Not pretty when socialism runs out of money

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Cimarron

It's not dying I'm talking about, it's living.
Jun 28, 2007
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#1
Congresswoman-elect Victoria Spartz, R-Ind., appeared on "Fox & Friends" to share her personal experiences living under socialism.

“I grew up in a socialistic country, the Socialist Republic of Ukraine. I saw what happens when it runs out of money and it is not pretty,” Spartz said.

“And now, I came to America 20 years ago with a suitcase after meeting my husband on a train in Europe. He’s a raised and born Hoosier. And now we’re building socialism. I’m kind of going full circles. I can tell you what is going to be next. It’s very sad for me to see that.”

Spartz went on to say, “This system creates a lot of destruction and misery so we have to be smarter than that. You know, we're not going to change. There are only two systems: you have freedom and free enterprise and you have a system where the government decides and political elites on top [decide] how we’re going to lead, what we’re going to do.”

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/victoria-spartz-soviet-union-socialism-runs-out-money
 

Cimarron

It's not dying I'm talking about, it's living.
Jun 28, 2007
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#2
Ten Cannots by the Rev. William J.H. Boetcker

You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.

You cannot help small men by tearing down big men.

You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.

You cannot lift the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer.

You cannot help the poor man by destroying the rich.

You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than your income.

You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred.

You cannot establish security on borrowed money.

You cannot build character and courage by taking away men's initiative and independence.

You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.
 

Cimarron

It's not dying I'm talking about, it's living.
Jun 28, 2007
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#4
I no longer have the picture. I did have one though of a roadside farmers market in Russia.

And worse than that, I was told it was better than they could get at the grocery store.

No thanks, I'll pass!
 
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Feb 7, 2007
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#5
I no longer have the picture. I did have one though of a roadside farmers market in Russia.

And worse than that, I was told it was better than they could get at the grocery store.

No thanks, I'll pass!
Yeah, in America we sell our product to the government if we can't find buyers. We get our ag loans from the government! Not some socialist system like Russia!

http://www.westwingbestwing.com/pol...-know-how-much-your-government-spends-on-corn

Do you have any idea how much the government spends on corn? Between 1996 and 2016, the government spent over $21 billion on direct payments to corn farmers. And that was only on direct payments. In total, over ten years, the federal government used $106 billion of our taxes for corn payments. That's around $10 billion a year. On corn.

And that's only one of the crops the United States subsidizes. In ten years, the government spent $35 billion on soybeans, $43 billion on wheat, and $37 million on cotton. Before you ask, no there are not subsidies for vegetable production. That's why half of the 300 million acres this country uses for agriculture are used for corn and wheat, and only 14 million are used for vegetables.
 
Feb 6, 2007
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#10
Who, specifically? And quotes would be helpful. This is strictly for who you claim wants to make the US a socialist state. But good luck finding anyone who wants to make the US another venezuela.
Really? Socialized health care is one of the primary pillars of the Democratic Party and is already here in pieces, socialized farm policy has been around for decades, in pieces, and you don't believe that "free college tuition for everyone" is not a form of socialism?
 

Midnight Toker

Territorial Marshal
May 28, 2010
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#11
Really? Socialized health care is one of the primary pillars of the Democratic Party and is already here in pieces, socialized farm policy has been around for decades, in pieces, and you don't believe that "free college tuition for everyone" is not a form of socialism?
Social programs do not equate to a socialist state. You should do more research on socialism if that's all you see. If it were up to you, the New Deal would have been dead in the water. Even our military is the biggest, baddest social program of them all. They give you a job, training, free medical, free housing, free food, free clothes and veterans preference when you get out.

I never talked about free college tuition for all, so let's stay on topic if possible. But to that point, free college tuition is no more a form of socialism than medicare. But again, socialism is so, so , SOSOSO much more than just free shit. My venezuelan girlfriend was just telling me the other day about some of her friends who are employees of the government. The government is the largest employer in that country. If you were caught voting for anyone other than maduro for president, you'd get fired and be unemployable for government service for life. Now that's socialism in reality for you. Of course it gets much worse.

a 2 second google search brings the following...

