Official Game Thread: Oklahoma State vs. Baylor

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Oct 7, 2009
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I don't want to minimize Pickens' donation but an argument could be made that, since his association, the Football record still isn't close to favoring Okla State against the Sooners.

And OU's the measuring stick, like it or not. They have an 87-18-7 record against Okla State. Fancy locker rooms and, more importantly, the OU staff's much longer history of producing NFL players should mean far more to any prospect than a shiny locker room. I don't know if that's true - but I'd say any recruit that was swayed by shiny baubles probably isn't the type of player that's going to be important to a winning football program.

At least we own Texas. We've played our one game this season. Gundy's happy about that.
 

RxCowboy

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And you're deliberately deflecting from what the obvious point was. Unless you think that the person's original point was literal, and they're claiming that that Boone Pickens himself walked up to Mike Gundy and handed him hundreds of millions of physical dollars, and THAT is the main reason why he's had so much success. Because everyone but you seems to know what that person meant.
Coach Gundy wasn't really handed hundreds of millions of dollar, but he was given what he needed to succeed at a high level. The total cost of renovations to BPS came to $326M. The indoor facility was $20M. My guess is we've had about $350 to $400 million total invested in football facilities since the renovation of Lewis field began.

I'm pretty sure this article is inaccurate. Oklahoma State's investment in the hedge fund grew to over $400 million before the financial crisis. I'm fairly certain that we pulled the money out around $120-$130 million before it went to zero. Then Boone Pickens made additional donations so that we could finish the stadium without debt.

I still don't understand how this happened. The very definition of a hedge fund is to hedge your investments against huge losses. It seems more like this fund was far over leveraged instead of hedged.

Edit: We did pull out at $125 million.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304782404577488592793245510
To pay off loans we had taken against it, apparently with more money from Pickens to cover the losses. But my original point remains. Gundy wasn't handed hundreds of millions to do with what he wants. That money is gone.

So, here's the reality:
http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/

Revenue
1. Texas $214,830,
7. Oklahoma $155, 238,481

27 West Virginia $110,565,870

36. Kansas $95,251,461
40. Oklahoma State $91,644,865
43. Texas Tech $88,804,476
45. Kansas State $86,081,528
50. Iowa State $82,659,447

(Note: Baylor and TCU are private schools and not required to report revenue)

Football stadium capacity
Darrell K Royal Stadium 100,119
Gaylord Family Stadium 86,112 (would be small in the SEC)
Boone Pickens Stadium 56,790

That's where we sit resources-wise, in the middle of the Big 12 pack. The idea that Gundy has the resources to compete with OU and Texas is simply ludicrous. Ticket sales for football and basketball are our primary sources of revenue. With our current stadium capacity we cannot increase ticket prices enough to get our revenue into the range to compete with OU and Texas, and increasing our capacity to 80k is a fantasy.

Boone Pickens money bought us out of the basement. It did not come close to buying us into the top tier. Maybe if the hedge fund hadn't tanked, but it did.
 
Oct 30, 2007
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Hush with facts and logic. He's almost got his strawman into submission.
RX is really sharp, but that article is garbage. It's presenting incorrect assumptions as fact.

Coach Gundy has been given everything he needs are far as facilities. But the last time I checked, our recruiting budget was in the middle of the Big 12. I'm not sure our assistant coaching budget is quite where it needs to be either. I'm hopeful that Coach Gundy will stop using the leverage of other jobs to line his pockets, and use it to fund these two spots.
 
Jun 4, 2014
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Well, right, so pining for Miles gets us what, exactly? Three yards and a cloud of field-play pellets offense? A grass eater? What would it improve?
I don't think bringing Miles back is a wise decision, and I'm not sure if anyone is actually arguing for that. But I do understand the argument that he could have brought the program the same or more success than Gundy based on his tenure here. We will never know, so it doesn't make sense to bicker about it, but message boards are message boards. :popcorn:

Also of note, noticed that there was some buzz around him taking the Kansas job. Seems like a solid Charlie Weis repeat scenario.

In my opinion the next coach should have little to no ties with OSU. So many of the hurdles that OSU faces are mental/perception based on history in the 20th century. That time is almost 20 years removed. A lot changes in 20 years, let alone 1.That coach should then surround himself with coaches familiar with the area for recruiting.
 
Oct 30, 2007
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To pay off loans we had taken against it, apparently with more money from Pickens to cover the losses. But my original point remains. Gundy wasn't handed hundreds of millions to do with what he wants. That money is gone.

