Notre Dame Cathedral is burning - Ile de France

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wrenhal

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Aug 11, 2011
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#41
It's a piece of history that we will no longer have...started in the 12th century and finished 100 years later, Napoleon crowed himself emperor in that church taking the crown from the Pope and placing it on his own head, and that's just one thing that happened there. It's one of the best gothic buildings from the dark ages still in existence. It is huge inside, felt solemn and cavernous. While I doubt it's authenticity, they claim to have the crown of thorns inside. So sad...I prefer this picture...

This would be similar to the statue of liberty burning to the ground...

The artwork inside and trying not to damage with too much water may have been the downfall of the response (who knows). I would think that if this happened to an iconic monument in the USA we would have more than one stream of water on the blaze far faster.

Glad I visited before this tragedy, hope everyone is ok.

View attachment 69488
My son was there just this past summer for as architecture course overseas credit. Not only had he toured the place but he had to draw it multiple times from different angles and such. He was totally in tears to hear this.

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wrenhal

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#42
If it does turn out to be irrefutable that this was an act of terror by Islamic Fundamentalists, it will be interesting to see how the apologetic left and the EU/French people respond. Could escalate very quickly with the large muslim population in Paris.
NOt to split hairs, but not sure this could even be called terrorism as no human casualties are involved. But to your larger point, I agree, it will be very interesting. Particularly with the nationalist winds blowing across Europe. It will be interesting to see if people get even more enraged by an act like this that took no human lives vs something like Charlie Hebdo.
Terrorism doesn't have to have victims. It's point is to instill "terror" in the target population.

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Balin

The Lonesome Cowboy
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#43
If it does turn out to be irrefutable that this was an act of terror by Islamic Fundamentalists, it will be interesting to see how the apologetic left and the EU/French people respond. Could escalate very quickly with the large muslim population in Paris.
Top kek.
I see you're very familiar with the France geopotilical situation. Don't talk about something you obviously have no clue about. America at his finest as your president just did with his "they should drop water from canadairs" tweet.
There was some renovation, something catch fire by accident. End of story.
 

wrenhal

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Aug 11, 2011
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#44
If it does turn out to be irrefutable that this was an act of terror by Islamic Fundamentalists, it will be interesting to see how the apologetic left and the EU/French people respond. Could escalate very quickly with the large muslim population in Paris.
Top kek.
I see you're very familiar with the France geopotilical situation. Don't talk about something you obviously have no clue about. America at his finest as your president just did with his "they should drop water from canadairs" tweet.
There was some renovation, something catch fire by accident. End of story.
With multiple churches having fires recently, it sure seems suspicious. Besides, shouldn't the workers have all been home by 6pm?

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pokes16

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#47
Top kek.
I see you're very familiar with the France geopotilical situation. Don't talk about something you obviously have no clue about. America at his finest as your president just did with his "they should drop water from canadairs" tweet.
There was some renovation, something catch fire by accident. End of story.
or "Some people did something" (For the record, I hope it is an accident)

BTW might want to update that Google translation app...
 

Rack

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Oct 13, 2004
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#51
One has to admit that it is weird that this would happen during Holy week and that a project they have attempted to fund raise for and didn't really have enough money is now going to be fully funded to the Nth degree.

Be it terrorist, an accident, the contractor, or the church itself for insurance and donation...I hope they get to the truth of the matter and I sincerely hope it wasn't sinister. An accident is the best case.

Still it's odd to have happened this week. Just seems to coincidental.
 

Rack

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#52
Does it make you just want to give up and walk away?
While this indeed is funny to us "Mericans," (I chucked)... the French really don't, and haven't done this in their long tragic history...they have been through some homegrown tyrants...foreign powers...dictatorial monarchs...those who opposed them and then became them themselves...the thought police and guillotine...and recently lots of Terrorism... YET they always have strived and achieved independence from those who ruled over them for a time...and always have rebounded. I feel for the French, they have had FAR more than their fair share of tragedy and bloodshed. I'm thankful for the support they gave to the USA during the Revolution and the statue of Liberty and...well, even Oklahoma (Napoleon sold it to us on the cheap). Most of our founders loved them and spent a lot of time in Paris. We, American's, REALLY need to brush up on our history before we make blanket statements.

Sorry Jostate, it just bothers me that we still use these shallow jokes regarding a diverse and proud people whos history and struggle is something to be respected not made fun of. Especially when they are dealing with more "stuff."
 
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Nov 6, 2010
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#53
While this indeed is funny to us "Mericans," (I chucked)... the French really don't, and haven't done this in their long tragic history...they have been through some homegrown tyrants...foreign powers...dictatorial monarchs...those who opposed them and then became them themselves...the thought police and guillotine...and recently lots of Terrorism... YET they always have strived and achieved independence from those who ruled over them for a time...and always have rebounded. I feel for the French, they have had FAR more than their fair share of tragedy and bloodshed. I'm thankful for the support they gave to the USA during the Revolution and the statue of Liberty and...well, even Oklahoma (Napoleon sold it to us on the cheap). Most of our founders loved them and spent a lot of time in Paris. We, American's, REALLY need to brush up on our history before we make blanket statements.

