Looking at HS Football Talent Over Time

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Jun 4, 2014
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Dallas, TX
#21
Tackling. Get rid of the damn donut drill. Do real tackling drills in practice all season long. Head up, drive through, wrap arms around.
The donut drill is so stupid. I get player safety, but you can't take tackling out of the game. We are scared to expose our players to the sport they play on Saturdays during the week. You play how your practice, and unfortunately for our defense, we don't play donuts on Saturdays.
 
Jun 4, 2014
930
689
143
Dallas, TX
#22
Feels like every team's defense struggles lol Even Bama got exposed in one game. OU struggled. Ohio State struggled. Michigan struggled last 2 games. It is a fact that if you do not have NFL talent and depth across the defensive front 3 or 4 then struggling is common. Elite teams have NFL DL. Most teams have one or maybe two draftable type DL talent which is not enough.

Besides capturing lightning in a bottle, what are some ways you think we can improve our defense?
Defense needs to be culturally important to the team and the players we recruit. Currently we live and breathe from offense. We've proven we can get guys to the NFL on defense, particularly the secondary. But we need to establish a culture of defense.

Linebacker is the biggest weakness we've had when it comes to talent at the next level. Our LB's have been out of position for a long time. Hopefully the new DC can change that, since Spencer was over them for a long time.

Hit on recruited talent. You can practice all day, but if at the end you don't have the talent, you can only be so good. Cristiano Ronaldo continually preaches that.
 

RxCowboy

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Nov 8, 2004
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#24
Tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling tackling

It doesn't require "elite NFL talent" to wrap up. It requires teaching proper technique and practicing it over and over and over and over.
 

John C

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Oct 13, 2011
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#25
I enjoyed the original post. Please don't take my comments as being critical; I just see some events that have to be considered.
As an example, look at the Game of the Century in 1969--there were lots of Games of the Century in the previous century--Arky versus Texass, it was a Whites Only affair. The Brown Cow Worshipers didn't have a black scholarship player until 1970--Julius Whitaker. Arky recruited one (John Richardson) in 1969, but freshmen weren't eligible then. Arky had a walk-on in 1965, but he never played in a varsity game and quit after a year or two.
Aggy had two blacks in 1967, but didn't really begin recruiting African Americans until 1972. Auburn signed their first black in 1969 and Bama signed their first two in 1971.
Next, here is the link to the players Grambling has put into the NFL and/or the former AFL https://www.pro-football-reference.com/schools/gramblingst/ Look at the players they put into the League prior to the early 1990s or so. Buck Buchanan, for example, the first player taken in the AFL draft in 1963. Richard Harris, the fifth person taken in the 1971 draft. Doug Williams, 1st round, 1978, Super Bowl winning QB. I doubt any of those guys had SEC offers.
Here's my point, or my question. Were guys like this even ranked when the white schools weren't recruiting black players, or weren't recruiting them heavily? Has there really been a demographic shift, or is it just that all of the African American kids in the Old South are being ranked now when they weren't before because the white schools weren't recruiting them? Did Buck Buchanan get any stars back then? I'm pretty sure at worst he would be a four star today, and if Bama recruited him, definitely a five.
 
Sep 23, 2018
1,181
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Memphis
#26
I enjoyed the original post. Please don't take my comments as being critical; I just see some events that have to be considered.
As an example, look at the Game of the Century in 1969--there were lots of Games of the Century in the previous century--Arky versus Texass, it was a Whites Only affair. The Brown Cow Worshipers didn't have a black scholarship player until 1970--Julius Whitaker. Arky recruited one (John Richardson) in 1969, but freshmen weren't eligible then. Arky had a walk-on in 1965, but he never played in a varsity game and quit after a year or two.
Aggy had two blacks in 1967, but didn't really begin recruiting African Americans until 1972. Auburn signed their first black in 1969 and Bama signed their first two in 1971.
Next, here is the link to the players Grambling has put into the NFL and/or the former AFL https://www.pro-football-reference.com/schools/gramblingst/ Look at the players they put into the League prior to the early 1990s or so. Buck Buchanan, for example, the first player taken in the AFL draft in 1963. Richard Harris, the fifth person taken in the 1971 draft. Doug Williams, 1st round, 1978, Super Bowl winning QB. I doubt any of those guys had SEC offers.
Here's my point, or my question. Were guys like this even ranked when the white schools weren't recruiting black players, or weren't recruiting them heavily? Has there really been a demographic shift, or is it just that all of the African American kids in the Old South are being ranked now when they weren't before because the white schools weren't recruiting them? Did Buck Buchanan get any stars back then? I'm pretty sure at worst he would be a four star today, and if Bama recruited him, definitely a five.
This is a very intriguing inquiry, and I'd love to know the answer.
 

