Official Game Thread: Iowa State vs. Oklahoma State

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Sep 23, 2018
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Yeah, you can cherry pick a Georgia, but for everyone of them, there are two or three Nebraskas, TAMU's, UCLAs, etc. Nebraska certainly was a blueblood, but fired Solich for 9 wins.
But for the sake of the argument, wouldn't you say we're basically in the same exact position UGA was for Richt's last few years? Always getting *this close* to winning the conference championship, only to be upended by OU every time, or lose that one disappointing "Iowa State Game" where nobody was prepared? That's why I used Georgia, specifically.
 
Apr 27, 2006
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I am sure we can't afford to fire him, but we damn sure should make it clear that if he can't do better than he is, he is more than welcome to leave. Should there ever be a new contract, compensation should be based on a dollars per game won, maybe that will help his perspective, motivation, and decision making.
 
Oct 30, 2007
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Yeah, you can cherry pick a Georgia, but for everyone of them, there are two or three Nebraskas, TAMU's, UCLAs, etc. Nebraska certainly was a blueblood, but fired Solich for 9 wins.
Solich inherited a program that had won a national championship in 3 of the 4 previous seasons. Nebraska should've fired him sooner. The problem is they haven't hired a great coach since Osborne. Making a coaching change doesn't help if you AD isn't good enough to go out and hire a better coach.
 
Feb 18, 2009
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well that's why the DC lost his job...and they weren't our best team ever (that was 2011).
And 2011 had a different OC who was 10x better than who we have now. Which is who we’re talking about in the thread.

It’s way bigger than an o line issue. There is talent on the field. Simple fact is ISU and their freshman QB were better at running the offense we say we run.
 
Apr 27, 2006
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And 2011 had a different OC who was 10x better than who we have now. Which is who we’re talking about in the thread.

It’s way bigger than an o line issue. There is talent on the field. Simple fact is ISU and their freshman QB were better at running the offense we say we run.
Their coaches and entire team are better at what they do than we are. Imagine what Campbell could do with the support and dollars we allocate to football.
 
Jan 21, 2006
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But for the sake of the argument, wouldn't you say we're basically in the same exact position UGA was for Richt's last few years? Always getting *this close* to winning the conference championship, only to be upended by OU every time, or lose that one disappointing "Iowa State Game" where nobody was prepared? That's why I used Georgia, specifically.
The greater question is could OSU hire a better coach? GA may have gotten lucky with Smart, but a lot more have missed. Let's see how "allstar hires" like Edwards (ASU) or Kelly(UCLA) do.
 
Sep 23, 2018
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As far as coach Gundy, do I "think" he's reached "his" ceiling? No it's more that I think he has enabled the school to surpass it's ceiling historically speaking.
That is a heck of a way of saying what I said, but in a different way.

So now that we have surpassed our ceiling, "historically speaking", we're done? Is that what you're implying? That this is the best it's ever going to be?

We have a guy who has gone 2-11 against OU. And the only reason we won one of those is because OU didn't have their best QB, and Tyreek Hill bailed us out and went absolute beast mode. Does this not bother you? Remember last season's game, in particular, when we had the ball in the red zone, and Justice was having a great game relatively speaking, and scoring would have given us the lead...and Gundy and crew decided to throw it? In the words of Jim Leyland, you go with your horse (paraphrasing). That play was a microcosm of why Gundy's approach to Bedlam aggravates me to no end.

Also, you really want to go into Gundy's bowl record? Because I'd love to. I'd love to talk about his inability to win "big" bowls like the Cotton Bowl, which he has lost every single time he has gone. The Fiesta Bowl, if we're going to be really fair here, was basically given to us because Stanford's kicker decided to lose the ability to kick field goals at the end of the game. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad he did, but, put someone else in there, and our conversation takes a slightly different direction. I don't know about you, but the Camping World Bowl, or the Liberty Bowl, or the Alamo Bowl, etc. is pointless. We get it Gundy...good job...you get us in a bowl every year. But at what point do we realize that it's increasingly pointless to drive to Orlando or wherever else for a lower-tier bowl game, because we know we can be better than that? I think we're starting to reach that point. At least, I hope so.
 

Birry

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Feb 6, 2007
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....because we know we can be better than that? I think we're starting to reach that point. At least, I hope so.
You have two very distinct groups of OSU fans right now: those who knew about OSU football prior to about 2001 and those who didn't. They yhave VERY different expectations based on their experience since watching OSU.

The older fanbase seems perfectly content with losing to OU every year and making a bowl. The younger group isn't cool with that and wants more.

I'm decidedly in the latter group.
 
Apr 14, 2018
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You have two very distinct groups of OSU fans right now: those who knew about OSU football prior to about 2001 and those who didn't. They yhave VERY different expectations based on their experience since watching OSU.

