Oklahoma State University is not committed to basketball success

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Ptak'sNewspaper

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#21
Not "baiting", not arguing - just a point to ponder.

Why would OSU have spent the huge amount of money to remodel and expand GIA if they did not intend to be successful in basketball? I think it was evident that wrestling success alone wouldn't carry the $$ load. I guess you could fault some of the execution, but not the intent for success.


Not that I care to post about our basketball program any more right now, but it is important to remember that Holder was not the AD when the GIA expansion happened.
 
Oct 30, 2007
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#22
The bad decisions we've made in the past have led to over a decade of mediocrity. Sean should've never been named HCIW, Coach Sutton should've never gotten behind the wheel of that car, Coach Ford should've never been given a lifetime contract after only one year of success with another coaches players, we should've paid Coach Underwood fair market value, and we shouldn't have hired an unproven coach to replace him after he left.

We can't go back and change the past, we have to look forward. I like Coach Boynton, and I want him to succeed. No one's happy with where we are today, but this team is starting to come together. I think we're going to have some success in the second half of conference play. I'll take stock of Coach Boynton whenever the season is over.

Go Pokes!
 
Aug 16, 2012
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#25
I will say that when you hold up the body of work of Mike Holder to TDP, it kind of pales in comparison.
That is insane. TDP got us the GIA improvements and

and

and

Miles????

TDP also gave us Frank Anderson for God's sake and was responsible for Sean Sutton being named head coach-in-waiting. He made no significant hires unless I am forgetting one, and the GIA improvements. Just the facility improvements under MH put him heads and tails above TDP and you can throw in Gundy, Holiday, and a whole host of recent coaches for tier-2 sports.
 

NotOnTV

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#26
That is insane. TDP got us the GIA improvements and

and

and

Miles????

TDP also gave us Frank Anderson for God's sake and was responsible for Sean Sutton being named head coach-in-waiting. He made no significant hires unless I am forgetting one, and the GIA improvements. Just the facility improvements under MH put him heads and tails above TDP and you can throw in Gundy, Holiday, and a whole host of recent coaches for tier-2 sports.
TDP set the stage, and Holder has made some very key errors in strategy that has left the big revenue programs eroding or stagnant. FWIW, TDP also helped set the stage for Clemson's success in football, as he had the vision to hire Dabo Swinney.
 
Aug 16, 2012
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#27
TDP set the stage, and Holder has made some very key errors in strategy that has left the big revenue programs eroding or stagnant. FWIW, TDP also helped set the stage for Clemson's success in football, as he had the vision to hire Dabo Swinney.
set the stage. What a crock. He did something or he did not. He did not set the stage for Gundy, or Holiday, or the IPF, new baseball field, soccer field, CC course, the list goes on and on and on. TDP had no significant hires and rode Sutton's BB success to expansion of GIA. GIA is his only significant, real, actual accomplishment while at OSU.
 
Aug 16, 2012
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#28
set the stage. What a crock. He did something or he did not. He did not set the stage for Gundy, or Holiday, or the IPF, new baseball field, soccer field, CC course, the list goes on and on and on. TDP had no significant hires and rode Sutton's BB success to expansion of GIA. GIA is his only significant, real, actual accomplishment while at OSU.
how the hell can you disagree with fact? Good God that was petty
 
Aug 16, 2012
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#31
Then I'll make it simple for you. Mike Holder has become an empty suit with all the business acumen of Bernie Ebbers.
You see BB and nothing else which is unfortunate. Suppose Nike just walked up to the AD offices and gave him truckloads of uniforms and pays us to wear them. Suppose Ping just decided to build the best NCAA golf course in the country because they thought the land was pretty nice. I am sure the Smith family knocked on door and ran away leaving a huge check to fund the IPF. O'Brate, Wadley, Wooten, etc. Yeah. He has no business acumen at all.

Whoever the hell Bernie Ebbers is.

Done. You do not have a clue what you are talking about.
 
Aug 16, 2012
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#32
You don't want to get snarky emojis, don't leave them. Petty...LOL...hypocrite.
You stated an opinion I disagreed with. I stated facts you refuse to accept. World of difference.

