OSU Men's Basketball banned from postseason for 2020-21

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Mike D

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Dec 20, 2007
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Holy cow, I'll ask it one more time: How would the NCAA bust & then penalize ANY player or coach in real time??? The punishment is always, as in our legal system, going to come after the offense.

So when it takes time to investigate & find violations, & the coach & players have moved on, who else do you penalize but the institution responsible for overseeing it all? YOu don't think every single school would love to just be able to fire the coach, say "well, he's the one that did it" & just skate on down the line?

The player's gone, the coach has moved on, so nobody gets penalized at all? Your rules & enforcement are even more toothless if you allow the institutions themselves to completely get away with violations.
You punish the coach. Wherever he may be. If the university chooses to fire him to avoid penalties, then that’s a pretty good punishment too. You suspend any player involved as well. Why wouldn’t that work?
 
Jul 25, 2018
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yes penalty - for Lamont Evans. Why do the innocent parties need to be punished. If a criminal dies in the act of committing a crime, you can’t say “WELL SOMEONE STILL HAS TO BE PUNISHED” and go after their old employer.
I agree, the coaches involved need to be punished more often. Again, though, the NCAA doesn't have subpoena powers, so proving Eddie Sutton knew anything about the envelope for Chris Mills is tough business.

The rest of your response is, again, apples to oranges.
 
Jul 25, 2018
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You punish the coach. Wherever he may be. If the university chooses to fire him to avoid penalties, then that’s a pretty good punishment too. You suspend any player involved as well. Why wouldn’t that work?
When Pete Carroll's gone on to the Seahawks & Reggie Bush is in the NFL, did the violations at USC just NOT occur? Just, 'well shucks, we didn't catch 'em in the act'??
 

OctaviusRexLTH

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Aug 16, 2019
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I agree, the coaches involved need to be punished more often. Again, though, the NCAA doesn't have subpoena powers, so proving Eddie Sutton knew anything about the envelope for Chris Mills is tough business.

The rest of your response is, again, apples to oranges.
Fair enough...I’m just struggling to understand the purpose of punishing people who made the right call when they were privy to the information, other then sending a message saying, “see don’t mess with us, we lay down the hammer”. Funnily enough, in sports, it seems those that deserve the punishment pretty much walk free.

compared to many other infractions and disgusting allegations I’ve seen in collegiate sports....we’ve been hit way harder for way less than almost anyone
 

Mike D

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When Pete Carroll's gone on to the Seahawks & Reggie Bush is in the NFL, did the violations at USC just NOT occur? Just, 'well shucks, we didn't catch 'em in the act'??
In that one case where a coach breaks the rules and goes pro, then yes, there wouldn’t be a punishment. But how often do coaches jump from college to pro, especially the coach’s involved with recruiting. It would at least get riding the rif-raf over time. It wouldn’t be as punitive, but what’s the point of punitive if it isn’t to change unwanted behaviors. What’s the point in punishing OSU when it has been determined they couldn’t have done anything different as an institution. I imagine you would argue it as a deterrent to other schools. But it’s not the schools, it’s the coaches. I can’t think of a better way to deter young coaches from bending rules than to have penalties on their back that follows to any school they go to. They would be forced to go pro, which isn’t viable for most.
 
Jul 25, 2018
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Fair enough...I’m just struggling to understand the purpose of punishing people who made the right call when they were privy to the information, other then sending a message saying, “see don’t mess with us, we lay down the hammer”. Funnily enough, in sports, it seems those that deserve the punishment pretty much walk free.

compared to many other infractions and disgusting allegations I’ve seen in collegiate sports....we’ve been hit way harder for way less than almost anyone
As I've said from the beginning here, I'm not debating the severity of what they handed down. Matter of fact, it seems incredibly harsh in the light of other examples of rules violations we've seen.

All I'm saying is that the tired old line of 'you can't punish people who weren't there/didn't do this' sounds & feels great. In a practical sense, you have almost zero enforcement if the institutions themselves cannot be held accountable when they don't abide by the standards they all agreed upon.
 

