Question regarding the public reactions to racism

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okstate987

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I can see that there would be effects, especially more abusive father's etc.. but there are many that escape that cycle so it isn't as cut and dry as that.

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I agree, there are plenty of people who escape from this, but nothing is in isolation. For some people who may be impacted by this issue, it can be combined with other risk factors which can make it incredibly difficult.
 

wrenhal

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In 1964 when the huge expansion in welfare created what would become generational dependency, the death blow to the nuclear black family was struck. That's when women began being paid $276 monthly per child under the threat of losing said payments if the father (or male) was discovered living with the family. No bs, no hyperbole, just the facts of the day. Check LBJ's comments at the time and you'll find his words initiating the beginning of the end.
Would you hush!
I was tryin' to get him there.;)

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That leads us back to Democrats and their control of places like Chicago, Detroit, and L.A..... for all their platitudes, what have they truly done for black people, other than keep them tied down to the inner cities and a cycle of poverty?

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okstate987

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So solving the mechanisms that have a significant impact on why there is a discrepancy between white and black earnings, net worth and general life opportunities won't have any effect on their quality of life? That doesn't make sense to me.

Your statues comment is a straw man. The vast majority of statues that have been pulled down were paid for by the daughters of the confederacy and other groups in the period of 1910-1960. They were built in predominantly black areas of town as a way to intimidate the black populace there. Do you have an issue with those statues coming down knowing the intent and timing of putting them up?
I have seen Christopher Columbus statues, including one in an Italian neighborhood last night, being torn down.
The town where the sculptor of the emancipation monument was from, took down their copy of it.
They want the original emancipation statue taken down and tried to tear it down already. They are taking down statues just to take them down now. You are gonna honestly tell me every statue they've defaced or torn down was some form of oppression? How about the monument they defaced that celebrated the black 34th Mass. (I believe that was it)? That was representing black union soldiers that helped win the civil war. Either you are being disingenuous or you are ignorant and really think this is only about statues that intimidate. As has been said before, these people are being issued and motivated by marxists that want to rewrite history and dismantle our form of government. And they are using the BLM momentum to encourage the indoctrinated left to accomplish it for them.

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No, not every statue pulled down makes sense in light of stated goals. Some should not be pulled down. In light of how many which have been pulled down, they are a minority and the exception not the rule.

BLM is complex. I think that the conservatives make it seem they are a top down monolithic organization, but it is a loose movement, possibly even less organized than the occupy movement. I agree with the general movement, but also disagree with the organization itself. They do have self-described marxist ideologies and wont get a dime of my money. Marxism is the antithesis of libertarianism.
 
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Too simple.

Why are there a lack of fathers in African-Americans but not in African immigrants? Is that even true? Are there more single-family homes in descendants of slavery vs new immigrants?
Too simple.

Why are there a lack of fathers in African-Americans but not in African immigrants? Is that even true? Are there more single-family homes in descendants of slavery vs new immigrants?
Too simple.

Why are there a lack of fathers in African-Americans but not in African immigrants? Is that even true? Are there more single-family homes in descendants of slavery vs new immigrants?
It is simple. Culture.

From the Civil War until 1920, black and white marriage rates increased at roughly the same rate from 55 to 60%. Since 1920, single parent homes in the black community have risen dramatically. 61% of black homes are headed by single females. 21% of white homes are headed by single females.

There is an ever growing something within the black culture, unrelated to slavery, unrelated to racism, that causes a large percentage of the black community to willingly not pursue a family structure.

Which, by the way, makes at least a portion of the BLM movement abhorrent. To wit, the BLM position on families:

“We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.”


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okstate987

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That leads us back to Democrats and their control of places like Chicago, Detroit, and L.A..... for all their platitudes, what have they truly done for black people, other than keep them tired down to the inner cities and a cycle of poverty?

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I will be the first to say I am not an expert on those cities politics. Policing has been poor, crime high, people incarcerated very high also. The democrats provide lip service and very little in the way of actual change or experementation. I think it is similar to how the republicans talk about small government, but grow it at record rates. Neither political party really serves their constituents, more like holds them hostage ideologically. Its part of why we are in the position we are in.
 

wrenhal

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So tell me what came first, the drug war and mass incarceration, or rap music and single parenting? Do you see how once this cycle starts up, it is very very difficult for people to break out of it? It is going to take something other tham money to solve. We can start breaking the cycle through criminal justice reform, which should save everyone money except prisons. Yes, it should even provide a benefit to taxpayers who currently pay on average over 48k a year to incarcerate one prisoner.
What came first? The single parent crisis. The break up of the family unit. But does that excuse those that make the rap music calling women sex objects? Why do voices within the black community calling them out for that, get drowned out by people saying it's just art and they should leave them alone?

And how does tearing down a statue of Abraham Lincoln solve any of that? One paid for by slaves? I agree there needs to be reform. If you listen to the people co-opting this movement, they want to not reform, but abolish prisons and abolish the police. When confronted, they admit that is letting violent criminals out of prison. They somehow think sticking them into some halfway house would be better for them.
As has been said before, most people are that George Floyd didn't need to die in custody and said so. Protests, ok, but then there groups using this as a tool stepped in. They started causing riots and looting. And those protesting peacefully tried to defend them. "They are just hurt" "they are grieving". BS. Burning businesses and stealing Legos and TV's isn't grieving. No more than treating down statues is accomplishing any real change. If nothing else, it is further dividing us. Especially when there are voices in the black community that aren't being listened to that have tried to help, but are conservative and thus ignored.

