Not pretty when socialism runs out of money

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Midnight Toker

Territorial Marshal
May 28, 2010
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#21
Like what for example? Which industry will be nationalized under this administration?
First, let’s not distort Cimarron’s comment. You asked “Which industry will be nationalized...”, inferring he said it would be completed in the Biden/Harris admin. He said “...their plans to take more control of industry...”; emphasis added on the words MORE CONTROL. Second, to answer the essence of your question, more control over healthcare and energy for starters.
That is an ambiguous answer at best. What you describe is nothing close to socialism.
 

Cimarron

It's not dying I'm talking about, it's living.
Jun 28, 2007
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#23
In a socialist state there is no private ownership of industry or means of production. In order for us to go socialist, we have to start nationalizing businesses. So I was just curious which ones are on the list.
You should read the definition of socialism again.
 
Jun 16, 2020
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#26
How does that fit the definition of socialism?
The US government socialized the losses of corporations without forcing them to assume risk. Government took control of business and the economy. Let the financially irresponsible businesses close. Screw them if they didn’t have enough capital.
 

kaboy42

Territorial Marshal
May 2, 2007
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#28
Everyone knows socialism is not a very viable system of governance. Nobody is trying to bring that to the US.
Ya know, at first, when you only posted in the Bedlam & Flame section I wasn’t real high on you. Nothing personal.

But now that you’re over here in the Politics section dropping mad, sarcastic jokes...

Dude, you.are.FUNNY! :lol:
 

steross

he/him
A/V Subscriber
Mar 31, 2004
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#29
When you are young and not a Democrat you have no heart...but when you are older and have knocked around
by life and yet remain a Democrat you have no brain.
When you claim Christianity then support a man that goes against nearly everything Jesus said or did, you look pretty ridiculous insulting others because they care about people other than themselves.
 
Feb 6, 2007
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#31
Social programs do not equate to a socialist state. You should do more research on socialism if that's all you see. If it were up to you, the New Deal would have been dead in the water. Even our military is the biggest, baddest social program of them all. They give you a job, training, free medical, free housing, free food, free clothes and veterans preference when you get out.

I never talked about free college tuition for all, so let's stay on topic if possible. But to that point, free college tuition is no more a form of socialism than medicare. But again, socialism is so, so , SOSOSO much more than just free shit. My venezuelan girlfriend was just telling me the other day about some of her friends who are employees of the government. The government is the largest employer in that country. If you were caught voting for anyone other than maduro for president, you'd get fired and be unemployable for government service for life. Now that's socialism in reality for you. Of course it gets much worse.



Yours is a common misinterpretation of Sanders' comment. He said the american dream is more apt to be realized in those socialist nations. He didnt say he wants us to be like them. he was pointing out that as an example, in some ways, even the shitholes down there are are doing more for their people than we are and dont suffer the same income inequality that we do. That is not a quote of a guy clamoring to bring all the outcomes of venezuela to the US.

For example, I dont want to be Cuba, but did you know that the life expectancy in Cuba is higher than it is for the US? So i ask why? and it's because of their medical care. We can aim to do better by looking at examples set even by tyrannical governments. We dont have to be Cuba in order to have better medical outcomes than they do.
Degrees of separation; understand the concept.
 
Feb 6, 2007
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#32
Social programs do not equate to a socialist state. You should do more research on socialism if that's all you see. If it were up to you, the New Deal would have been dead in the water. Even our military is the biggest, baddest social program of them all. They give you a job, training, free medical, free housing, free food, free clothes and veterans preference when you get out.

I never talked about free college tuition for all, so let's stay on topic if possible. But to that point, free college tuition is no more a form of socialism than medicare. But again, socialism is so, so , SOSOSO much more than just free shit. My venezuelan girlfriend was just telling me the other day about some of her friends who are employees of the government. The government is the largest employer in that country. If you were caught voting for anyone other than maduro for president, you'd get fired and be unemployable for government service for life. Now that's socialism in reality for you. Of course it gets much worse.



