Message for Men's Basketball seniors

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Sep 23, 2010
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#21
Kansas has been playing 4 guards since Josh Jackson and that team went to the Final 4. Bill Self has tried to go back to his 3out2in roots, and he continually learns to go back to 4out with 4 guards. De Sousa was hardly playing when he got suspended because he chose Udoka and McCormack over De Sousa as the 5.

K State started Sneed at the 4, who had been a 3 otherwise his whole career. Doolittle for OU is not a big man that played the four for OU.

Hell, we played 4 guards in 04 and 05 with IMAC (all 6'7 of him) as our center. I like the idea of being smaller and more dynamic. Do you have to have bigger, tougher guards like Ice and Cunnigham to pull it off? Yes
 
Feb 24, 2020
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#23
And we don’t have that kind of center to pull it off. I like yor but he’s no Azubuike. Imagine one of our guards banging with Oscar tshiebwe from WVU or Clark and from Baylor. I just don’t we have the guards to pull it off. Hell, most of our guard can’t shoot from the perimeter well so it would be a mistake. Kansas has guards that can shoot...we don’t. Why should we go to a 4 guard lineup with maybe 1 that can shoot from the perimeter? It’s a moot point b/c I don’t see it happening based on how we’re recruiting
 

RutherfordFan

Federal Marshal
Feb 5, 2008
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#24
And we don’t have that kind of center to pull it off. I like yor but he’s no Azubuike. Imagine one of our guards banging with Oscar tshiebwe from WVU or Clark and from Baylor. I just don’t we have the guards to pull it off. Hell, most of our guard can’t shoot from the perimeter well so it would be a mistake. Kansas has guards that can shoot...we don’t. Why should we go to a 4 guard lineup with maybe 1 that can shoot from the perimeter? It’s a moot point b/c I don’t see it happening based on how we’re recruiting
Next year we could do it.
 
Sep 23, 2010
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#26
I agree that Azubukie is better. But we have 40minutes of Yor/Boone by the end of the year, and that gave us an edge at the 5 position for combined 40minutes versus most oppenents.

The shooting is the whole reason I think Ice might have to move to that point forward spot. I just don't see enough shooting for him and Cade to play 1 and 3 at the same time. Add two marginal shooting bigs and there just isn't enough space for Cade to operate. This is all about spacing. If they are at the 1 and 4, and you play Keylan and Harris with them per se, then you have some more shooting out there and more space. Yor/Boone as your rim rollers and post ups threats.

It gives the opportunity to play our best players more minutes I think.

I don't know. Just thoughts. Definitely where the math is telling the us the game should go as well.
 
Feb 24, 2020
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#27
Keylan and Harris aren't capable shooters, much less proven.....and with JT Thor announcing us in his top 3, I just don't see where Boynton is thinking small ball, much less a 4 guard lineup. Our personnel doesn't suggest it IMO. Harris was pretty bad from 3 shooting at 20% and shot under 30% from the field, not someone I'd thrust into the lineup. Keylan shot 34% from 3, which isn't bad, but nothing to crow home about. He shot about 40% from the field, which is okay, but nothing to brag about.

Me personally, play the 5 best players that give you the best chance to win, and try not to put a square peg in a round hole. I don't think Harris (assuming he comes back from his knee injury) and Keylan are you're 5 best players. Kinda like this years team was trying to jack up 3's, and it took them over half the season to realize we're not a perimeter oriented team. Wouldn't mind 4 guards, but I just don't see it happening with much success.
 
Sep 23, 2010
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#28
Keylan and Harris aren't capable shooters, much less proven.....and with JT Thor announcing us in his top 3, I just don't see where Boynton is thinking small ball, much less a 4 guard lineup. Our personnel doesn't suggest it IMO. Harris was pretty bad from 3 shooting at 20% and shot under 30% from the field, not someone I'd thrust into the lineup. Keylan shot 34% from 3, which isn't bad, but nothing to crow home about. He shot about 40% from the field, which is okay, but nothing to brag about.

