MBB: Oklahoma State Cowboys vs #3 Kansas Jayhawks (ESPN2 8PM GIA BIG MONDAY)

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Rack

Legendary Cowboy
Oct 13, 2004
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if the guys are running the offense and getting open looks, it’s on them.

I know what bad coaching looks like - witnessed the Leonard Hamilton-led pokes first hand. NBA talent with no leadership. THAT was bad coaching. You’d see flurries where they absolutely obliterated the opponent - men vs boys. This team has never shown us a whiff of that.

we have a solid stable of coaches looking for a solution. I support their efforts and appreciate the challenges they face.
Actually they did in Brooklyn NY early...that's what's so frustrating.
 
Jan 13, 2008
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lol..........

So the only way we can avoid those things is for them to leave? :facepalm::lol::derp:
You expecting McGriff, Waters, and Dizzy to get a 5th year? I think there is more talent on the bench, so it can't be worse.

McGriff is the highest rated recruit out of the 3. Out of Avery, Harris, and the Boone twins, the only one rated lower than McGriff is Keylan. Plus the addition of Cade and Walker. Yes, I expect it to be better next year. But I'm really looking forward to them, not being an option.

I agree with a lot of things you say, but sometimes you are just in all-out-attack anger mode at EVERYONE on this board.
 

Birry

Federal Marshal
Feb 6, 2007
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You said “What evidence do you have that suggests we won't do exactly the same things next season?

Yeah, they won’t be here NEXT SEASON!
You're really struggling with this, aren't you?

I'm questioning why our coach is choosing to play these guys when they are a liability on defense and keep shooting poorly. If we have all this better talent on the roster, why aren't we putting it on the floor? If you're suggesting that they just aren't good enough yet, then I'd ask why that even matters when we're winless in conference play even with our "better" players on the floor. We literally can't do worse than winning zero games. To me, it's really concerning that our coach is choosing to play these guys while we're winless, and not choosing to develop the guys that will take us through conference play next season.

My question also digs into future scenarios where defensive liabilities and poor shooters are allowed to continue playing, even after Cam, Lindy, and Dizzy are gone. It's not like those guys are some unique set of players at OSU. I'd argue that they're the norm, and until Boynton can recruit and retain highly ranked guys, then evidence supports my argument. So........what happens when future mediocre players are shooting poorly or playing bad defense?

You seem to have this built-in assumption that we have a talent problem this season, and that all future teams will have more talent. I challenge that assumption, because we simply haven't seen it happen yet under Boynton; primarily because he can't keep them on campus. The latter is concerning by itself. We've also seen our senior regress over the last two seasons, which is ultra concerning.

To break it down so there is no confusion:
I like Boynton, and I hope he grows into a great coach at OSU.
But...
He seems like he's in over his head at times.
He seems reluctant to be tough on his players.
He seems reluctant to change his approach, even when his current approach is clearly not working.
He hasn't proven that he can recruit guys that will stay on campus.
He hasn't proven that he can improve the talent that he has on campus now.
 
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Sep 17, 2016
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We were 5-13 in conference last year. We will be worse this season almost guaranteed. What coach of any D1 school that cares about basketball would keep a coach that the results are going down every year since he took over.

That is 3 years of results of his coaching. Last year, we talked about this season turning around once we got depth etc. This is on the coaching. Boynton has taken us to a new low of being bad that we haven't seen in 30 years. This isnt on the talent.
 
Jan 13, 2008
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Our football program and our basketball program aren't even in the same Universe...Football is LIGHT YEARS ahead of the basketball black hole we are trapped in...So just don't EVEN go there @SlurrrPup.
I didn't say anything about the program itself. I'm saying it was the excuse used when discussing a REDSHIRT-Freshman QB, so should it not be acceptable if it is used when applying to a TRUE-Freshman or Sophomore basketball player?

You're an emotional one, @Rack :lol:
 

Birry

Federal Marshal
Feb 6, 2007
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Get ready. The motto for next year will be
“Expect these things because we are so young.”
And we already know which posters will be saying that. Oddly enough, it's probably the same ones predicting how much better we'll be due to Cunningham and the "next year" factor. They'll turn on a dime when it doesn't pan out that way, and they'll start blaming our youth. They do not accept reality - only their orange-colored delusion.
 

RAGMAN

Greenhorn
Jan 7, 2020
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It takes a great deal of time and experience to learn the intricacies of coaching basketball. It is the one sport in which coaching most influences the outcome of games. Because of the continual flow of each game and the need to react to scoring runs or the dry spells, the decisions made in-game often directly dictate the opportunity to win or lose. A person (even one that was a high level player) does not inherently possess the ability to make those decisions on a rapid fire basis. The only teaching tool for a basketball coach is actual coaching experience.

Maybe in the future Boynton will have acquired that experience. Maybe he will learn there are times for patience and there are times when certain individuals need some extra incentive beyond clapping. He does not have that experience now. Yet he was out in charge of guiding a team through the most difficult conference in the country.. look at who he faces game after game. Self, Huggins, Kruger, Weber, Smart, Beard and Dixon. If you know their history each came up through the ranks first as assistants and the progressed as head coaches of less known programs. They were not thrust into the lion’s den in their first position.

I am mystified with Boynton’s absolute refusal to get into the face of a player. Ever!!! He coached under Frank Martin and Underwood. You have no doubt observed their demeanor with certain players at certain times. He played for Eddie Folger who was not Prince Charming. That is what is most disturbing to me. It suggests he cannot adapt his personality to the different personalities of his players. None of us are the same. We each react differently to stimulus or lack thereof. He just claps his hands for all efforts, good or bad.

We are stuck with him. It will not get better in one year. He may adapt after years of failure, but it will not be here.
 
Jan 13, 2008
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Being a starting QB as a freshman is nothing like coming off the bench in basketball. Plus, he showed signs of improvement.
I agree they are largely different, but that is due to the position.

He went into Corvallis on a Friday night and managed the game. His turnover issue didn't start until his 3rd game.He had a 7 game stretch with 11 INTs and 7 Fumbles (5 lost). That is 2.3 turnovers per game. I think those numbers are too big for a Redshirt-Freshman at QB

Even though there were times I wanted Brown in the game, a full game of Sanders with turnovers is probably better than a full game of Brown.
 
Jun 9, 2008
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I’m still gonna support Boyton and he deserves most of the blame but Sutton and Cooper deserve some blame as well. The three senior leaders make freshmen mistakes and regressed this season. Them regressing is on the coaching staff as a whole. At least the past two seasons if they had a rough shooting night they still tried hard and played defense. Now it seems like their disinterested and Cam’s comments last night was pretty revealing.
 
Sep 23, 2010
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The energy level has dropped. Maybe our seniors were fighting for their scholarship last year, and that's why they had the no quit attitude they had a year ago despite a difficult season. I don't understand how they have given up on themselves so easily. There is just not much self-belief it seems. Since Ice's illness, there is no juice. We are in no man's land right now. We aren't fully invested in our young guys, and we aren't fully invested in our seniors. We are in the middle of that, and it seems that it causing some apathy by both sides.