Nogales AZ upset with Razor wire installed on US side of border fence by Troops Trump sent to border

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Binman4OSU

Legendary Cowboy
Aug 31, 2007
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#1
When the Troops were first sent to the border town they installed razor wire across the top of the wall. Now they have returned and have installed 6 strands from the top of the wall to the bottom on the US side of the wall.

The city hall passed a unanimous resolution yesterday to formally condemn the wire and demand it be taken down immediately for safety concerns

The wire installed by the US military violates the town code which specifically states that razor wire can only be installed in industrial parks and storage areas in the town and must be at least 6ft off the ground. The wire was installed all the way to the ground by the military and in some cases sits just 10ft away from residents property lines

The state rep for the town Garino said that the US military didn't reach out to his office the town leadership, the town police or fire and just put up the wire without any involvement of local leadership. He said he had a meeting with the US Customs and Border Protection about the wall and said they told them the wire was put up because they had a lot of incidents of people jumping the fence. Garino said this was not the same information the police chief, assistant chief, deputy city manager had told him and said he didn't know where Customs were getting their statistics because it didn't match what local officials were saying

Garino said

“Placing coiled concertina wire strands on the ground is typically only found in a war, battlefield or prison setting, and not in an urban setting such as downtown Nogales, Arizona,” “Placing coiled concertina wire that is designed to inflict serious bodily injury or death in the immediate proximity of our residents, children, pets, law enforcement and first responders is not only irresponsible but inhuman.”



 

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Aug 16, 2012
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#4
Whining, complaining spin.

First, the wire was not installed within the city limits of Nogales. City limits end on the north side of International Street with the wire parallel to the south side of the street. This roughly 60 foot buffer runs the length of the border through town. So it does not matter what the city ordinances say, the city has no jurisdiction.

The wire only runs along a short, maybe 10 foot section along International Street before heading across unimproved terrain that is almost non-accessible. This section starts at the southeast corner of downtown, away from all retail entrances, nowhere near parking areas, pedestrian sidewalks and the border crossing itself. The nearest building on Nelson Street is a nondescript warehouse, not a retail venue. It is not visible from pedestrians patronizing the retail stores.

In order to get to the wall at the short section that is contiguous with International Street and become injured, one would have to climb over a steel guardrail with "Keep Out" signs posted in English and Spanish. Along the non-improved stretch, one would have to cross steep, uphill wasteland, up a gunite barrier wall, cross the same steel guardrail with posted signs. It is not like this is some sort of safety issue for kids or anyone else that the article is trying to make it sound like.
 
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Jul 20, 2018
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Oklahoma City
#5
So the US government can go into a US town...violate their city laws and do so without the town having a say in any of it

That's a very very slippery slope
That's a pretty imaginary slope you got there.........

This from the Huffington Post:

If a state law gives people more rights than a federal law, the state law is legally supposed to prevail. This means state law will always supersede federal law when the person in question stands to gain more from the state law, right?

Wrong. The law that applies to situations where state and federal laws disagree is called the supremacy clause, which is part of article VI of the Constitution. The supremacy clause contains what’s known as the doctrine of pre-emption, which says that the federal government wins in the case of conflicting legislation. Basically, if a federal and state law contradict, then when you’re in the state you can follow the state law, but the feds can decide to stop you. When there is a conflict between a state law and federal law, it is the federal law that prevails.

If state law doesn't supersede federal law, good luck with that city law claim.
 

Binman4OSU

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#6
Whining, complaining spin.

First, the wire was not installed within the city limits of Nogales. City limits end on the north side of International Street with the roughly 60 foot buffer running the length of the border through town. So it does not matter what the city ordinances say, the city has no jurisdiction.

The wire only runs along a short, maybe 10 foot section along International Street before heading across unimproved terrain that is almost non-accessible. This section starts at the southeast corner of downtown, away from all retail entrances, nowhere near parking areas, pedestrian sidewalks and the border crossing itself. The nearest building on Nelson Street is a nondescript warehouse, not a retail venue. It is not visible from pedestrians patronizing the retail stores.

In order to get to the wall at the short section that is contiguous with International Street and become injured, one would have to climb over a steel guardrail with "Keep Out" signs posted in English and Spanish. Along the non-improved stretch, one would have to cross steep, uphill wasteland, up a gunite barrier wall, cross the same steel guardrail with posted signs. It is not like this is some sort of safety issue for kids or anyone else that the article is trying to make it sound like.
Per the city council there was some of the wire installed within their city limits. The city claims there is not a 60ft buffer running between the border and the town and that some of their city property sits less than 10 ft from the border.

I don't know who is right or wrong but there seems to be some sort of dispute there
 
Jul 25, 2018
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Boulder, CO
#8
Whining, complaining spin.

First, the wire was not installed within the city limits of Nogales. City limits end on the north side of International Street with the roughly 60 foot buffer running the length of the border through town. So it does not matter what the city ordinances say, the city has no jurisdiction.

The wire only runs along a short, maybe 10 foot section along International Street before heading across unimproved terrain that is almost non-accessible. This section starts at the southeast corner of downtown, away from all retail entrances, nowhere near parking areas, pedestrian sidewalks and the border crossing itself. The nearest building on Nelson Street is a nondescript warehouse, not a retail venue. It is not visible from pedestrians patronizing the retail stores.

In order to get to the wall at the short section that is contiguous with International Street and become injured, one would have to climb over a steel guardrail with "Keep Out" signs posted in English and Spanish. Along the non-improved stretch, one would have to cross steep, uphill wasteland, up a gunite barrier wall, cross the same steel guardrail with posted signs. It is not like this is some sort of safety issue for kids or anyone else that the article is trying to make it sound like.
So is the picture posted in Nogales?
 

