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New York legislature votes to legalize abortion up to birth, let non-doctors commit abortions

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StillwaterTownie

StillwaterTownie

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#61
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#61
NTXPoke said:
I was thinking that this is the perfect lead in to New York's Universal Healthcare. 1) Babies are expensive, so encourage people to kill them (especially sick babies). 2) Disabled people are expensive, so encourage people to kill them. It will a have a nice name like euthanasia, talk about quality of life, etc. 3) Old people are expensive, so encourage people to kill them--assisted "suicide". If all this passes, I wonder how long it will be in NY that the government puts in place an ROI calculation before medical care is granted. If we spend $30k on a hip replacement on a 40 year old, we will recoup that expense in taxes. For a 65 year, not so much--denied.
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It is a FACT that Republicans are quite vehemently opposed to viewing medical care as a human right. So what do you propose Republicans do about people needing $50,000 in life saving surgery, but can't begin to pay for it? Put them up in a hospice center with hope it gets enough donations to provide people there comfort until they die?
 
Rack

Rack

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Oct 13, 2004
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#63
okst1 said:
I'm not sure I understand. There are tons of couples out there wanting to adopt children.

People are simply using abortion in lieu of birth control.
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While this is the case many times...the point I am making is that love is needed for the mothers and women as they are nearly as much victims of this as are the babies. AND that love and support should extend to the child well beyond it's birth as we move toward, hopefully, banning at least convenience/birth control abortions.
 
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steross

steross

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#68
docjoctoo said:
"Steross....if a doctor kills a newborn baby immediately after birth would you call that murder or not?
If you are unable to call this murder, what do you think the criminal code is in this case?
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We both know what my answer is and what the criminal code is in that case. It is murder.

How about this, if a baby was about to be born at 11:58 PM on December 31st, 2018 but doesn't quite come out and arrives at 00:05 AM on Jan 1st, 2019 do you call this child a federal income tax deduction for 2018?
 
wrenhal

wrenhal

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#70
Aug 11, 2011
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#70
Rack said:
okst1 said:
I'm not sure I understand. There are tons of couples out there wanting to adopt children.

People are simply using abortion in lieu of birth control.
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While this is the case many times...the point I am making is that love is needed for the mothers and women as they are nearly as much victims of this as are the babies.
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Yes and that's why organizations like Stillwater life services exist. They country women while had annoying or ones thinking about it and they also provide prenatal services, access to ultrasounds, clothing and stuff for the moms and babies after birth. Counseling on how to be a parent. I do believe they counsel on adoption and provide referrals to agencie. sAll kinds of things. And I and many other Christians in this community donate time, sweat, and money to them.

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wrenhal

wrenhal

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#71
steross said:
docjoctoo said:
"Steross....if a doctor kills a newborn baby immediately after birth would you call that murder or not?
If you are unable to call this murder, what do you think the criminal code is in this case?
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We both know what my answer is and what the criminal code is in that case. It is murder.

How about this, if a baby was about to be born at 11:58 PM on December 31st, 2018 but doesn't quite come out and arrives at 00:05 AM on Jan 1st, 2019 do you call this child a federal income tax deduction for 2018?
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Murder is the taking of a human life you can finagle around all you want but the fact that you don't believe a baby in the womb is a life and only changes the moment comes out of the birth canal is very disingenuous and uncaring. That baby is a human life and if that matter of inches to you makes that big a difference on whether it's a life that's just... I don't understand how someone can be that crass.

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steross

steross

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wrenhal said:
Murder is the taking of a human life you can finagle around all you want but the fact that you don't believe a baby in the womb is a life and only changes the moment comes out of the birth canal is very disingenuous and uncaring. That baby is a human life and if that matter of inches to you makes that big a difference on whether it's a life that's just... I don't understand how someone can be that crass.

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Instead of just insulting me unnecessarily why don't you answer my question? Is that "human life" a tax deduction in 2018? It is as dependent as a human life can possibly be. It is a child. Why would that not be a deduction using the rationale that you guys are putting forth?

And, BTW, if what you are saying is true everyone on here that says that abortion should be allowed for rape, incest, life of the mother, fetal anomalies etc is "crass and uncaring" then as they are advocating murder.

Furthermore, instead of being an emotional wreck about the subject and accusing me of things I did not even say, why don't you read what I actually wrote. The fact that I do not feel that abortion should be called murder does not mean that I think aborting a healthy baby at 38 weeks is A-OK like your bald faced lie about me is claiming as a "fact."

Finally, if your childish definition of murder were true, every time a state commits capital punishment, every traffic accident that kills someone, or every time a doctor botches a surgery would be murder. C'mon, I'm pretty sure you are smarter than that.
 
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MadMau

MadMau

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#74
steross said:
Instead of just insulting me unnecessarily why don't you answer my question? Is that "human life" a tax deduction in 2018? It is as dependent as a human life can possibly be. It is a child. Why would that not be a deduction using the rationale that you guys are putting forth?

And, BTW, if what you are saying is true everyone on here that says that abortion should be allowed for rape, incest, life of the mother, fetal anomalies etc is "crass and uncaring" then as they are advocating murder.

Furthermore, instead of being an emotional wreck about the subject and accusing me of things I did not even say, why don't you read what I actually wrote. The fact that I do not feel that abortion should be called murder does not mean that I think aborting a healthy baby at 38 weeks is A-OK like your bald faced lie about me is claiming as a "fact."

Finally, if your childish definition of murder were true, every time a state commits capital punishment, every traffic accident that kills someone, or every time a doctor botches a surgery would be murder. C'mon, I'm pretty sure you are smarter than that.
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I think most who feel like I do about this issue realize that "murder" as most commonly used is a legal term with degrees and various punishments. It's not in the legal sense that I'm defining murder here personally. In my moral compass, my inner guidance system, in my soul if you like......... killing a fetus that WOULD be a normal child and able to live outside it's mother's womb is akin to murder on the strongest order. I will certainly abide by the current or future laws concerning abortion in my state or any other, but I will continue to speak out against those particular practices I find most abhorrent.
 
docjoctoo

docjoctoo

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#75
steross said:
We both know what my answer is and what the criminal code is in that case. It is murder.

How about this, if a baby was about to be born at 11:58 PM on December 31st, 2018 but doesn't quite come out and arrives at 00:05 AM on Jan 1st, 2019 do you call this child a federal income tax deduction for 2018?
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Likewise let me ask you this: How many angels can stand on the head of a pin? This was said to be an important theological question that was said to bother theologians for centuries. You may know the answer, I don't.
 
MadMau

MadMau

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#77
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