Official Game Thread: Oklahoma State vs. Oklahoma

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Apr 7, 2006
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College football looks nothing like the other sports since it's all built to sustain the success of about 10 teams to ensure revenue for TV, coaches, conferences, etc.

OSU will never do much better than what they have now in terms of sustained success. Some of the teams the system was built for can't do that (Texas) , so with zero TV or political power and a small fan base we aren't doing it. We just have to acknowledge that we're a small market team in professional-college football.
 
Sep 29, 2011
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TCU?

66-44 since joining B12. 5 losing seasons in conference play, 3 winning seasons. Will probably have a losing season again this year.

UCF and USF? Group of 5 team? Get out of here. You’d want to fire Gundy for their record anyway. UCF 4-3, USF 0-6


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Once again, you have difficulty staying on topic. This is not about the record of any of them or if I would trade coaches.

The point being made was that those teams, with their limited budget and facilities, have managed to put together a couple of seasons since 2011 where they were in the conference driver seat and national discussion. Since 2011, OSU has not. Definition of a plateau.
No, that is my point. Nobody in their right mind would trade 5 or 6 losing seasons for a couple of competitive seasons.


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Rack

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His point is/was that Gundy was/is a pain in the ass off the field in almost all regards and is umapologetic for it.

Hes become so arrogamt with his comfort level of being untouchable at OSU that he has become outfront and in the public with it.

So.....
For it to be worth putting up with his off the field antics, there has to be a higher return on the field than would be asked otherwise.

They both work together

People have become tired of putting out his off the field fires, going to bat for him time after time, only to have him continue to come up with even more shenanigans, only to embarrass ourselves against OU and lose like we did to Texas.
Here's the thing...if we sucked you wouldn't even know of his "antics," when a tree falls in Siberia no one hears it....if that's what you want we need to let him go..because I'm afraid that's what will come.
 
Aug 16, 2012
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If we were a smarter program we would’ve ran with the covid rumors and canceled this game.
Sure this is just frustration, but, yeah...no.

We need to arrange this game to be played at the first of the season to get this annual loss out of the way and quit wasting the fans’ time and expectations.
That would be fun. Instead of taking the steps for getting to the table, let us lose out of the box so there is nothing to play for other than "Gundy is the winningest coach in OSU history". The rest of the season's games will be much more interesting and I am sure...well attended. Playing for nothing over a couple of years? See where that gets the program, or for that matter, the town of Stillwater.

Or better yet, leave this conference behind along with this yearly ass kicking.
So, the NCAA equivalent of taking our ball and going home. Got it.

OSU will not ever be sustainably competitive in this series.
Nobody is asking Gundy or the program to be. There is a lot of room between sustainably competitive and where we are now. Personally, I would be happy with 1:4. That is just one more win/decade and the program itself has shown in the past decade+ it SHOULD be closer to 1:3, to which I would be ecstatic.

Cutting losses will be best for everyone.
See third reply above.
 
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Jostate

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The best thing in the world would be beating OU and getting to watch the liberal OSU fans having to put up with Gundy. The second best thing in the world is losing to OU and getting to watch the liberal OSU fans having to put up with Gundy. It’s GOLD.


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Yeah, we're not cranky and divided enough already, good idea to introduce politics into the thread.

Post soon to be deleted anyway so I could include my social security number in here it wouldn't matter.
 
Nov 14, 2010
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Hate to break it to you but TCU and Baylor both have newer stadiums and similar budgets to us...they also have very very similar results over time. Oh, and you can think of them as lessor, but they BOTH have stronger recruiting territory and geography than we do.
Gary Patterson led TCU out of the obscurity of non Power 5 football.

They would have been SMU if not for his success.

So.....that University owes him an amount of gratitude that literally can never fully be measured.

What he has done for TCU far, far surpasses what Gundy has done at OSU.

And he did it without the momentum of Boone Pickens type massive influx of momentum.

Yes they have upgraded over the years, but so has everyone.

They have upgraded to keep up.
OSU was upgrading with Boone's money to get ahead.

Baylor has had 3 coaches and a major scandal to deal with, which was all on the heals of being one of the worst programs in Division 1 football for years.

Gundy was handed a program that had been to a Cotton Bowl, was in the Alamo Bowl the year he took over, was getting ready to have all of Boone's money, and.....

Well.....we've largely been an Alamo Bowl, with an occasional Cooton bowl type program, just like we we had become under Les before Gundy got here.
 
