New guys will save us next year?

  • You are viewing Orangepower as a Guest. To start new threads, reply to posts, or participate in polls or contests - you must register. Registration is free and easy. Click Here to register.
Nov 6, 2010
601
255
613
#61
I agree with most everything that is here except that we have the talent, I'm not knocking our guys at all but Waters isn't a point guard and TBH Ice isn't either but he is better than Waters. Waters is a really good player just not a PG, Cam isn't a center, Demuth is still developing, Yor keeps improving. It's not that the guys aren't talented its that they're playing other roles that doesn't really fit them the best.
Agree with everything with the slight exception to your characterization of ICE. Guys that are 6-4, true freshmen that can actually handle the point at this level don't grow on trees. He might not be the finished product yet, but he is definitely a point guard. It's so much easier for a 5-11 guy to play that position and look good doing it. Give him another year, and an extra 10 minutes of rest per game, and I think you'll be pretty pleased at the point guard he develops into.
 
Aug 7, 2006
1,233
959
1,743
#62
Agree with everything with the slight exception to your characterization of ICE. Guys that are 6-4, true freshmen that can actually handle the point at this level don't grow on trees. He might not be the finished product yet, but he is definitely a point guard. It's so much easier for a 5-11 guy to play that position and look good doing it. Give him another year, and an extra 10 minutes of rest per game, and I think you'll be pretty pleased at the point guard he develops into.
He's gonna be a force on defense for the next several years. He needs to work on some things on the offensive end, but he has the tools to become a very good player here.
 
Aug 22, 2006
1,186
400
1,713
SE Oklahoma
#63
Agree with everything with the slight exception to your characterization of ICE. Guys that are 6-4, true freshmen that can actually handle the point at this level don't grow on trees. He might not be the finished product yet, but he is definitely a point guard. It's so much easier for a 5-11 guy to play that position and look good doing it. Give him another year, and an extra 10 minutes of rest per game, and I think you'll be pretty pleased at the point guard he develops into.
He is the best option we have right now and I think he's a great player for us and will only get better. I love his game and the way he plays but for me he is a combo 1/2 guy not a pure point. He will be on the floor the rest of his time here but I tend to think he fits Dizagwa's spot with a pure point in AAIII. It's a really good problem to have 2 guys on the floor that handle the ball well.
 
Nov 6, 2010
601
255
613
#64
He is the best option we have right now and I think he's a great player for us and will only get better. I love his game and the way he plays but for me he is a combo 1/2 guy not a pure point. He will be on the floor the rest of his time here but I tend to think he fits Dizagwa's spot with a pure point in AAIII. It's a really good problem to have 2 guys on the floor that handle the ball well.
Tough to put a guy that can't shoot at the 2, which is why I think ICE is definitely a PG. Clearly they'll be able to move him around some if he develops even an average jump shot, particularly if the new guy can shoot it well.
 
Jun 11, 2016
458
288
113
Oklahoma City
#65
Looks like Yor and Ice had pretty good games last night. About that trajectory. These 2 are going to be reliable next year and when they are juniors they will be all conference.
 
Aug 22, 2006
1,186
400
1,713
SE Oklahoma
#66
Tough to put a guy that can't shoot at the 2, which is why I think ICE is definitely a PG. Clearly they'll be able to move him around some if he develops even an average jump shot, particularly if the new guy can shoot it well.
You're right, I think if he can play like he did against Baylor night in and night out we will win a whole lot of games. Plus you don't find a lot of 6'4" point guards with long arms he will be even better for the team defensively. The whole team needs to work on free throws, fatigue could be part of it but we leave points off the boards a lot.
 
Aug 7, 2010
490
423
613
#67
We have more basketball tradition than any school in the conference outside of KU...
Maybe this is another thread... I love OSU, was there a couple of weeks ago giving a speech. But, this idea that OSU has been a basketball powerhouse isn't based in reality. We've won some amazing games over the year, but the hardware and post season accolades don't support this.

If OSU can be a consistent NCAA tournament team with either a regular season or Big 12 tourney title every 7 years, it would be an improvement. Heck, if we can finish top 3 every year with an 8 seed in the NCAA tourney, it would be a great.