RxCowboy

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Nov 8, 2004
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#27
Look at the players they put into the League prior to the early 1990s or so. Buck Buchanan, for example, the first player taken in the AFL draft in 1963. Richard Harris, the fifth person taken in the 1971 draft. Doug Williams, 1st round, 1978, Super Bowl winning QB. I doubt any of those guys had SEC offers.
Here's my point, or my question. Were guys like this even ranked when the white schools weren't recruiting black players, or weren't recruiting them heavily? Has there really been a demographic shift, or is it just that all of the African American kids in the Old South are being ranked now when they weren't before because the white schools weren't recruiting them? Did Buck Buchanan get any stars back then? I'm pretty sure at worst he would be a four star today, and if Bama recruited him, definitely a five.
Pretty sure rivals.com and scout.com didn't exist in 1963-1978.
 

John C

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Oct 13, 2011
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#28
Pretty sure rivals.com and scout.com didn't exist in 1963-1978.
I should have left the “stars” reference out, although I do remember Parade having an All American high school team as far back as when I was young. Heck, I am even older than you by a year or two, so you know I’m old.
What I was really trying to say was that the talent was always there in the Old South, but the white schools didn’t recruit a large swath of it because of the color barriers; thus the argument about where the talent was and how it’s shifted needs further examination. With #SECBAGMEN, no way does a Buck Buchanan type player end up at Grambling today.
 
Dec 26, 2011
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Stillwater
#29
Tulsa is a considerably smaller pool than the "state of Miami". Walling it off will have a much smaller effect for us than the wall that The U built.
Tulsa produces 5 stars and 4 stars. We don’t get 5 stars EVER and get a few 4 stars a year. Locking up Tulsa would give us a Top 25 class year in year out instead of Top 45.

Locking up Tulsa will be hard not just because of OU but Arkansas. They got two 4 stars from Oklahoma this year and Chad Morris, who is familiar with Tulsa, said recruiting Tulsa is a top priority. More talent in Tulsa than the entire state of Arkansas.

1 hour 15 minutes to OSU. 2 hours to OU. 1 hour 45 minutes to Arkansas. How to we beat the SEC pitch?
 

RxCowboy

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#30
Tulsa produces 5 stars and 4 stars. We don’t get 5 stars EVER and get a few 4 stars a year. Locking up Tulsa would give us a Top 25 class year in year out instead of Top 45.

Locking up Tulsa will be hard not just because of OU but Arkansas. They got two 4 stars from Oklahoma this year and Chad Morris, who is familiar with Tulsa, said recruiting Tulsa is a top priority. More talent in Tulsa than the entire state of Arkansas.

1 hour 15 minutes to OSU. 2 hours to OU. 1 hour 45 minutes to Arkansas. How to we beat the SEC pitch?
https://n.rivals.com/prospect_rankings/rivals250/2019

1 5 star in the 2019 class, Daxton Hill.

https://n.rivals.com/prospect_rankings/rivals250/2018

No 5 stars in the 2018 class. CJ Moore was a 4 star and we got him.

https://n.rivals.com/prospect_rankings/rivals250/2017

No one from Tulsa in the Rivals top 250 in the 2017 class.

https://n.rivals.com/prospect_rankings/rivals250/2016

No one from Tulsa in the Rivals top 250 in the 2016 class.

https://n.rivals.com/prospect_rankings/rivals250/2015

No one from Tulsa in the Rivals top 250 in the 2015 class.

That's one 4-star and one 5-star in a 5 year period. Wowzers, what an amazing pool of talent!

Tulsa population 2016 403,505.

Miami metro population 2017 6,158,824.

There is just no comparison. It ain't the same freaking thing. We could lock up the entirety of Oklahoma and still not draw the amount of talent that locking up Miami would draw.
 