Me personally, play the 5 best players that give you the best chance to win, and try not to put a square peg in a round hole. I don't think Harris (assuming he comes back from his knee injury) and Keylan are you're 5 best players. Kinda like this years team was trying to jack up 3's, and it took them over half the season to realize we're not a perimeter oriented team. Wouldn't mind 4 guards, but I just don't see it happening with much success.
I just said Harris and Boone per se. Doesn't mean I think they will be the two. But we have this bevy of perimeter guys who were all well recruited (Anderson, Harris, Key Boone, Walker, Moncriefe). All of these kids were top 150 kids besides Keylan. Cunningham and Ice will be our two best guards, and Yor/Boone will be a great combo at the 5. The role players do have to fit in some way with that combo. Adding non-shooting bigs will clog up the driving lanes even more. Play with a smaller, quicker line up and spread the floor, it makes people (and big guys) come out and guard you.

JT Thor would be great because he can shoot it as a 4man. And he would fit great with Ice and Cunningham. McGriff would fit in great. But here's some food for thought. Thor weighs 190, ICE weighs 215.
 
Feb 24, 2020
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#30
I just said Harris and Boone per se. Doesn't mean I think they will be the two. But we have this bevy of perimeter guys who were all well recruited (Anderson, Harris, Key Boone, Walker, Moncriefe). All of these kids were top 150 kids besides Keylan. Cunningham and Ice will be our two best guards, and Yor/Boone will be a great combo at the 5. The role players do have to fit in some way with that combo. Adding non-shooting bigs will clog up the driving lanes even more. Play with a smaller, quicker line up and spread the floor, it makes people (and big guys) come out and guard you.

JT Thor would be great because he can shoot it as a 4man. And he would fit great with Ice and Cunningham. McGriff would fit in great. But here's some food for thought. Thor weighs 190, ICE weighs 215.
Oh I know JT Thor is slim....kid is a tooth pick, and quite honestly I don't know we still land him. His recruitment has been odd to say the least.. I know how highly ranked these kids are, but until they get on campus, you don't know what you have, unless it's someone like a Cade Cunningham. If you get a grad transfer that can shoot, then maybe you could flirt with the idea of a 4 guard lineup.

Moncrief isn't a guard, more of a SF, stretch 4 if needed. He's said in interviews, he's coming in to play the 3 and compete for a job as a true freshman. Kid is more of a slasher than a shooter at this stage. Anderson needs to work on his shooting, but I don't know if having 3 PG's in a starting 5 is ideal? Walker can play defense, and his shooting has improved quite a bit from his junior to senior year. Maybe he's ready to play as a freshman?

We're losing Waters and Dizzy, and the shooting is a huge drop off, which is why a grad transfer that can shoot is important, and we're actively seeking. We've also contacted Kevin Marfo, the nations leading rebounder. Again, it tends to me to think we're trying to play big, not small.

I just think you'll see Ice and Cade as your backcourt, and you'll likely see a traditional lineup with Boone and Anei at the 4 and 5 respectively. Might not make sense, but hearing Boynton talk about size and length, tends me to think more of a traditional lineup. Maybe Ice improves his shooting over the summer, which needs to happen especially if he has NBA aspirations.
 
Jun 23, 2005
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#31
I would like to see the seniors have the option of coming back to their school for one more year. No graduate transfers, but if they want to come back for one more year on their team, let them. Their scholarships don’t count against the overall number. In terms of who plays next year, let the coaches and players figure that out on the court. These are extraordinary times and letting that small group of kids come back if they want to seems like the right thing to do.
 
Sep 23, 2010
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#32
I would like to see the seniors have the option of coming back to their school for one more year. No graduate transfers, but if they want to come back for one more year on their team, let them. Their scholarships don’t count against the overall number. In terms of who plays next year, let the coaches and players figure that out on the court. These are extraordinary times and letting that small group of kids come back if they want to seems like the right thing to do.
I think the real issue with giving the seniors in basketball another year is you open pandora's box a bit. Every kid..freshmen, sophomore, junior will then be potentially looking for that extra year for the same reasons you give the seniors.