Looking at the history below, and including Big 8/12 results, my ranking would be:

1) KU
2) OU
3) KSU
4) OSU
5) Neb
6) UT
7) Mizzou
8) ISU
9) WVU
10) CU
11) Bay (should lose points for being scum)
12) TT
13) TCU

NCAA Tournament Bids
Kansas - 47
Texas - 34
Oklahoma - 31
Kansas State - 30
West Virginia - 29
Oklahoma State - 28
Iowa State - 19
Texas Tech - 15
Baylor - 11
TCU - 8

NCAA Final Four Appearances (bold years indicate that it happened during the lifetime of an 18 year old recruit)
Kansas - 15 ('40, '52, '53, '57, '71, '74, '86, '88, '91, '93, '02, '03, '08, '12, '18)
Oklahoma State - 6 ('45, '46, '49, '51, '95, '04)
Oklahoma - 5 ('39, '47, '88, '02, '16)
Kansas State - 4 ('48, '51, '58, '64)
Texas - 3 ('43, '47, '03)
Baylor - 2 ('48, '50)
West Virginia - 2 ('59, '10)
Iowa State - 1 ('44)

Big 12 Regular Season Championships
Kansas - 18
Texas - 3 (includes 2 ties with KU)
Iowa State - 2
Oklahoma State - 1
Oklahoma - 1 (tied with KU)
Kansas State - 1 (tied with KU)

Big 12 Tournament Championships
Kansas - 11
Iowa State - 4
Oklahoma - 3
Oklahoma State - 2
Missouri - 2

Big 8 Regular Season Championships
Kansas - 43
Kansas State - 17
Missouri - 15
Oklahoma - 13
Nebraska - 7
Colorado - 5
Iowa State - 4
Oklahoma State - 2
Drake/Grinnell/Washington (St. Louis) - 0

Big 8 Tournament Championships
Missouri - 6
Kansas - 4
Oklahoma - 4
Oklahoma State - 2
Kansas State - 2
Iowa State/Nebraska - 1
Colorado - 0

Edited to Add National Championships for @teachum
Kansas - 3 - ('52, '88, '08)
Oklahoma State - 2 - ('45, '46)

The national championships don't really change my perception of the historic value of OSU's program. For context, in 1945-6:
* Hitler was in power in 1945
* I'm a 40 year old man and my parents were five years from being born
* Another "basketball power" who has two NCs? San Francisco, and they did it back-to-back in '55/'56, ten years after OSU.
* The average home in the US cost $5,600.
* OU had yet to claim a single football national championship, although Alabama was already claiming three by that time.
 
Last edited:
Jul 25, 2018
1,418
406
163
48
Boulder, CO
#68
Maybe this is another thread... I love OSU, was there a couple of weeks ago giving a speech. But, this idea that OSU has been a basketball powerhouse isn't based in reality. We've won some amazing games over the year, but the hardware and post season accolades don't support this.

If OSU can be a consistent NCAA tournament team with either a regular season or Big 12 tourney title every 7 years, it would be an improvement. Heck, if we can finish top 3 every year with an 8 seed in the NCAA tourney, it would be a great.

Looking at the history below, and including Big 8/12 results, my ranking would be:

1) KU
2) OU
3) KSU
4) OSU
5) Neb
6) UT
7) Mizzou
8) ISU
9) WVU
10) CU
11) Bay (should lose points for being scum)
12) TT
13) TCU

NCAA Tournament Bids
Kansas - 47
Texas - 34
Oklahoma - 31
Kansas State - 30
West Virginia - 29
Oklahoma State - 28
Iowa State - 19
Texas Tech - 15
Baylor - 11
TCU - 8

NCAA Final Four Appearances (bold years indicate that it happened during the lifetime of an 18 year old recruit)
Kansas - 15 ('40, '52, '53, '57, '71, '74, '86, '88, '91, '93, '02, '03, '08, '12, '18)
Oklahoma State - 6 ('45, '46, '49, '51, '95, '04)
Oklahoma - 5 ('39, '47, '88, '02, '16)
Kansas State - 4 ('48, '51, '58, '64)
Texas - 3 ('43, '47, '03)
Baylor - 2 ('48, '50)
West Virginia - 2 ('59, '10)
Iowa State - 1 ('44)