Yours is a common misinterpretation of Sanders' comment. He said the american dream is more apt to be realized in those socialist nations. He didnt say he wants us to be like them. he was pointing out that as an example, in some ways, even the shitholes down there are are doing more for their people than we are and dont suffer the same income inequality that we do. That is not a quote of a guy clamoring to bring all the outcomes of venezuela to the US.

For example, I dont want to be Cuba, but did you know that the life expectancy in Cuba is higher than it is for the US? So i ask why? and it's because of their medical care. We can aim to do better by looking at examples set even by tyrannical governments. We dont have to be Cuba in order to have better medical outcomes than they do.
 
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Cimarron

It's not dying I'm talking about, it's living.
Jun 28, 2007
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#12
Isn't it really more about what products are consumed? If we produced more vegetables who is going to eat them?

And again farm subsidies are one of the cornerstones of the Democrat party, not the Republican party.

It's been Republicans who have for decades attempted to reform farm subsidies, it's the Democrats who push it further because it supports their belief in central planning. In fact, Biden (if you voted for him) want's to expand farm subsidies.

So, if you want to reform farm subsidies look no further than your vote, not mine.



A few interesting statistics and thoughts.

In 1930 there was 103,915,000 acres of corn planted that produced 1,757,297 bu of corn.
In 2020 there was 90,978,000 acres of corn planted that produced 14,506,795,000 bu of corn.

About 15% of the corn produced is for ethanol production. Isn't that also more of a Democrat supported program than a Republican program?

Biden supported increases in corn production to produce more ethanol, which he claimed has gone down under Trump.

Joe Biden campaigned to transistion away from the oil industry. While Trump campaigned on being energy neutral because of the oil industry.

Starting to sound like you voted for the wrong guy?
 
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Cimarron

It's not dying I'm talking about, it's living.
Jun 28, 2007
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#14
Everyone knows socialism is not a very viable system of governance. Nobody is trying to bring that to the US.
You might want to look a little more into Biden/Harris and their plans to take more control of industry out of the hands of Americans and into the hands of the federal government.
 

Midnight Toker

Territorial Marshal
May 28, 2010
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#15
Everyone knows socialism is not a very viable system of governance. Nobody is trying to bring that to the US.
You might want to look a little more into Biden/Harris and their plans to take more control of industry out of the hands of Americans and into the hands of the federal government.
Like what for example? Which industry will be nationalized under this administration?
 
Jul 5, 2020
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#16
Like what for example? Which industry will be nationalized under this administration?
First, let’s not distort Cimarron’s comment. You asked “Which industry will be nationalized...”, inferring he said it would be completed in the Biden/Harris admin. He said “...their plans to take more control of industry...”; emphasis added on the words MORE CONTROL. Second, to answer the essence of your question, more control over healthcare and energy for starters.
 
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Cimarron

It's not dying I'm talking about, it's living.
Jun 28, 2007
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#18
“The second pattern,” Mises continued, “nominally and seemingly preserves private ownership of the means of production and keeps the appearance of ordinary markets, prices, wages, and interest rates.”

But this “market economy” is a facade, Mises explained. Through mounting interventions (mandates, “investments,” etc) in the economy, the government’s sway over business grows and grows, to the point where it is the state that ultimately steers production, and thus becomes the de facto owner of the means of production.

Mises called this “the Hindenburg or German pattern” of realizing socialism, because that is how Paul von Hindenburg, the leader of the German Imperial Army, imposed "wartime socialism“ on Germany during World War I, and also how socialism later re-emerged under the Nazis.

https://mises.org/library/human-action-0/html/pp/865

Ludwig Heinrich Edler von Mises was an Austrian School economist, historian, logician and sociologist. Mises wrote and lectured extensively on the societal contributions of classical liberalism. He is best known for his work on praxeology, a study of human choice and action.

By comparison the Trump Administration has been one of scaled-back federal investment and involvement in industry and government programs.
 

Midnight Toker

Territorial Marshal
May 28, 2010
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#20
Like what for example? Which industry will be nationalized under this administration?
Where did I say nationalized?
In a socialist state there is no private ownership of industry or means of production. In order for us to go socialist, we have to start nationalizing businesses. So I was just curious which ones are on the list.