Spring is easy, it's like every kid gets to use a redshirt year I imagine. Do we really want to give that option to every basketball player. I mean Iowa State's season was over.
 
Sep 23, 2010
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#33
Oh I know JT Thor is slim....kid is a tooth pick, and quite honestly I don't know we still land him. His recruitment has been odd to say the least.. I know how highly ranked these kids are, but until they get on campus, you don't know what you have, unless it's someone like a Cade Cunningham. If you get a grad transfer that can shoot, then maybe you could flirt with the idea of a 4 guard lineup.

Moncrief isn't a guard, more of a SF, stretch 4 if needed. He's said in interviews, he's coming in to play the 3 and compete for a job as a true freshman. Kid is more of a slasher than a shooter at this stage. Anderson needs to work on his shooting, but I don't know if having 3 PG's in a starting 5 is ideal? Walker can play defense, and his shooting has improved quite a bit from his junior to senior year. Maybe he's ready to play as a freshman?

We're losing Waters and Dizzy, and the shooting is a huge drop off, which is why a grad transfer that can shoot is important, and we're actively seeking. We've also contacted Kevin Marfo, the nations leading rebounder. Again, it tends to me to think we're trying to play big, not small.

I just think you'll see Ice and Cade as your backcourt, and you'll likely see a traditional lineup with Boone and Anei at the 4 and 5 respectively. Might not make sense, but hearing Boynton talk about size and length, tends me to think more of a traditional lineup. Maybe Ice improves his shooting over the summer, which needs to happen especially if he has NBA aspirations.
I am 100% on board with getting some more shooting in on this roster.
 
Feb 27, 2018
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#35
Frank Bonner II's season recap here. Excerpt...

Oklahoma State was playing its best basketball of the year before COVID-19 shut down the NCAA basketball season.

A 72-71 win over Iowa State in the first round of the Big 12 Tournament was the fourth consecutive win for a Cowboys team that reinvented its offense by throwing the ball inside the paint.

“I do believe we were playing as well as anybody in our conference,” OSU coach Mike Boynton said, whose team went 7-2 over its last nine games.

OSU was scheduled to play against No. 1 Kansas in the next round and the Cowboys never got a chance to see if they could make a postseason run by upsetting the top-ranked team in the country. Three senior captains, Thomas Dziagwa, Lindy Waters III and Cameron McGriff, had an abrupt ending to their careers but at least they got to end the year on a high note.
Also on MBB note, Bill Haisten's column today...

On Feb. 1, after a Bedlam loss at Norman, the Cowboys bused back to Stillwater with an 0-8 mark in Big 12 play. It had to have been a miserable trip and a miserable time for everyone in the program, and yet no one quit on Boynton. Literally or figuratively.

That says a lot about the coach and his people skills, and Boynton drove OSU to an 8-3 record down the stretch.

The Cowboys closed with a four-game win streak that included a beautifully played and dominant victory at Texas and a dramatic Big 12 Tournament triumph over Iowa State. Boynton takes momentum into the 2020-21 season, during which he attempts to avoid the type of midseason lull that defined each of his first three seasons.

I do think Boynton is a good coach. I know he’s a good man and a great fit at OSU, but for him and all others who’ll coach Cowboy basketball, the Eddie Sutton standard won’t fade. It’s permanent.
 
Sep 23, 2010
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#36
In response to Haisten's column, I think our program currently sits where it sat in 1997 team that went 7-9. Coach Sutton enjoyed the many talents that Hamilton had in the stable, and Coach landed Rutherford, Country and Thompson. Then recruiting took a dip after 95 and it took a couple years to get it back right. Then you have Adkins, Peterson, DMase and Gottlieb as sophs ready to blossom in 98. But Coach Sutton had the equity. We know if Coach Sutton has good enough players, he's going to get it done.

Next year is Boynton's time. But middle of the pack in the league and losing the first round of the NCAA is not going to be a good outlook for him. I think he needs minimum top 4 finish and minimum NCAA round of 32. Cunningham is too talented. Yor and Ice bring the experience needed. And the freshmen need to graduate to sophomores and be impact guys next year. I want him to do it, and my gut tells me he can do it.