Big 12 Regular Season Championships
Kansas - 18
Texas - 3 (includes 2 ties with KU)
Iowa State - 2
Oklahoma State - 1
Oklahoma - 1 (tied with KU)
Kansas State - 1 (tied with KU)

Big 12 Tournament Championships
Kansas - 11
Iowa State - 4
Oklahoma - 3
Oklahoma State - 2
Missouri - 2

Big 8 Regular Season Championships
Kansas - 43
Kansas State - 17
Missouri - 15
Oklahoma - 13
Nebraska - 7
Colorado - 5
Iowa State - 4
Oklahoma State - 2
Drake/Grinnell/Washington (St. Louis) - 0

Big 8 Tournament Championships
Missouri - 6
Kansas - 4
Oklahoma - 4
Oklahoma State - 2
Kansas State - 2
Iowa State/Nebraska - 1
Colorado - 0

Very well said. This discussion has come up multiple times in comparison to OU's history, & more recently, Illinois' when Underwood left.
 
Aug 8, 2008
1,024
272
1,713
OKC
#69
But we can also assume that everyone else in the big 12 Will also have a team that is a year older and a year more experienced next year. And any seniors that they do graduate will be replaced by freshman recruits at least as good as the ones we have signed, right?
One team down the road graduates 5 seniors.
 
Aug 8, 2008
1,024
272
1,713
OKC
#70
First of all, Texas Tech is really good. Maybe not Final Four good, but they are heavily improved over the last three seasons. Defensively, they're dangerous.

Second, WE WILL GET THERE. This is a throwaway season, unfortunately, but such happens when you're trying to establish a mindset and a culture. Boynton will get us there.
Funny, but I don't consider this a throwaway season. For program building, I think every kid and every minute ultimately proves very valuable. I am very proud of this team. These guys work their tails off, seem to truly care for each other and want to improve for their coach. I think Boynton is building young men with character. The dumbsh*** who left, likely won’t see their last days of trouble.
 
Aug 8, 2008
1,024
272
1,713
OKC
#71
I agree it’s tough, but somehow 265 other NCAA coaches have successfully prevented their guys from playing with BB guns in parking lots in the first place.

When my brother and I first read the article, we said “that could only happen to OSU”. Why is it that many people just aren’t even surprised? It’s like a train wreck I can’t look away from.
But they have to provide proof, not just hope, that they can play and complete and win against top conference teams before I will feel like spending my money on tickets again.
Other NCAA coaches haven’t been immune from stupid behavior by players. We just don’t read or hear alot about it in Oklahoma.
 

CTeamPoke

Legendary Cowboy
Jun 18, 2008
44,073
46,874
1,743
Dallas, TX
#72
Maybe this is another thread... I love OSU, was there a couple of weeks ago giving a speech. But, this idea that OSU has been a basketball powerhouse isn't based in reality. We've won some amazing games over the year, but the hardware and post season accolades don't support this.

If OSU can be a consistent NCAA tournament team with either a regular season or Big 12 tourney title every 7 years, it would be an improvement. Heck, if we can finish top 3 every year with an 8 seed in the NCAA tourney, it would be a great.

Looking at the history below, and including Big 8/12 results, my ranking would be:

1) KU
2) OU
3) KSU
4) OSU
5) Neb
6) UT
7) Mizzou
8) ISU
9) WVU
10) CU
11) Bay (should lose points for being scum)
12) TT
13) TCU

NCAA Tournament Bids
Kansas - 47
Texas - 34
Oklahoma - 31
Kansas State - 30
West Virginia - 29
Oklahoma State - 28
Iowa State - 19
Texas Tech - 15
Baylor - 11
TCU - 8

