New evidence tying Hunter Biden business to communist China and Russia

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Feb 7, 2007
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He would have been convicted if it went to sentencing. Didn't happen.
A guilty plea is tantamount to a conviction. He was already guilty. Just the sentencing remained.

For instance if I get a DUI and admit guilt I am still technically convicted of a felony. Even though a judge or jury didn't actually convict me because I PLEAD GUILTY. It literally skips that step. No trial necessary when you PLEAD GUILTY.:facepalm:
 
Jun 20, 2012
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You realize this is just to lengthen the threads so no one reads the nonsense, right? There’s a reason every argument shifts to different subject matter by the same two idiots.
 

CowboyJD

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Dec 10, 2004
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When was he convicted? Last I heard charges had been dropped.
Charges were still pending when he received a pardon.

Acceptance of a pardon imputes guilt.

Supreme Court has said so.

How can a pardon be an admission of guilt?

If I pardon you, does that make you guilty?

Please show me that law.
Burdick v. United States, 236 U.S. 79 (1915)

"There are substantial differences between legislative immunity and a pardon; the latter carries an imputation of guilt and acceptance of a confession of it, while the former is noncommittal, and tantamount to silence of the witness."
 
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CowboyJD

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December 8, 2020, Judge Sullivan dismissed the criminal case against Flynn. If he was convicted it shouldn't be difficult to find a date.
Because Flynn accepted and used the pardon.

The acceptance and use of carries a confession of the crime as a matter of law pursuant to U.S. Supreme Court Decision.
 

CowboyJD

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So technically speaking, he wasn't convicted.

But was established as guilty of the crime he was accused by acceptance and use of the pardon.

He was presumed innocent until he plead guilty under oath. At that point, he lost the presumption of innocence but was not subsequently convicted.

At the point he accepted and used the pardon to avoid further prosecution, such use carries imputation of a confession of guilt as a matter of law so his guilt was established in a court of law.
 

Binman4OSU

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Aug 31, 2007
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Stupid about AGW!!
So technically speaking, he wasn't convicted.

But was established as guilty of the crime he was accused by acceptance and use of the pardon.

He was presumed innocent until he plead guilty under oath. At that point, he lost the presumption of innocence but was not subsequently convicted.

At the point he accepted and used the pardon to avoid further prosecution, such use carries imputation of a confession of guilt as a matter of law so his guilt was established in a court of law.
but but but but the judge didn't bang his little wooden hammer and say Convicted....therefore I can make up all the things about it now right ?

SCOTUS has always held that a pardon is an admission of guilt

Meaning if Trump pardons himself or any members of his family then they are admitting guilt to a crime the pardon will forgive.
 

CowboyJD

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but but but but the judge didn't bang his little wooden hammer and say Convicted....therefore I can make up all the things about it now right ?

SCOTUS has always held that a pardon is an admission of guilt

Meaning if Trump pardons himself or any members of his family then they are admitting guilt to a crime the pardon will forgive.
I'm beyond trying to convince anyone of anything.

I'm beyond characterizing or asserting what anyone else has to say.

I'm just here stating what the law is with actual citation to authority and facts.

Don't really care what anyone does with it or how they take it or whether they believe it.

It is what it is. Facts (and the law) don't give a *&^% about their feelings.
 

CowboyJD

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Meaning if Trump pardons himself or any members of his family then they are admitting guilt to a crime the pardon will forgive.
Well, whether or not Trump can even pardon himself would be a question of first impression. I'm not so sure he can do that. There are arguments on both sides, but it has never been tried by a President so it's never been ruled upon.

Ford granted Nixon a blanket pardon for his term in office. It's an interesting question as to the legal effect of a blanket pardon as opposed to the usual type of pardon for specific alleged crimes.

And to be entirely accurate, the granting of a pardon IMPUTES guilt by grantor of the pardon (which is different than an admission by the recipient), it is the acceptance and use of a pardon that constitutes an admission of guilt.

A proactive blanket pardon would impute guilt for unnamed/unspecified crimes. It probably wouldn't need to even be accepted or used by the recipient and therefore, wouldn't serve as an admission of guilt.

The primary effect of such a blanket pardon would mostly be that any investigations that may be ongoing or contemplate would probably just stop as being no longer prosecution worth because they could just use the pardon if they were charged.
 
Feb 7, 2007
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Well, whether or not Trump can even pardon himself would be a question of first impression. I'm not so sure he can do that. There are arguments on both sides, but it has never been tried by a President so it's never been ruled upon.

Ford granted Nixon a blanket pardon for his term in office. It's an interesting question as to the legal effect of a blanket pardon as opposed to the usual type of pardon for specific alleged crimes.

And to be entirely accurate, the granting of a pardon IMPUTES guilt by grantor of the pardon (which is different than an admission by the recipient), it is the acceptance and use of a pardon that constitutes an admission of guilt.

A proactive blanket pardon would impute guilt for unnamed/unspecified crimes. It probably wouldn't need to even be accepted or used by the recipient and therefore, wouldn't serve as an admission of guilt.

The primary effect of such a blanket pardon would mostly be that any investigations that may be ongoing or contemplate would probably just stop as being no longer prosecution worth because they could just use the pardon if they were charged.
Would a pardon be only be for crimes before the pardon date? So if for example Trump pardons himself then later dips his hand into campaign money illegally that could still be prosecuted right?
 

CowboyJD

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Would a pardon be only be for crimes before the pardon date? So if for example Trump pardons himself then later dips his hand into campaign money illegally that could still be prosecuted right?
You can't prospectively pardon crimes yet to have been committed.