Sorry Jostate, it just bothers me that we still use these shallow jokes regarding a diverse and proud people whos history and struggle is something to be respected not made fun of. Especially when they are dealing with more "stuff."
And thousands of them fought to the death at Dunkirk to allow for the famous evacuation.
 
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#54
One has to admit that it is weird that this would happen during Holy week and that a project they have attempted to fund raise for and didn't really have enough money is now going to be fully funded to the Nth degree.

Be it terrorist, an accident, the contractor, or the church itself for insurance and donation...I hope they get to the truth of the matter and I sincerely hope it wasn't sinister. An accident is the best case.

Still it's odd to have happened this week. Just seems to coincidental.
Time may or may not tell us the reason for the fire but it is very difficult to start massive roof timbers afire. Since there were workmen around a small fire would likely be seen by them before they left their days job. A large hot explosive type of ignition would be needed after the workmen left would be necessary to ignite the large timbers burning almost all at once. But time will tell...
 

Jostate

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#56
While this indeed is funny to us "Mericans," (I chucked)... the French really don't, and haven't done this in their long tragic history...they have been through some homegrown tyrants...foreign powers...dictatorial monarchs...those who opposed them and then became them themselves...the thought police and guillotine...and recently lots of Terrorism... YET they always have strived and achieved independence from those who ruled over them for a time...and always have rebounded. I feel for the French, they have had FAR more than their fair share of tragedy and bloodshed. I'm thankful for the support they gave to the USA during the Revolution and the statue of Liberty and...well, even Oklahoma (Napoleon sold it to us on the cheap). Most of our founders loved them and spent a lot of time in Paris. We, American's, REALLY need to brush up on our history before we make blanket statements.

Sorry Jostate, it just bothers me that we still use these shallow jokes regarding a diverse and proud people whos history and struggle is something to be respected not made fun of. Especially when they are dealing with more "stuff."
Probably a lot of truth to this and I'm over my head on a history debate. But I first became aware of the French attitude towards the US when they refused to allow us to fly through their air space when we were going after Gaddafi. I have heard, from some pretty credible sounding people on more than one occasion, that the French promise greater support behind closed doors then disappear in some of the skirmishes with the Middle East or support of Israel.

I've seen the film of them shaving the heads of women and publicly displaying them for their opposition to the Nazis after they fell to Germany in WW 2. They pass laws to protect their language from outside influence because they see it as declining in influence on the global scene. They seem to define being French as being anti American. They dismiss us as unrefined war mongers at the same time they cut their defense budget knowing the big war monger is there to keep things safe. I think they were a better ally in the 1700's than they are now.

Beautiful country, beautiful culture and contribution to the world, but I'm not a big fan of their over inflated sense of their place in the world and anti Americanism. They're the Texas A&M of countries. Admittedly we're the UT.
 

Balin

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#57
Probably a lot of truth to this and I'm over my head on a history debate. But I first became aware of the French attitude towards the US when they refused to allow us to fly through their air space when we were going after Gaddafi. I have heard, from some pretty credible sounding people on more than one occasion, that the French promise greater support behind closed doors then disappear in some of the skirmishes with the Middle East or support of Israel.

I've seen the film of them shaving the heads of women and publicly displaying them for their opposition to the Nazis after they fell to Germany in WW 2. They pass laws to protect their language from outside influence because they see it as declining in influence on the global scene. They seem to define being French as being anti American. They dismiss us as unrefined war mongers at the same time they cut their defense budget knowing the big war monger is there to keep things safe. I think they were a better ally in the 1700's than they are now.

Beautiful country, beautiful culture and contribution to the world, but I'm not a big fan of their over inflated sense of their place in the world and anti Americanism. They're the Texas A&M of countries. Admittedly we're the UT.
Anti what? We only hate you when your president is a moron (your actual one or GW Bush to name a few). Our two countries are pretty close to each other because of the history we share together (Lafayette and your independance war, your help during the end of WWI, not so much during WW2 but the money you loan us after the war). There are two countries in the world I will always consider as our bros, you and Germany.

I'll never forget the day after Paris attacks. It was a saturday of College Football and you guys showed a lot of support and love (Army coming to the field with the french flag is the first thing that come to my mind). I talked to a lot of american people during that day and that cheered me up.

The American culture roots are very deep in France. You can't imagine how popular the NBA is around here. Yeah we fight sometimes but I think it's for the best. I know you guys hate us because of the Irak War and the Dominique de Villepin speech at the UN but we were right, no? ;) Joke aside when you're growing up in a country who witnessed the two biggest wars in the history on his own soil you may understand why we prefer peace over war.