NCAA Final Four Appearances (bold years indicate that it happened during the lifetime of an 18 year old recruit)
Kansas - 15 ('40, '52, '53, '57, '71, '74, '86, '88, '91, '93, '02, '03, '08, '12, '18)
Oklahoma State - 6 ('45, '46, '49, '51, '95, '04)
Oklahoma - 5 ('39, '47, '88, '02, '16)
Kansas State - 4 ('48, '51, '58, '64)
Texas - 3 ('43, '47, '03)
Baylor - 2 ('48, '50)
West Virginia - 2 ('59, '10)
Iowa State - 1 ('44)

Big 12 Regular Season Championships
Kansas - 18
Texas - 3 (includes 2 ties with KU)
Iowa State - 2
Oklahoma State - 1
Oklahoma - 1 (tied with KU)
Kansas State - 1 (tied with KU)

Big 12 Tournament Championships
Kansas - 11
Iowa State - 4
Oklahoma - 3
Oklahoma State - 2
Missouri - 2

Big 8 Regular Season Championships
Kansas - 43
Kansas State - 17
Missouri - 15
Oklahoma - 13
Nebraska - 7
Colorado - 5
Iowa State - 4
Oklahoma State - 2
Drake/Grinnell/Washington (St. Louis) - 0

Big 8 Tournament Championships
Missouri - 6
Kansas - 4
Oklahoma - 4
Oklahoma State - 2
Kansas State - 2
Iowa State/Nebraska - 1
Colorado - 0
You can't seriously name 15-20 programs with better history than OSU. The 1962-1989 dark period is significant... No doubt... But the Iba and Sutton years were good enough to put us in the top tier of college basketball. National writers like Seth Davis and Gary Parrish agree.
 
Nov 6, 2010
601
255
613
#73
You can't seriously name 15-20 programs with better history than OSU. The 1962-1989 dark period is significant... No doubt... But the Iba and Sutton years were good enough to put us in the top tier of college basketball. National writers like Seth Davis and Gary Parrish agree.
Not to mention he left out the kinda important national championships stat.
 
Sep 23, 2018
1,181
342
163
37
Memphis
#75
Funny, but I don't consider this a throwaway season. For program building, I think every kid and every minute ultimately proves very valuable. I am very proud of this team. These guys work their tails off, seem to truly care for each other and want to improve for their coach. I think Boynton is building young men with character. The dumbsh*** who left, likely won’t see their last days of trouble.
"Throwaway" in the sense that expectations are low, friend. Not in the sense you're describing.
 

CaliforniaCowboy

Federal Marshal
Oct 15, 2003
15,702
2,469
1,743
So Cal
#76
The 1962-1989 dark period is significant... No doubt... .
some of my all time favorite players came from that era (Matt Clark, Leroy Combs, etc., and oddly Bill Self), which is too bad really... plus Leonard Hamilton brought in some good players.... Richard Dumas, Royce Jeffries, John Starks, Byron Houston, Johnny Pittman, etc...
 
Jan 21, 2006
1,500
971
1,743
74
Boulder
#77
some of my all time favorite players came from that era (Matt Clark, Leroy Combs, etc., and oddly Bill Self), which is too bad really... plus Leonard Hamilton brought in some good players.... Richard Dumas, Royce Jeffries, John Starks, Byron Houston, Johnny Pittman, etc...
I am wondering why Hamilton left. He had some good players recruited, so the cupboard wasn't bare when Eddie arrived. Sean at the point probably cemented the group.
 
Aug 16, 2012
1,288
801
743
56
#79
some of my all time favorite players came from that era (Matt Clark, Leroy Combs, etc., and oddly Bill Self), which is too bad really... plus Leonard Hamilton brought in some good players.... Richard Dumas, Royce Jeffries, John Starks, Byron Houston, Johnny Pittman, etc...
Thomas Jordan
 
Sep 23, 2010
1,067
729
743
#80
We have some solid guys. We need one or two develop further, and one or two new guys to be impact players. I think the mix of young talent and experienced role players should mesh. It will be interesting to see how Boynton goes with things. For us to reach maximum potential, he will have to start some of the more talented freshmen even though he will initially trust his older guys.

Still think we need a transfer big....then one or two best available.