So, here's the reality:
http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/

Revenue
1. Texas $214,830,
7. Oklahoma $155, 238,481

27 West Virginia $110,565,870

36. Kansas $95,251,461
40. Oklahoma State $91,644,865
43. Texas Tech $88,804,476
45. Kansas State $86,081,528
50. Iowa State $82,659,447

(Note: Baylor and TCU are private schools and not required to report revenue)

Football stadium capacity
Darrell K Royal Stadium 100,119
Gaylord Family Stadium 86,112 (would be small in the SEC)
Boone Pickens Stadium 56,790

That's where we sit resources-wise, in the middle of the Big 12 pack. The idea that Gundy has the resources to compete with OU and Texas is simply ludicrous. Ticket sales for football and basketball are our primary sources of revenue. With our current stadium capacity we cannot increase ticket prices enough to get our revenue into the range to compete with OU and Texas, and increasing our capacity to 80k is a fantasy.

Boone Pickens money bought us out of the basement. It did not come close to buying us into the top tier. Maybe if the hedge fund hadn't tanked, but it did.
Those revenue rankings are interesting. West Virginia's ranking seems to be an anomaly. Their total revenue is more than $30 million over their operating expenses. My guess is that money is from donations earmarked for facility improvements like we had during the BPS renovation.

We could probably move up to 3rd in the Big 12 if we got our basketball program back up to snuff. But even then, we would still be 50% below OU and 100% below UT. It's tough to compete financially with the blue-bloods.
 

RxCowboy

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I don't want to minimize Pickens' donation but an argument could be made that, since his association, the Football record still isn't close to favoring Okla State against the Sooners.

And OU's the measuring stick, like it or not. They have an 87-18-7 record against Okla State. Fancy locker rooms and, more importantly, the OU staff's much longer history of producing NFL players should mean far more to any prospect than a shiny locker room. I don't know if that's true - but I'd say any recruit that was swayed by shiny baubles probably isn't the type of player that's going to be important to a winning football program.

At least we own Texas. We've played our one game this season. Gundy's happy about that.
Their lockerroom. Every damn team has fancy lockerrooms.
1541437662393.png


Kansas football lockerroom:
1541437710709.png
 

RxCowboy

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We could probably move up to 3rd in the Big 12 if we got our basketball program back up to snuff. But even then, we would still be 50% below OU and 100% below UT. It's tough to compete financially with the blue-bloods.
That's just it, I don't think we can. I don't think the state has enough money to support to tier 1 programs. And even if it did, OU wouldn't be OU without Texas school boy talent. Could we draw enough Texas school boy talent into Oklahoma to support two tier 1 programs? Or would it water down both? Unfortunately, unless we find an untapped trove of Boones I don't think we'll ever find out.
 
Jun 4, 2014
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We should go to Vegas and put it all on red. Instant cash injection.

Serious question, can we put sponsors on our jerseys? We should really look at alternative forms of income outside of TV and tickets/merchandise sales. Sell that space, and we should be able to bring in at least an extra 30 million in straight profit.
 
Oct 30, 2007
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That's just it, I don't think we can. I don't think the state has enough money to support to tier 1 programs. And even if it did, OU wouldn't be OU without Texas school boy talent. Could we draw enough Texas school boy talent into Oklahoma to support two tier 1 programs? Or would it water down both? Unfortunately, unless we find an untapped trove of Boones I don't think we'll ever find out.
We started endowing athletic scholarships several years ago. Every single scholarship that gets endowed frees up extra revenue in the budget. That should help a little bit. What really has to happen to compete with the big boys is to build an upper level of seats to BPS.

Adding a 3rd level to BPS may sound like a pipe-dream, but it's been in the long term plans for quite awhile. I heard that they prepared the foundation to support a 3rd level whenever they renovated the stadium. The tough thing is getting the demand up to a point where it's justified to add 20-25K more seats to the stadium. We aren't filling it consistently now.

I hope we see that dream realized some day. We just have to keep pushing forward and hope for the best.
 

RxCowboy

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We started endowing athletic scholarships several years ago. Every single scholarship that gets endowed frees up extra revenue in the budget. That should help a little bit. What really has to happen to compete with the big boys is to build an upper level of seats to BPS.

Adding a 3rd level to BPS may sound like a pipe-dream, but it's been in the long term plans for quite awhile. I heard that they prepared the foundation to support a 3rd level whenever they renovated the stadium. The tough thing is getting the demand up to a point where it's justified to add 20-25K more seats to the stadium. We aren't filling it consistently now.

I hope we see that dream realized some day. We just have to keep pushing forward and hope for the best.
Yeah, filling it would be the trick. I just don't see it happening, at least not any time soon. People b*tch about ticket prices as it is, and that is what generates the revenue that gives Gundy the resources... etc.

OU endows athletic scholarships, too, as do all the tier 1 programs. Anything we're doing revenue-wise everyone else is doing too. We aren't doing anything unique.

http://www.crimsontidefoundation.org/donor-recognition/Endowments.aspx
 
Last edited:
Dec 20, 2015
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SW OKLA
I don't want to minimize Pickens' donation but an argument could be made that, since his association, the Football record still isn't close to favoring Okla State against the Sooners.