Yours is a common misinterpretation of Sanders' comment. He said the american dream is more apt to be realized in those socialist nations. He didnt say he wants us to be like them. he was pointing out that as an example, in some ways, even the shitholes down there are are doing more for their people than we are and dont suffer the same income inequality that we do. That is not a quote of a guy clamoring to bring all the outcomes of venezuela to the US.

For example, I dont want to be Cuba, but did you know that the life expectancy in Cuba is higher than it is for the US? So i ask why? and it's because of their medical care. We can aim to do better by looking at examples set even by tyrannical governments. We dont have to be Cuba in order to have better medical outcomes than they do.
Your interpretation is exactly the same as every other sheep who has been led to slaughter.
 

Cimarron

It's not dying I'm talking about, it's living.
Jun 28, 2007
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#33
Let us not confuse social programs with socialism.

Socialism: a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

Social Program: means a program implemented with board approval to provide assistance to a group of disadvantaged customers, to provide protection to consumers, or to accomplish a particular societal goal, and includes, but is not limited to, the winter moratorium program, utility practices concerning "bad debt" customers, low income assistance, deferred payment plans, weatherization programs, and late payment and deposit policies, but does not include any demand side management program or any environmental requirements or controls;

I will refer you back to an earlier post. Social Programs can be used to build dependency on the government to the point that production, distribution, and exchange would be regulated by the central government giving us socialism.
But this “market economy” is a facade, Mises explained. Through mounting interventions (mandates, “investments,” etc) in the economy, the government’s sway over business grows and grows, to the point where it is the state that ultimately steers production, and thus becomes the de facto owner of the means of production.

Mises called this “the Hindenburg or German pattern” of realizing socialism, because that is how Paul von Hindenburg, the leader of the German Imperial Army, imposed "wartime socialism“ on Germany during World War I, and also how socialism later re-emerged under the Nazis.
It's been the Trump Administration, not the Obama Administration and nor will it be the Biden Administration (he's already promised that) that has scaled-back federal investment and involvement in industry and government programs.

People should be more aware of what they actually voted for.
 

Midnight Toker

Territorial Marshal
May 28, 2010
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#36
Your interpretation is exactly the same as every other sheep who has been led to slaughter.
I came here to talk about these issues cordially, so, lets talk. This response is rather worthless and lacks any thought or insight.

You should read the definition of socialism again.
I agree, you really should look up the definition.

Both healthcare and energy are in very real danger of being nationalized. Don't know that they'll get all the way there, but you can bet any legislation they shove through will lay the groundwork for it.
And what has already happened that makes this possible? I mean an actual thing that has happened not a gut feeling that you have based of something you saw on oan.
 

Midnight Toker

Territorial Marshal
May 28, 2010
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#37
Ya know, at first, when you only posted in the Bedlam & Flame section I wasn’t real high on you. Nothing personal.

But now that you’re over here in the Politics section dropping mad, sarcastic jokes...

Dude, you.are.FUNNY! :lol:
Cool, but what does that have to do with my post?
 

Cimarron

It's not dying I'm talking about, it's living.
Jun 28, 2007
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#39
In a socialist state there is no private ownership of industry or means of production. In order for us to go socialist, we have to start nationalizing businesses. So I was just curious which ones are on the list.
Socialism: a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

Like I said, you should review the definition of socialism.
 

CocoCincinnati

Federal Marshal
Feb 7, 2007
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#40
And what has already happened that makes this possible? I mean an actual thing that has happened not a gut feeling that you have based of something you saw on oan.
The ACA for starters. And we've seen previews of what a global warming bill is going to look like. Anybody who can't see the lefts sights focused clearly on those two industries is too hopelessly blinded by bias to have a rational discussion with.

And I wouldn't even know what oan was if not for the Chuba/Gundy kerfuffle. Maybe you need to stop blindly accepting what you see on CNN.