The older fanbase seems perfectly content with losing to OU every year and making a bowl. The younger group isn't cool with that and wants more.

I'm decidedly in the latter group.
That might be true overall, but I know fans in the older age group that have the same view as us.
 
Nov 16, 2013
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You have two very distinct groups of OSU fans right now: those who knew about OSU football prior to about 2001 and those who didn't. They yhave VERY different expectations based on their experience since watching OSU.

The older fanbase seems perfectly content with losing to OU every year and making a bowl. The younger group isn't cool with that and wants more.

I'm decidedly in the latter group.
You missed the 3rd group, those of us that have been fans since before 2001 and are tired of being satisfied with bowl games and just having winning seasons.
 

Rack

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Oct 13, 2004
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That is a heck of a way of saying what I said, but in a different way.

So now that we have surpassed our ceiling, "historically speaking", we're done? Is that what you're implying? That this is the best it's ever going to be?

We have a guy who has gone 2-11 against OU. And the only reason we won one of those is because OU didn't have their best QB, and Tyreek Hill bailed us out and went absolute beast mode. Does this not bother you? Remember last season's game, in particular, when we had the ball in the red zone, and Justice was having a great game relatively speaking, and scoring would have given us the lead...and Gundy and crew decided to throw it? In the words of Jim Leyland, you go with your horse (paraphrasing). That play was a microcosm of why Gundy's approach to Bedlam aggravates me to no end.

Also, you really want to go into Gundy's bowl record? Because I'd love to. I'd love to talk about his inability to win "big" bowls like the Cotton Bowl, which he has lost every single time he has gone. The Fiesta Bowl, if we're going to be really fair here, was basically given to us because Stanford's kicker decided to lose the ability to kick field goals at the end of the game. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad he did, but, put someone else in there, and our conversation takes a slightly different direction. I don't know about you, but the Camping World Bowl, or the Liberty Bowl, or the Alamo Bowl, etc. is pointless. We get it Gundy...good job...you get us in a bowl every year. But at what point do we realize that it's increasingly pointless to drive to Orlando or wherever else for a lower-tier bowl game, because we know we can be better than that? I think we're starting to reach that point. At least, I hope so.
Blast - You do know that the bedlam pass wasn't a called play from the OC or head coach prior to the play right? In our RPO offense, especially last year, the QB is in charge and those plays AND they are nearly exclusively called on the field not the sideline or in the booth...so if you want be upset with that play call you need to phone MR and ask him why he did that.

No I don't like that Gundy has only won twice vs ou, but I love that we have been in position to win in that game more than we have with any other coach in our history. I also realize that Jimmy Johnson never beat ou while at Oklahoma State nor did Pat Jones. We haven't been great against them in our entire history and indeed that is the last element that has kept Gundy from extreme adulation in the eyes of part of our fan-base...Kind of like Eddie Sutton and KU...oops, people love Sutton despite his record vs KU...go figure?

Bowl Games? He's 8-4 with the losses mostly coming from Ole Miss whom we have not played well against. Last year he beat Virginia Tech, the year before a 10 win Colorado team, a few years prior we beat Washington in a bowl, hell one time he beat Bama. So no, I disagree that the lower tier bowls are "pointless." After all up until Gundys involvement we had only been to like two of the New years day bowls in our entire history (in 1945 and 46) so NO they aren't "pointless" for our program, not at all. We get extra practice time and we get to reward the student athletes with a good trip for all their hard work every year.

Yep, I'm an old guy and I do love your optimism, but I guess I've been around so long I do sort of start to see it as folly. I don't think we can get there until we grow our fanbase and we can't grow our fanbase with some people until we get there...so it's sort of a catch 22. I love that you want us to win so badly that you think that a head coaching change is what needs to happen in order for us to do it, the problem is that I don't see that as being a solution but actually more of an impediment to exactly what we all want.
 
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Birry

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You missed the 3rd group, those of us that have been fans since before 2001 and are tired of being satisfied with bowl games and just having winning seasons.
Sorry for the omission. I'm not normally a "two types of people" person. Should have said it seems like there are two primary groups.
 

Rack

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Oct 13, 2004
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You have two very distinct groups of OSU fans right now: those who knew about OSU football prior to about 2001 and those who didn't. They yhave VERY different expectations based on their experience since watching OSU.

The older fanbase seems perfectly content with losing to OU every year and making a bowl. The younger group isn't cool with that and wants more.