Aug 16, 2012
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Hate to break it to you but TCU and Baylor both have newer stadiums and similar budgets to us...they also have very very similar results over time. Oh, and you can think of them as lessor, but they BOTH have stronger recruiting territory and geography than we do.
First, I never mentioned Baylor. Their budget, while not divulged because they do not have to, it purported to be more than ours. TCU is in the same boat but as recently as 2018 their budget was reported to be in the $50-60 million range...not close.

But once again, way to digress from the topic. NOT ABOUT SUSTAINED RESULTS. They have proven that with "non-blue-blood-budgets" during our last foray into the national picture, they have managed to take lesser teams to a higher level upon occasion.

That one point.

One point only.
 
Nov 23, 2007
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I think that Gundy should get a decent haircut like a grownup and get a shot at one more season, just to see if there is some sort of reverse-Samson effect.

If that doesn’t work, it’s probably time to call Doug Gottlieb.
 
Aug 16, 2012
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No, that is my point. Nobody in their right mind would trade 5 or 6 losing seasons for a couple of competitive seasons.


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Fine, that is your point. That is not my point so why do you keep replying? I have never even remotely implied that those programs were better or I would trade for them. My point is that they have managed to be who they are and since 2011, have managed to string together a season or two that has been more successful than any of our individual seasons since then.

Odd thing is, you and Rack are actually making my point for me but do not realize it. Those are lesser programs that managed to get all their moons in a row for a brief period of time and have a stellar season. Gundy has not done that since 2011. Nobody is asking for this to happen year-in and year-out. But we have had the pieces in place several times since 2011 but did not follow through. Had those years played out like they should have, this would not even be a discussion.
 
Nov 14, 2010
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No, that is my point. Nobody in their right mind would trade 5 or 6 losing seasons for a couple of competitive seasons.


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I would rather be 7-5 in some rebuilding years to build to a championship year or 2 than be 8-4, 9-3 every year with a reduced ceiling.

The way Gundys has become conservative in recruiting, game plans, game management etc...has capped our ceiling.
 
Nov 14, 2010
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I feel where you're coming from.. I respectfully disagree regarding Gundy. Before he was hired as the head coach, OSU was a disaster of a football program.. the 90's were absolutely brutal to witness. Couldn't win a game to save a life.

Ever since Gundy became head coact, he turned the dumpster fire of a football program with an average of 9 wins a season. Quite frankly, what Gundy has achieved far exceeded my expectations.. I very much enjoy the success of the football program thanks to Gundy. Better enjoy the success while Gundy is still head coach.. it won't last after he retires

It's no fun losing Bedlam, no doubt... but to proclaim he should be fired is ridiculous. When he retires, OSU will become a carousel of up-and-comers. OSU simply will never be an elite program, nor is Stillwater a legitimate destination for the best talent coming out of high school.

Who would you hire to replace Mike?
OSU had been in the Cotton Bowl under Les and was in the Alamo bowl the year Les left.

Both coaches prior to Gundy found a way to beat OU.

Art Briles was going to stay at Baylor forever

So did Snyder at KState

Patterson has stayed at TCU and Campbell is still at Iowa State.

Making 5 million a year at a place like OSU, Iowa State etc...and having greater security is very appealing.
 

Rack

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Gary Patterson led TCU out of the obscurity of non Power 5 football.

They would have been SMU if not for his success.

So.....that University owes him an amount of gratitude that literally can never fully be measured.

What he has done for TCU far, far surpasses what Gundy has done at OSU.

Baylor has had 3 coaches and a major scandal to deal with, which was all on the heals of being one of the worst programs in Division 1 football for years.

Gundy was handed a program that had been to a Cotton Bowl, was in the Alamo Bowl the year he took over, was getting ready to have all of Boone's money, and.....

Well.....we've largely been an Alamo Bowl, with an occasional Cooton bowl type program, just like we we had become under Les before Gundy got here.
Just a couple facts...
OSU vs TCU
Total History OSU 16 wins - 2 ties - TCU 12 wins
Gundy vs Patterson - Gundy 5 wins Patterson 3 wins

2011 OSU accomplishments and record is a better record (less losses) than anything OU has accomplished since Gundy has been coach...OU hasn't had a season with less than 2 losses.

Since 1972, prior to Gundy we were 1-3 vs TCU

OSU vs Baylor
Total History OSU 20 wins - Baylor 18 wins
Gundy vs Baylor 8 - 6
Recent history isn't good due to cheating and a huge money surge into their facilities, recruiting, and coaching...psst...it's a dirty game.