John C

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Oct 13, 2011
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#9
I don't know who actually owns the land, but even if Nogo (as we called it when I lived in that part of the world) does own it, the feds can declare eminent domain and pay them pennies on the dollar for it. That's been going on for centuries in this country.
 
Jul 20, 2018
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#11
They're probably just bitchin' because that was the place where there "employees" went to/from work everyday. You gotta love that illegal labor force. No taxes, no worker's comp, no liability insurance, no safety standards, etc, etc, etc. You can get rich off of that.
 

Binman4OSU

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#12
They're probably just bitchin' because that was the place where there "employees" went to/from work everyday. You gotta love that illegal labor force. No taxes, no worker's comp, no liability insurance, no safety standards, etc, etc, etc. You can get rich off of that.
Most likely they are mad because the lion share of their economy comes from people crossing in from Mexico legally to shop in the US there. Harder for people to get in due to increased checks, less people want to come legally....hurts their economy ...I'm sure that is their biggest motivating factor for complaining about it
 
Jul 20, 2018
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#13
Most likely they are mad because the lion share of their economy comes from people crossing in from Mexico legally to shop in the US there. Harder for people to get in due to increased checks, less people want to come legally....hurts their economy ...I'm sure that is their biggest motivating factor for complaining about it
That's simply not possible. You can't come into our country "legally" by jumping the fence.
 
Aug 16, 2012
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#14
No, it is NOT in Nogales. The city limit of Nogales ends on the north side of International Street and a roughly 60' buffer between the border and the city limits. But do not take my word for it. Here is the city map from the Nogales website. I added the red annotation and the yellow dashed line indicating the wall extent and the green border indicating the retail area. The map clearly shows the border is outside the extent of the city.

Doc1.jpg
 
Jul 20, 2018
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Oklahoma City
#15
I don't know who actually owns the land, but even if Nogo (as we called it when I lived in that part of the world) does own it, the feds can declare eminent domain and pay them pennies on the dollar for it. That's been going on for centuries in this country.
The government cannot pay you "pennies on the dollar" for land it acquires under Eminent Domain. Eminent Domain is invoked only if applicable (the requirement is for public necessity or public purpose) and then only if a price can't be agreed upon between the landowner and the government. The government or corporation (like OG&E) acting under Eminent Domain files suit in court, then court appointed appraisers determine it's fair market value.

Having said all that.......... You're probably better off if it's a corporation like OG&E, rather than the Federal Government condemning your land as they're more likely to offer a better deal in order to speed up the process. We had farm land condemned for an electrical transmission line a couple of years ago. We refused the price OG&E offered us, so they filed a condemnation proceeding. Two weeks before the trial date, OG&E then offered 4 times their initial offer (4 times the going rate for the land).
 

Binman4OSU

Legendary Cowboy
Aug 31, 2007
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#16
No, it is NOT in Nogales. The city limit of Nogales ends on the north side of International Street and a roughly 60' buffer between the border and the city limits. But do not take my word for it. Here is the city map from the Nogales website. I added the red annotation and the yellow dashed line indicating the wall extent and the green border indicating the retail area. The map clearly shows the border is outside the extent of the city.

View attachment 68084
I have added a yellow dot to where the photo is captioned to have been taken. At the corner of International and Nelson

1549564525365.png
 
Feb 11, 2007
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Oklahoma City
#17
When the Troops were first sent to the border town they installed razor wire across the top of the wall. Now they have returned and have installed 6 strands from the top of the wall to the bottom on the US side of the wall.

The city hall passed a unanimous resolution yesterday to formally condemn the wire and demand it be taken down immediately for safety concerns

The wire installed by the US military violates the town code which specifically states that razor wire can only be installed in industrial parks and storage areas in the town and must be at least 6ft off the ground. The wire was installed all the way to the ground by the military and in some cases sits just 10ft away from residents property lines

The state rep for the town Garino said that the US military didn't reach out to his office the town leadership, the town police or fire and just put up the wire without any involvement of local leadership. He said he had a meeting with the US Customs and Border Protection about the wall and said they told them the wire was put up because they had a lot of incidents of people jumping the fence. Garino said this was not the same information the police chief, assistant chief, deputy city manager had told him and said he didn't know where Customs were getting their statistics because it didn't match what local officials were saying

Garino said

“Placing coiled concertina wire strands on the ground is typically only found in a war, battlefield or prison setting, and not in an urban setting such as downtown Nogales, Arizona,” “Placing coiled concertina wire that is designed to inflict serious bodily injury or death in the immediate proximity of our residents, children, pets, law enforcement and first responders is not only irresponsible but inhuman.”
Maintenance of the US border is the duty of the United States not by any town or state.
 
Aug 16, 2012
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#18
I have added a yellow dot to where the photo is captioned to have been taken. At the corner of International and Nelson

View attachment 68085
The wall shown on the OP picture is NOT at that location. The wall/wire is where I have shown the yellow dashed line. Your yellow dot is a concrete block wall that part of the retail building. The north side of International Street is line with stark building walls. There is no barrier walls, no fence, no wire.
 
Aug 16, 2012
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#19
I am revising my original diagram to indicate the wall extends from the structure just south of the southwest corner of the retail building at International and Morley as shown in dashed red below. Have shown the approximate camera vantage point and orientation of the photo which can be verified by the crappy building with the Spanish tile mansard roof in the back right of the photo. Again, per the Nogales city website, the wall is NOT within city limits which end on the north side of International Street. Your (Binman's) dot you added is not where the razor wire wall is located.
Doc2.jpg