just because that Republicans champion this cause?
 

okstate987

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Trump has actually put through the beginnings of prison reform in the "First Step Act" and promised more. This was before all of what's going on right now. Values of personal responsibility and character are what conservatives push and those mean with what a large majority of blacks agree with. We also promote economic independence. And we promote this no matter what your skin color is. That's just a few reasons they should vote Republican/conservative.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
While I will give him credit for the first step act, he has done a great deal in opposition to criminal justice reform:
Among the administration’s actions riling civil rights and criminal justice advocates:
●The Justice Department's Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention diminished a research program that sought to eliminate the overincarceration of black and Latino youths compared with their white counterparts. States receiving grants no longer have to provide specific data on black and brown youth arrests and convictions to determine whether there is "disproportionate minority contact" with law enforcement. Instead, state officials — according to the Marshall Project, a nonprofit, nonpartisan news organization focusing on criminal justice — are asked less detailed questions that fail to specifically address the problem. A Justice Department statement said a research unit was moved from one office to another "to improve coordination and support the development of a coherent and broad research agenda."
●The juvenile justice office also withdrew training manuals used by local officials to reduce racial disparities in the name of cutting regulations, the Marshall Project reported. The Justice Department said that a tool to monitor youth contact with law enforcement was removed from the agency’s website “based on new legal guidance” and that data collection requirements were simplified.
●A 2017 Trump executive order allowing police departments to get federal military equipment. The order overturned a policy President Barack Obama implemented after an uproar against the use of what he called “militarized gear” against crowds protesting the police killing of Michael Brown, an unarmed African American teen, in Ferguson, Mo. Trump, referring to his executive order and other actions later that year, said he “promised to restore law and order to our country. . . . We will spare no resource in fighting, so that every American child can grow up free from violence and fear.”
●The sharp reduction of the Justice Department’s “pattern-or-practice” investigations of certain police departments to determine how often they use force, what kind of force and whether that force is used excessively against black people.
●The slashing of the use of consent decrees, court-approved agreements between the Justice Department and local police agencies accused of excessive force, often against black residents. The agreements were designed to reform police practices and improve community relations.

In regarded to the bolded section, republicans have not supported economic independence. In fact, I am surprised that people can say that with a straight face. Bush and Trump, who are both republicans have bailed out enormous portions of the market, favoring the well established and connected. The republicans have this rhetoric, but in actuality they are every bit as fiscally liberal as the democrats. I fail to see why this approach would have much appeal to the majority of the black population. Why would they?
 

okstate987

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The video below shows the beliefs of those on the ground. They openly spout this and no one calls them on it. So if the majority don't want this then why don't they call them out?

https://share.par.pw/post/342d620fe4b0449f8c7dbde0ac5ff8c2

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
It wants me to download an app to view the post/video. Is there any way to link to the video directly instead?

I have seen a lot of people calling out violence and vandalism, again, I would be careful of trying to paint everyone or anything more than a small minority as violent.

Let's turn the tables. Why don't you call out the white supremacist Trump supporters? If the majority of Trump supporters don't share those values, why don't we see more people calling them out?

Do you see what I am talking about?
 

GodsPeace

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65% of African American children grow up in a single parent household. Only 4% of Nigerian children grow up in a single parent household. I'm not that familiar with the country of Nigeria, but it appears that there's a vastly different culture there.

As mentioned earlier, welfare has played a big part in where we are today. 80% of African Americans lived in poverty in the 40's. That percentage had fallen steadily until the 60's when the war on poverty started and single parent households were incentavized. Then little progress was made for the next 30 years. Welfare was reformed in the 90's, but single parent households persisted. Only 25% of African American children were born out of wedlock in the 60's. Today that figure is 77%.

Statistics show that single parent household rates correlate strongly to things like education, employment, income, violent crime, & incarcerate rates. IMO, finding a way to lower single parent household rates is the key to fighting inequality. We're going to continue to see inequality of outcome until that happens.

View attachment 82863
Single parent rate in 1960s was in the 20-30% range. Since the creation of the welfare system it has gone up to 71% or more.
 
Mar 11, 2006
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A woman, who was protesting while blocking an interstate in Seattle at 2AM, was struck and killed by a car two nights ago. CNN and other media sites picked up the story. There is ample video of the woman getting flung threw the air.

Now, the story is nowhere on CNN or MSNBC’s website. Oddly, CNN currently has a front page story about a highway protesting blocking a Philadelphia highway, but now mums the word about the Seattle incident. Why has the story about the Seattle woman’s death suddenly been dropped?

Unfortunately, we all know the reason why. Anything that doesn’t fit the narrative and may upset their readers worldview is quickly hidden.
 
Nov 6, 2010
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I said that. In 1860 about one in 10 black people in America were free making the large majority slaves. And, of those that were free, the vast majority were in America because they were an emancipated slave or the offspring of an emancipated slave. It wasn't like Africans were up and migrating here on their own. So, descendants of slavery fits the point exactly.

Being argumentative over absolutely nothing...... Hey everybody....CC is back!
Well, that didn't last long.