OctaviusRexLTH

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As I've said from the beginning here, I'm not debating the severity of what they handed down. Matter of fact, it seems incredibly harsh in the light of other examples of rules violations we've seen.

All I'm saying is that the tired old line of 'you can't punish people who weren't there/didn't do this' sounds & feels great. In a practical sense, you have almost zero enforcement if the institutions themselves cannot be held accountable when they don't abide by the standards they all agreed upon.
While I don’t think you’re wrong, I’d be much more of a believer in it if it was done consistently. The NCAA seems to cherry pick which schools they want to retroactively punish.
 

OctaviusRexLTH

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Well the consistency's a whole 'nother discussion, but I agree.

"Retroactively punish' makes no sense, though. How else would it occur?
Ok that is redundant. Retroactive to the point that those responsible are long gone.

anything the NCAA does is complete bullshit until Baylor gets jettisoned straight into the sun. Their brass and big wigs knew damn well what evil was transpiring, but I guarantee you not all of em are gone
 

OctaviusRexLTH

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If it were OU, you'd feel the same way?
I’d probably laugh at OU, but I’d still think it’s bullshit lol. I might enjoy the fact that they were getting screwed over....but I’d still admit they’re getting screwed over.

I would feel bad for Lon Krueger and the team...I would just relentlessly stir the pot with the t-shirt fans
 
Oct 22, 2008
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It's sad how often the NCAA penalizes coaches & players that had absolutely nothing to do with the previous violations. I'm ready for the NCAA to be abolished.

Holy cow, I'll ask it one more time: How would the NCAA bust & then penalize ANY player or coach in real time??? The punishment is always, as in our legal system, going to come after the offense.

So when it takes time to investigate & find violations, & the coach & players have moved on, who else do you penalize but the institution responsible for overseeing it all? YOu don't think every single school would love to just be able to fire the coach, say "well, he's the one that did it" & just skate on down the line?

The player's gone, the coach has moved on, so nobody gets penalized at all? Your rules & enforcement are even more toothless if you allow the institutions themselves to completely get away with violations.
Dude we get it. We’re all stunned and pissed off and really crushed right now. Do you think you can go a little easier on us on this? We understand everything you’re saying and you’re right. Just let us have today to bitch and moan and take your satisfaction in being the rightest person on the internet today. But let us complain. Please?
 

PrincetonPoke23

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Old but retweet:
This already feels a lot like the Thayer Evans - OSU SI hit piece (except now from the NCAA). I still remember how our fan base came together and successfully pushed back on that garbage. Now is the time for us to retweet and make our feelings known. Others like Jay Bilas, Fran Fraschilla, and Evan Daniels have already spoken out. We need to make this injustice go viral.

 
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POPOKE

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Feb 7, 2007
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It's sad how often the NCAA penalizes coaches & players that had absolutely nothing to do with the previous violations. I'm ready for the NCAA to be abolished.

Holy cow, I'll ask it one more time: How would the NCAA bust & then penalize ANY player or coach in real time??? The punishment is always, as in our legal system, going to come after the offense.

So when it takes time to investigate & find violations, & the coach & players have moved on, who else do you penalize but the institution responsible for overseeing it all? YOu don't think every single school would love to just be able to fire the coach, say "well, he's the one that did it" & just skate on down the line?

The player's gone, the coach has moved on, so nobody gets penalized at all? Your rules & enforcement are even more toothless if you allow the institutions themselves to completely get away with violations.
You ever have an opinion, and then realize everyone else, literally everyone, in the room thinks you're an idiot? And they think you're an idiot because you're actually wrong?
 

CampusCowboy

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Oct 4, 2006
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Old but retweet:
This already feels a lot like the Thayer Evans - OSU SI hit piece (except now from the NCAA). I still remember how our fan base came together and successfully pushed back on that garbage. Now is the time for us to retweet and make our feelings known. Others like Jay Bilas, Fran Fraschilla, and Evan Daniels have already spoken out. We need to make this injustice go viral.

Since we are being penalized, this is reminding more of Dez Bryant and Andy Oliver than the Thayer hit piece.


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