I'm decidedly in the latter group.
That's not really true...NO ONE is "content with losing to OU every year and making a bowl." We all, no matter our age, want more...some of us are just more realistic and actually know that we are in the best decade of our performance as a football program in our history and choose to enjoy it even if we lose a few games here and there. Our experience does make us less ou fanlike in that we can enjoy success even if it's NOT a national championship, CFP, or even a NY6 bowl year. We realize where we have come from and appreciate where we are...None of us like that we lost to ISU or Tech and ALL OF US expect better.
 

Birry

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Feb 6, 2007
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That's not really true...NO ONE is "content with losing to OU every year and making a bowl." We all, no matter our age, want more...some of us are just more realistic and actually know that we are in the best decade of our performance as a football program in our history and choose to enjoy it even if we lose a few games here and there. Our experience does make us less ou fanlike in that we can enjoy success even if it's NOT a national championship, CFP, or even a NY6 bowl year. We realize where we have come from and appreciate where we are...None of us like that we lost to ISU or Tech and ALL OF US expect better.
So which parts are you enjoying currently? And if you expect better, what should change?
 

pennpoke

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Feb 16, 2012
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Sorry for the omission. I'm not normally a "two types of people" person. Should have said it seems like there are two primary groups.
I've followed osu since attending in the 80s. I feel about Gundy the same now as when he was hired. Meh. He's highly overrated for how much success we've had.

Could we do better? Maybe. But it would be a challenge to do so and if we did it wouldn't be for long as anyone with serious success here would be gone in a heartbeat to bigger and better programs. You can see how hard it is to do in hoops and we have way more credibility as a hoops elite program than in football.
 

Rack

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Oct 13, 2004
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So which parts are you enjoying currently?
I enjoyed last years Bowl game win over VT and the Boise State game this year. I greatly enjoyed us winning all those road games last year and beating Texas for a record fourth straight time in Austin, something no other team has ever done! I loved our win over Colorado in the Alamo Bowl the year prior. Loved the WVU win on the road last year...greatly enjoyed the wins at Tech and Iowa State last year as well. IMHO if we aren't having fun watching the past few years it's not the teams/coaches fault it's our lack of perspective and context. Loved the Bedlam win in Mason's Freshmen year and loved the Bowl victory that year over Washington. See it's easy for me to find highlights. Actually the entire Gundy tenure has been a lot of fun. Honestly it was more fun early on when we had less entitlement and less success because our fanbase seemingly enjoyed it all the more. That's the price of success...high expectations. I personally love when we have lower ones and exceed them...like we did in 2010. I know for some that's been a while but to me that seems like a few days ago. When you have followed a team for over 40 years it gives you perspective and appreciation. Sure I want more and all, but perspective enables me to enjoy what we have had recently.
 
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Sep 8, 2014
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Blast - You do know that the bedlam pass wasn't a called play from the OC or head coach prior to the play right? In our RPO offense, especially last year, the QB is in charge and those plays AND they are nearly exclusively called on the field not the sideline or in the booth...so if you want be upset with that play call you need to phone MR and ask him why he did that.

No I don't like that Gundy has only won twice vs ou, but I love that we have been in position to win in that game more than we have with any other coach in our history. I also realize that Jimmy Johnson never beat ou while at Oklahoma State nor did Pat Jones. We haven't been great against them in our entire history and indeed that is the last element that has kept Gundy from extreme adulation in the eyes of part of our fan-base...Kind of like Eddie Sutton and KU...oops, people love Sutton despite his record vs KU...go figure?

Bowl Games? He's 8-4 with the losses mostly coming from Ole Miss whom we have not played well against. Last year he beat Virginia Tech, the year before a 10 win Colorado team, a few years prior we beat Washington in a bowl, hell one time he beat Bama. So no, I disagree that the lower tier bowls are "pointless." After all up until Gundys involvement we had only been to like two of the New years day bowls in our entire history (in 1945 and 46) so NO they aren't "pointless" for our program, not at all. We get extra practice time and we get to reward the student athletes with a good trip for all their hard work every year.

Yep, I'm an old guy and I do love your optimism, but I guess I've been around so long I do sort of start to see it as folly. I don't think we can get there until we grow our fanbase and we can't grow our fanbase with some people until we get there...so it's sort of a catch 22. I love that you want us to win so badly that you think that a head coaching change is what needs to happen in order for us to do it, the problem is that I don't see that as being a solution but actually more of an impediment to exactly what we all want.
Eddie got us to the final 4...TWICE...just sayin’
 

Rack

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Oct 13, 2004
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Eddie got us to the final 4...TWICE...just sayin’
agreed that Eddie was a great coach for us...but What was his record vs KU again? similar to Gundy vs ou?

Gundy got us a #3 in the country and should have been in the national final...same diff. in a harder (at OSU) sport to do that in with an elite blue blood in his back yard. just sayin

Both are / where great coaches for us...tremendous actually.
 
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