Bottom line, you fail to see where we are...what we have been handed historically and that overcoming it is more than a head coach....FAR more. We have to break up the monopolies and level the playing field. ESPN and the conferences have to be made to comply to new rules that could level the field. IF we want a level playing field we have to create one...I don't think that's going to happen with the current system that encourages the status quo and is stacked against change.
 
Nov 14, 2010
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Just a couple facts...
OSU vs TCU
Total History OSU 16 wins - 2 ties - TCU 12 wins
Gundy vs Patterson - Gundy 5 wins Patterson 3 wins

2011 OSU accomplishments and record is a better record (less losses) than anything OU has accomplished since Gundy has been coach...OU hasn't had a season with less than 2 losses.

Since 1972, prior to Gundy we were 1-3 vs TCU

OSU vs Baylor
Total History OSU 20 wins - Baylor 18 wins
Gundy vs Baylor 8 - 6
Recent history isn't good due to cheating and a huge money surge into their facilities, recruiting, and coaching...psst...it's a dirty game.

Bottom line, you fail to see where we are...what we have been handed historically and that overcoming it is more than a head coach....FAR more. We have to break up the monopolies and level the playing field. ESPN and the conferences have to be made to comply to new rules that could level the field. IF we want a level playing field we have to create one...I don't think that's going to happen with the current system that encourages the status quo and is stacked against change.
Yes.....
You just made my point for me

Despite the fact that TCU wasn't even Power 5 before they entered the Big 12, didn't have the momentum of a Boone Pickens type insurgence, Patterson has found a way to do just about the same at TCU as Gundy has at OSU.

Likewise, despite the fact that Baylor was one of thw worst programs in Division 1 football, and without a Boone Pickens type insurgence, Art Briles figured out how to match is not surpass Gundy.

And....
They were in the Conference Championship game just last year with a different coach.

Gundy has been over achieved in both of those scenarios and this year Matt Campbell and Iowa State has beaten OU and are set to be in the Conference championship game.

Mike Leach beat OU much more regularly than Gundy has.

Its amazing how mesmorized some people have become by Gundy.

We are now back to just about exactly where we were in 2009 after we had went to Norman and laid an egg.

In that scenario, Gundy gave up pretty much all control of the offense and OSU took off.

Gundy is now 10 years older

Is he willing to completely reset like that?

Bob Stoops did with Lincoln Riley

Gundy has to put the ego down, give up control of the offense, and then go get the next Lincoln Riley to run his offense.

Or....retire

Either one

But....it really needs to be one or the other.
 
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Sep 29, 2011
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Hate to break it to you but TCU and Baylor both have newer stadiums and similar budgets to us...they also have very very similar results over time. Oh, and you can think of them as lessor, but they BOTH have stronger recruiting territory and geography than we do.
Gary Patterson led TCU out of the obscurity of non Power 5 football.

They would have been SMU if not for his success.

So.....that University owes him an amount of gratitude that literally can never fully be measured.

What he has done for TCU far, far surpasses what Gundy has done at OSU.

And he did it without the momentum of Boone Pickens type massive influx of momentum.

Yes they have upgraded over the years, but so has everyone.

They have upgraded to keep up.
OSU was upgrading with Boone's money to get ahead.

Baylor has had 3 coaches and a major scandal to deal with, which was all on the heals of being one of the worst programs in Division 1 football for years.

Gundy was handed a program that had been to a Cotton Bowl, was in the Alamo Bowl the year he took over, was getting ready to have all of Boone's money, and.....

Well.....we've largely been an Alamo Bowl, with an occasional Cooton bowl type program, just like we we had become under Les before Gundy got here.
Patterson has done great things for TCU. But since putting on the big boy pants, he’s gone 42-37 in conference with 5 (6 if he loses to us this year) losing seasons. During that same time frame, Gundy is 48-30 with 2 losing seasons.

Using TCU as an example of doing as much or more with less is silly.


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Rack

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Fine, that is your point. That is not my point so why do you keep replying? I have never even remotely implied that those programs were better or I would trade for them. My point is that they have managed to be who they are and since 2011, have managed to string together a season or two that has been more successful than any of our individual seasons since then.

Odd thing is, you and Rack are actually making my point for me but do not realize it. Those are lesser programs that managed to get all their moons in a row for a brief period of time and have a stellar season. Gundy has not done that since 2011. Nobody is asking for this to happen year-in and year-out. But we have had the pieces in place several times since 2011 but did not follow through. Had those years played out like they should have, this would not even be a discussion.
@OSUinTX, look at our results since 2011
FOUR 10 wins seasons
NINE bowls in a row...five bowl victories vs three bowl losses
Dude, it's our best 8/9 years in our history. I know that's not what you want to hear, but it's the truth.
 