Last edited:
Apr 14, 2008
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Texas
#31
https://n.rivals.com/prospect_rankings/rivals250/2019

1 5 star in the 2019 class, Daxton Hill.

https://n.rivals.com/prospect_rankings/rivals250/2018

No 5 stars in the 2018 class. CJ Moore was a 4 star and we got him.

https://n.rivals.com/prospect_rankings/rivals250/2017

No one from Tulsa in the Rivals top 250 in the 2017 class.

https://n.rivals.com/prospect_rankings/rivals250/2016

No one from Tulsa in the Rivals top 250 in the 2016 class.

https://n.rivals.com/prospect_rankings/rivals250/2015

No one from Tulsa in the Rivals top 205 in the 2015 class.

That's one 4-star and one 5-star in a 5 year period. Wowzers, what an amazing pool of talent!

Tulsa population 2016 403,505.

Miami metro population 2017 6,158,824.

There is just no comparison. It ain't the same freaking thing. We could lock up the entirety of Oklahoma and still not draw the amount of talent that locking up Miami would draw.
^^^ THIS. I'd rather they spend more time recruiting in my city of Houston, which has more people than all of Oklahoma.
 
Nov 6, 2010
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#32
I think east Texas and Louisiana offer us the best opportunity to find those overlooked players that we need to get in order to compete. There is a ton of talent there, and LSU can't take them all. Plus LSU is now casting their eye to Houston and the other parts of Texas with the aTm SEC thing, it causes them to overlook more local talent. I think we're starting to see that too, with Bernard, Dizidare, etc, the coaches know this. Just think of the dudes we mined from East Texas a few years ago, Kendall Hunter, Brandon Pettigrew, and recently Marcus Keyes. If any of these guys had been in the DFW or Houston schools, they would have been 4 star at least and plucked by the blue bloods. Takes more drive time to recruit Carthage, Palestine, Tyler, Henderson, but that's where the hidden gems are.
 

RutherfordFan

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Feb 5, 2008
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#33
Tulsa produces 5 stars and 4 stars. We don’t get 5 stars EVER and get a few 4 stars a year. Locking up Tulsa would give us a Top 25 class year in year out instead of Top 45.

Locking up Tulsa will be hard not just because of OU but Arkansas. They got two 4 stars from Oklahoma this year and Chad Morris, who is familiar with Tulsa, said recruiting Tulsa is a top priority. More talent in Tulsa than the entire state of Arkansas.

1 hour 15 minutes to OSU. 2 hours to OU. 1 hour 45 minutes to Arkansas. How to we beat the SEC pitch?

LOL dude you seriously have zero idea what you're talking about. Tulsa has best player probably in general yes but our top 5 players in whole state typically are around 4 stars true but hardly ever 5. Dax Hill was first 5 star recruit in the state since Gerald McCoy.

People say 5 stars- what they really mean is OSU needs more 4 star recruits. We get a handful of high level 3 stars a few 4 stars each class. Only 25 - 5 stars in the nation each year. Very few of those are given out.
 

RutherfordFan

Federal Marshal
Feb 5, 2008
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Oklahoma City
#34
Tulsa produces 5 stars and 4 stars. We don’t get 5 stars EVER and get a few 4 stars a year. Locking up Tulsa would give us a Top 25 class year in year out instead of Top 45.

Locking up Tulsa will be hard not just because of OU but Arkansas. They got two 4 stars from Oklahoma this year and Chad Morris, who is familiar with Tulsa, said recruiting Tulsa is a top priority. More talent in Tulsa than the entire state of Arkansas.

1 hour 15 minutes to OSU. 2 hours to OU. 1 hour 45 minutes to Arkansas. How to we beat the SEC pitch?
That's because Arkansas has no talent. They might have 3 good football players each year. They have some but very few. It's a numbers game dude. NO population in Arkansas. Sure you'll get stars from Oklahoma and arkansas but not near as many of them. though Oklahoma Football pool is better now.

You have 15 legit D1 players that are good each year. I'm talking Power 5 level recruits. You might have 30 D1 guys but 15 are good enough to go Power 5.
 
Jul 9, 2011
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Yankees Tavern, Carlos Texas
#35
Here is a telling statistic: OU is on to this.

9 of OU's 24 recruits in the 2019 class are from the Southeast states or California. I remember years not far back when virtually their entire recruiting class would be Texas and Oklahoma. We could see half or more of their class be from outside OK/TX in the future.