And OU's the measuring stick, like it or not. They have an 87-18-7 record against Okla State. Fancy locker rooms and, more importantly, the OU staff's much longer history of producing NFL players should mean far more to any prospect than a shiny locker room. I don't know if that's true - but I'd say any recruit that was swayed by shiny baubles probably isn't the type of player that's going to be important to a winning football program.

At least we own Texas. We've played our one game this season. Gundy's happy about that.
But the players LOVE the uniform combinations. That’s what seals the deal. :oops:
 
Oct 7, 2009
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RX displayed two photos of OU's and KU's locker-room-a-rama's, and I just wonder - "Is that what makes good players? Laying around on the deck, admiring with Oohs and Ahhs of some ceiling art? Of all the glitzy lighting and butler-tuxedos?" I'm not sure "Soft Cushy Life" is what is best for teaching professional football skills.

I know this is a Keepin' Up With The Joneses issue but one of these days, someone's gonna think twice about this. "Is the recruit that gets wowed over THIS really the recruit that's best for a football team?"

Of course, the retort can be, "Yeah, but if all of them get sucked into such scams, what choice do we have?"

I think of the criticism of "soft football programs" is making a whole lotta sense. Good work, RX...
 
Oct 7, 2009
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But the players LOVE the uniform combinations. That’s what seals the deal. :oops:
Yeah... I remember the years that Baylor players loved Coach Kevin Steele's soft-ice-cream machine in the locker room, too. The Salukis of Southern Illinois was his biggest career win in 4 years. They kept him 3 years and 9 games too long.

I await for the time when the pendulum swings back and teams are filled with players who appreciate One Uni on the road, and One at home. I tell ya, I would appreciate those li'l NASCAR word-balloon pointers, though, above players... I could click on a player, get that balloon to pop up on my TV or screen, read all about that player... tackles, INTs, personal fouls, arrest records... everything that's important. "My favorite flavor is..." Holy Playmate, Batman... is that really the goal to shoot for?!!
 

Rack

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Oct 13, 2004
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I don't think bringing Miles back is a wise decision, and I'm not sure if anyone is actually arguing for that. But I do understand the argument that he could have brought the program the same or more success than Gundy based on his tenure here. We will never know, so it doesn't make sense to bicker about it, but message boards are message boards. :popcorn:

Also of note, noticed that there was some buzz around him taking the Kansas job. Seems like a solid Charlie Weis repeat scenario.

In my opinion the next coach should have little to no ties with OSU. So many of the hurdles that OSU faces are mental/perception based on history in the 20th century. That time is almost 20 years removed. A lot changes in 20 years, let alone 1.That coach should then surround himself with coaches familiar with the area for recruiting.
We have the right coach in place...we need more fans...it's been our problem forever and continues to be. we have solved the facilities issues and the coaches salary/turnover problems...going back to the old bag of coaching change isn't the answer at this point it time. The AD started serving beer and instituted a no re-entry policy in a rebuilding year...why? He knows our problem is lack of fans and the revenue produced by them. He's trying to milk revenue out of a tired Cow...Hopefully he knows that she can't go on the auto-milker twice daily or Betsy is going to dry up and no amount of Udder Balm is going to fix the problem.
 

Birry

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Feb 6, 2007
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We have the right coach in place...we need more fans...it's been our problem forever and continues to be. we have solved the facilities issues and the coaches salary/turnover problems...going back to the old bag of coaching change isn't the answer at this point it time. The AD started serving beer and instituted a no re-entry policy in a rebuilding year...why? He knows our problem is lack of fans and the revenue produced by them. He's trying to milk revenue out of a tired Cow...Hopefully he knows that she can't go on the auto-milker twice daily or Betsy is going to dry up and no amount of Udder Balm is going to fix the problem.
Just win.

But if you can't win, at least make it entertaining, competitive, and give people reason to hope for something better. This season has been inconsistent with the first two and downright detrimental to the last one.
 
Oct 6, 2007
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We started endowing athletic scholarships several years ago. Every single scholarship that gets endowed frees up extra revenue in the budget. That should help a little bit. What really has to happen to compete with the big boys is to build an upper level of seats to BPS.

Adding a 3rd level to BPS may sound like a pipe-dream, but it's been in the long term plans for quite awhile. I heard that they prepared the foundation to support a 3rd level whenever they renovated the stadium. The tough thing is getting the demand up to a point where it's justified to add 20-25K more seats to the stadium. We aren't filling it consistently now.

I hope we see that dream realized some day. We just have to keep pushing forward and hope for the best.
In the meantime, how do we go about continuing to upgrade our existing facilities. The early renovations are now nearly 10 years old and aren’t going to look new forever. Where is that money going to come from? OU has done 2 major expansions in the last 10 years.