(I'm not really sure to understand the sentence about the shaving of the women after WW2. The one who got shaved are the ones who slept with/worked with/were close to the Germans.)

AND I DO NOT LIKE THE TEXAS A&M REFERENCE. We used to be the first power in the World. The faggies never did.
 

Rack

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Oct 13, 2004
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#58
Anti what? We only hate you when your president is a moron (your actual one or GW Bush to name a few). Our two countries are pretty close to each other because of the history we share together (Lafayette and your independance war, your help during the end of WWI, not so much during WW2 but the money you loan us after the war). There are two countries in the world I will always consider as our bros, you and Germany.

I'll never forget the day after Paris attacks. It was a saturday of College Football and you guys showed a lot of support and love (Army coming to the field with the french flag is the first thing that come to my mind). I talked to a lot of american people during that day and that cheered me up.

The American culture roots are very deep in France. You can't imagine how popular the NBA is around here. Yeah we fight sometimes but I think it's for the best. I know you guys hate us because of the Irak War and the Dominique de Villepin speech at the UN but we were right, no? ;) Joke aside when you're growing up in a country who witnessed the two biggest wars in the history on his own soil you may understand why we prefer peace over war.

(I'm not really sure to understand the sentence about the shaving of the women after WW2. The one who got shaved are the ones who slept with/worked with/were close to the Germans.)

AND I DO NOT LIKE THE TEXAS A&M REFERENCE. We used to be the first power in the World. The faggies never did.
Look, I'm a conservative and I agree with most of this...to lump people all together based on their national identity is to deny the freedoms that exist in our two countries. The impression you guys get of our Presidents is largely painted by our media which has a stake in things, and the impression our conservatives get of the French isn't nearly as diverse as the French themselves happen to be. Trump isn't an idiot he just doesn't speak in platitudes and isn't political (see someone below who was similar, IMHO anyway). Certainly I don't like his bravado, but he's very anti war...just like you are (don't believe the press on this look at his actions, meetings with N. Korea that resulted in the end of test, troop draw downs in Iraq and Afghanistan, he opposed openly the Iraq War, now watch his focus on infrastructure coming soon) . We can and should disagree on many things but we SHOULD all love peace and want it.

I have much respect for what the French have been through in the name of freedom...I will also give them this, they do what they do with gusto and often go too far and way overcorrect (i.e. French Revolution)...but man they got the best food in the world and an outstanding culture of freedom. Got to respect that.

The French are not at all in lock step with each other like Texas A&M, we are much more alike than different in terms of national identity, even politically, we both struggle...Texas A&M was a silly inaccurate comparison on his part.

Oh, and Btw, De Gaulle was no pussy (not sure how to put it another way). FDR didn't like him, Churchill either, but he was not a fascist....but IMHO a good Nationalist...yes, they do exist in my opinion.
De Gaulle quotes:
"I have come to the conclusion that politics is too serious a matter to be left to the politicians.

I respect only those who resist me; but I cannot tolerate them.

Treaties are like roses and young girls -- they last while they last

Nothing great will ever be achieved without great men, and men are great only if they are determined to be so.

Deliberation is a function of the many; action is the function of one.

Diplomats are useful only in fair weather. As soon as it rains, they drown in every drop.

France has lost a battle. But France has not lost the war.

In order to become the master, the politician poses as the servant."

Btw, I've been to France, it's safe for me to say they don't "hate" Americans, I found them very hospitable and likeable...even in Paris... they just don't like a-holes...So, if you are an a-hole, please stay home, otherwise you should really visit France; it's packed with history, art, culture, science, and beauty.
 
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Binman4OSU

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Aug 31, 2007
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#59
From what I've read so far. They are treating it as an accident but haven't made a final ruling.
The fire started in the attic of the church in an area where workers had been working earlier in the day, but they had left around 5pm and at 6:20 the first call to emergency services to report the fire was recorded

30 people who were working at the site have been interviewed by authorities. This includes 1 fire official who is permanently on site. The fire alarms at the church went off 2 different times Monday evening. The fire official went to check the construction site when the first went off but reported he did not see a fire, by the second alarm it was too late.

The contractor who was doing the renovation specializes in restoring historic monuments and had moved welding equipment up into the attic but said they had not started any of the welding on the restoration yet.

Editor of the French magazine (The Art Tribune) "la Tribune de l'art" Didier Rykner told French media he has been advocating for changes to the law of how restoration companies are allowed to work on priceless buildings and artifacts in France saying the French law and instructions and guidelines for work for these companies has caused damage and complete loss of many of France's priceless artifacts and buildings due to fire.
 

Jostate

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#60
, and the impression our conservatives get of the French isn't nearly as diverse as the French themselves happen to be. .
I will concede much of the impression Americans have about the French is actually about Parisians. Which is about as fair as judging Americans by thinking we're all like New Yorkers.