Just like this indigenous peoples group that wants to take the land run monument off of public lands. They are a small minority and there are tons of native Americans speaking out on social media that they don't want it removed. It's a group trying to take advantage of the climate of the day. Those talking about Mt. Rushmore. A small minority taking advantage of the indoctrinated left that think they must immediately side with any non-white "victim" group. So you see a large amount of "allies" helping make it seem like they are not a minority within their own people. I'm from a town in Western Oklahoma that had a lot of Indian people in it. The ones I see taking back and forth on social media are majority against removal of Mt. Rushmore. But their voices get drowned out by the liberal "allies". They are called traitors to their heritage.
More white liberals trying to tell a minority how they should feel.

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Once again there is a big difference between smoking weed in your parents basement and holding down a street corner. Once again, do you think the people in jail are innocent?
I think someone who is in jail for a non-violent crime that only impacts themselves shouldn't be.

No one is advocating for violent criminals to be let out. Again, the plurality of those in jail are for non-violent offenses.
I read somewhere that the vast majority of criminals jailed for simple possession received that penalty after accepting a plea for more serious crimes. I believe the study was performed in Oklahoma, but I can’t swear to it.


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wrenhal

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I can see that there would be effects, especially more abusive father's etc.. but there are many that escape that cycle so it isn't as cut and dry as that.

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I agree, there are plenty of people who escape from this, but nothing is in isolation. For some people who may be impacted by this issue, it can be combined with other risk factors which can make it incredibly difficult.
But see, rioting and looting, and tearing down statues, and beating white people and destroying their cars....... None of that is fixing anything.

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okstate987

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I read somewhere that the vast majority of criminals jailed for simple possession received that penalty after accepting a plea for more serious crimes. I believe the study was performed in Oklahoma, but I can’t swear to it.


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If you find the study, please share it.
 

wrenhal

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@okstate987 if you agree the BLM organization is Marxist, then by default can't you see how they are using local people to influence these groups into accomplishing their goals? These are not monolithic groups, but by using influence and sway, they are encouraging them to act monolithically using they're anger to invite violence. And it's not just BLM, there are Marxist/socialist/communist groups that are all working toward the same goal and using the anger of the black community to hide their purpose. Tearing down statues is only part of it.

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wrenhal

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That leads us back to Democrats and their control of places like Chicago, Detroit, and L.A..... for all their platitudes, what have they truly done for black people, other than keep them tired down to the inner cities and a cycle of poverty?

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I will be the first to say I am not an expert on those cities politics. Policing has been poor, crime high, people incarcerated very high also. The democrats provide lip service and very little in the way of actual change or experementation. I think it is similar to how the republicans talk about small government, but grow it at record rates. Neither political party really serves their constituents, more like holds them hostage ideologically. Its part of why we are in the position we are in.
But at the local level, breaking that Democrat hold, even if by voting in Republicans, is a start. Breaking the hold that Democrats have on the black voting block needs to be done and there are voices in the black community trying. But Al Sharron and Jesse Jackson, etc... get them all fired up to vote Democrat all the time.

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Oct 30, 2007
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Too simple.

Why are there a lack of fathers in African-Americans but not in African immigrants? Is that even true? Are there more single-family homes in descendants of slavery vs new immigrants?
65% of African American children grow up in a single parent household. Only 4% of Nigerian children grow up in a single parent household. I'm not that familiar with the country of Nigeria, but it appears that there's a vastly different culture there.

As mentioned earlier, welfare has played a big part in where we are today. 80% of African Americans lived in poverty in the 40's. That percentage had fallen steadily until the 60's when the war on poverty started and single parent households were incentavized. Then little progress was made for the next 30 years. Welfare was reformed in the 90's, but single parent households persisted. Only 25% of African American children were born out of wedlock in the 60's. Today that figure is 77%.

Statistics show that single parent household rates correlate strongly to things like education, employment, income, violent crime, & incarcerate rates. IMO, finding a way to lower single parent household rates is the key to fighting inequality. We're going to continue to see inequality of outcome until that happens.

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steross

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65% of African American children grow up in a single parent household. Only 4% of Nigerian children grow up in a single parent household. I'm not that familiar with the country of Nigeria, but it appears that there's a vastly different culture there.

As mentioned earlier, welfare has played a big part in where we are today. 80% of African Americans lived in poverty in the 40's. That percentage had fallen steadily until the 60's when the war on poverty started and single parent households were incentavized. Then little progress was made for the next 30 years. Welfare was reformed in the 90's, but single parent households persisted. Only 25% of African American children were born out of wedlock in the 60's. Today that figure is 77%.

Statistics show that single parent household rates correlate strongly to things like education, employment, income, violent crime, & incarcerate rates. IMO, finding a way to lower single parent household rates is the key to fighting inequality. We're going to continue to see inequality of outcome until that happens.

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Is that 4% Nigerians or Nigerian immigrants in our society?
 
Sep 22, 2011
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So if BLM had their way and we gave them everything they asked for, at what point can we expect the poor, male, young, fatherless 1.5% of the country to stop committing 60% of the crime?
 
Oct 30, 2007
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Is that 4% Nigerians or Nigerian immigrants in our society?
That's the overall single parent rate for the country of Nigeria. I'm not sure if we keep track of immigrant single parent household rates prior to leaving their original country. I wouldn't assume that it would be that much different though.
 

olderschool

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At what point will opposing BLM become racist if it’s not already.

Or is it not racist at all?


Black Lives Do Matter.
I believe way to many people of COLOR are Overly targeted by corrupt white law-enforcement for sport. I believe that this situation has gotten worse with the Militarization of law-enforcement. With thousands of solders returning from 20+ years of war entering the ranks of the police force.I believe it’s a national problem.

I support the cause to CHANGE this treatment of men and women of COLOR
Those that oppose this CHANGE are in my mind basically racist.
 
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