And BTW, your admission that you made the reaction simply because you received one is the very definition of petty
 
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Oct 30, 2007
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#33
I think you have to judge an AD by comparing the athletic department from the day they took over to the day they leave. You can make a strong argument that Coach Holder is the most successful AD in the history of the school based off this simple metric. Our facilities have gotten better continuously under Coach Holder. BPS & the IPF allow us to be competitive in football. The athletic village is awesome. We've seen significant facility upgrades in just about every sport. Best of all, most of it has been done without debt. He's also hired some excellent coaches in non-revenue sports.

I've been really frustrated at times by Coach Holder's handling of our men's basketball program, but he's made a lasting impact to our athletic department as a whole.
 
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#36
You see BB and nothing else which is unfortunate. Suppose Nike just walked up to the AD offices and gave him truckloads of uniforms and pays us to wear them. Suppose Ping just decided to build the best NCAA golf course in the country because they thought the land was pretty nice. I am sure the Smith family knocked on door and ran away leaving a huge check to fund the IPF. O'Brate, Wadley, Wooten, etc. Yeah. He has no business acumen at all.

Whoever the hell Bernie Ebbers is.

Done. You do not have a clue what you are talking about.
Agree 100%. Sure you can point out some mistakes, but what Holder has done for the university, while not taking a salary BTW, is truly remarkable. I literally cannot believe the improvements every time I go to Stillwater, and all paid for without the mountains of debt that other schools much larger than OSU have to take on to complete similar projects. I can't even really fault him for the basketball decisions aside from maybe the long Ford contract. We have the #1 recruit in the country signed and won the preseason NIT this year. Sure, we're struggling now, but I remember some pretty crappy Sutton teams as well. It wasn't all final fours and lollipops during those years. And honestly, if Holder had bucked the Suttons over hiring Sean, he would have been forced to resign. Eddie was king of OSU at that point in time, and that was going to happen regardless of who the AD would have been.
 

CowboyOrangeFan

Mmmm, yeah.
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#37
My $.02. There is no doubt Holder's overall contribution to our athletic department is a huge positive. We are better off having him as an AD than we would have been otherwise. However, he isn't a wizard that magically got all of these donations and made great financial decisions. In fact, he is pretty much the opposite of that. He, by most accounts, is a dick. A lot of big-time donors don't like him. He also made a couple of horrible financial decisions (borderline illegal) that led to Boone having to bail us out. Even though it was Boone's fund in which we lost the money. Wouldn't have been a huge deal if it hadn't have been other money, besides Boones, that was lost.

With that said, Holder did have a great relationship with Boone. Without him, we probably wouldn't have gotten as much from Boone as we did. Boone's donations led to those donors that may not necessarily like Holder, to open up and give large chunks of money. Because they saw how committed Boone was and how committed the department was. Plus the whole lead by example aspect that came from Boone's donations.

So, even though Holder is by some accounts a horrible manager and a pain in the ass to work for, he has been at the helm during an extremely transformative time at OSU. He has to get credit for that.

As far as his coaching hires? Meh. Kind of like hiring in any business. Some winners, some losers. Unfortunately, he hasn't really had any huge winners in basketball. Fingers crossed that Boynton gets it going next year.
 

wrenhal

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Aug 11, 2011
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#39
We have not made a Sweet 16 since 2004-05.

Annually we're in the bottom clump of teams in the Big 12 with Iowa State and TCU

We aren't developing NBA Players - Only Marcus Smart.

We aren't hiring established coaches - 1) Travis Ford left/was shown the door to coach in the Saint Louis and hasn't been back to a big program, 2) Brad Underwood seemed to be a good hire at the time, but time has shown he's more suited for mid-majors, 3) Mike Boynton says all the right things, but never coached before coming here, and hasn't won while here.

I think we can do better.
There's already 3 other threads about this. You just HAD to start another?

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wrenhal

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#40
I can't get people to come to Stillwater for games even when I offer them free tickets

The Thunder have ruined CBB in OK
Speaking of, does anyone have tickets for tomorrow? I can fill like 4 seats with people in Orange if you've got them.

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