Nov 14, 2010
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Patterson has done great things for TCU. But since putting on the big boy pants, he’s gone 42-37 in conference with 5 (6 if he loses to us this year) losing seasons. During that same time frame, Gundy is 48-30 with 2 losing seasons.

Using TCU as an example of what more can be done with less is silly.


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Again....they were not even Power 5 when they entered the conference

Nor did they have a Boone Pickens

Using TCU and the obstacles they've overcome, Baylor, Snyder, Campbell etc... is to show that others have done as much, or close to as much, with less than Gundy has at OSU.

Gundy was handed way more than these people/programs.
 
Sep 29, 2011
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No, that is my point. Nobody in their right mind would trade 5 or 6 losing seasons for a couple of competitive seasons.


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I would rather be 7-5 in some rebuilding years to build to a championship year or 2 than be 8-4, 9-3 every year with a reduced ceiling.

The way Gundys has become conservative in recruiting, game plans, game management etc...has capped our ceiling.
That’s what they said, and keep saying, in Austin, Lincoln, Tallahassee, Ann Arbor, College Station, Knoxville, Miami, Los Angeles, Columbia, Columbia, Fayetteville, Tempe, Tucson, Boulder, Chapel Hill, Oxford, Starkville, Pullman, Berkley, etc...


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Rack

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Yes.....
You just made my point for me

Despite the fact that TCU wasn't even Power 5 before they entered the Big 12, didn't have the momentum of a Boone Pickens type insurgence, Patterson has found a way to do just about the same at TCU as Gundy has at OSU.

Likewise, despite the fact that Baylor was one of thw worst programs in Division 1 football, and without a Boone Pickens type insurgence, Art Briles figured out how to match is not surpass Gundy.

And....
They were in the Conference Championship game just last year with a different coach.

Gundy has been over achieved in both of those scenarios and this year Matt Campbell and Iowa State has beaten OU and are set to be in the Conference championship game.

Mike Leach beat OU much more regularly than Gundy has.

Its amazing how mesmorized some people have become by Gundy.

We are now back to just about exactly where we were in 2009 after we had went to Norman and laid an egg.

In that scenario, Gundy gave up pretty much all control of the offense and OSU took off.

Gundy is now 10 years older

Is he willing to completely reset like that?

Bob Stoops did with Lincoln Riley

Gundy has to put the ego down, give up control of the offense, and then go get the next Lincoln Riley to run his offense.

Or....retire

Either one

But....it really needs to be one or the other.
Just a few facts...

Mike Leach vs Mike Gundy...Gundy 3, Leach 2...we are 21 and 23 vs Tech over history with the Gundy tenure being the difference or it's one sided for Tech...Pre Gundy we were 10 wins to 18 wins for Tech.

Matt Campbell is a good coach with a losing record vs Mike Gundy teams are 4 and 1 so far vs Matt Campbell...Matt's a great coach, but Mike's not going to lose to ISU consistently.

Art Briles was an amazing recruiter of rapist and scumbags...their program should have received a harsher penalty, but instead they have been allowed to build off of cheating...we should not speak of him here.
 
Sep 8, 2014
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Yes.....
You just made my point for me

Despite the fact that TCU wasn't even Power 5 before they entered the Big 12, didn't have the momentum of a Boone Pickens type insurgence, Patterson has found a way to do just about the same at TCU as Gundy has at OSU.

Likewise, despite the fact that Baylor was one of thw worst programs in Division 1 football, and without a Boone Pickens type insurgence, Art Briles figured out how to match is not surpass Gundy.

And....
They were in the Conference Championship game just last year with a different coach.

Gundy has been over achieved in both of those scenarios and this year Matt Campbell and Iowa State has beaten OU and are set to be in the Conference championship game.

Mike Leach beat OU much more regularly than Gundy has.

Its amazing how mesmorized some people have become by Gundy.

We are now back to just about exactly where we were in 2009 after we had went to Norman and laid an egg.

In that scenario, Gundy gave up pretty much all control of the offense and OSU took off.

Gundy is now 10 years older

Is he willing to completely reset like that?

Bob Stoops did with Lincoln Riley

Gundy has to put the ego down, give up control of the offense, and then go get the next Lincoln Riley to run his offense.

Or....retire

Either one

But....it really needs to be one or the other.
All this times infinity...
 
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