Liberals Who Cry Roe

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wrenhal

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Aug 11, 2011
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#21
So let's say theft is legal in Arkansas. I go to Arkansas and steal something. Does Oklahoma have the right to bring charges against me? Or say you smoke weed in Colorado recreationally. You don't bring any back. Can Oklahoma put you in jail?
All this mind wrangling libs do to keep the right to kill babies is crazy.

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Don't worry, I'm sure the Republican Georgia Attorney General will fight for the right to prosecute Georgia women who get abortions in other states and come back.

It is a FACT that a number of women, who are strongly opposed to abortion, do get abortions when they find the tables are turned on them and find themselves with unwanted pregnancies. Let's keep abortion legal for them, so they won't have to deal with the medical risks of illegal ones.
Not a fact. You have no way of proving that people would choose otherwise. Yet I've known many women that had the opportunity including ones raped and didn't abort because of their belief in life.
And I'm telling you that abortion was provided by doctors before roe. In clinics and hospitals and was rare. You choose to ignore the truth. There were no coat hanger abortions. There were no massive deaths. It's a lie.

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StillwaterTownie

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#22
Not a fact. You have no way of proving that people would choose otherwise. Yet I've known many women that had the opportunity including ones raped and didn't abort because of their belief in life.
And I'm telling you that abortion was provided by doctors before roe. In clinics and hospitals and was rare. You choose to ignore the truth. There were no coat hanger abortions. There were no massive deaths. It's a lie.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
Yes, it's TRUE that the majority of abortions before 1973 were illegal, most commonly done by doctors. They were called back alley abortions usually done after hours. Women came through the back door to avoid being seen. By the way, I never used the term wire or coat hanger. You did.

Once again, nobody will ever know how common or rare abortions before 1973 were since you don't report what is banned, because it's not supposed to exist. Keep abortion legal, and we'll have numbers we can regard as much more credible than mere estimates or guesses. Fortunately, as it is now we know the rate of abortion is slowly declining, rather than rising. Banning all abortion resulting in no regulations allowed, whatsoever, is morally insane. Oklahoma Baptist and Catholic leaders agree on that.

Yes, it most certainly is a matter of FACT that a number of women opposed to abortion will get them when the tables are turned on them and find themselves unintentionally pregnant. Presented below is abundant proof that I'm right. The high level of crass hypocrisy is utterly stunning!

"We have anti-choice women in for abortions all the time. Many of them are just naive and ignorant until they find themselves with an unwanted pregnancy. Many of them are not malicious. They just haven't given it the proper amount of thought until it completely affects them. They can be judgmental about their friends, family, and other women. Then suddenly they become pregnant. Suddenly they see the truth. That it should only be their own choice. Unfortunately, many also think that somehow they are different than everyone else and they deserve to have an abortion, while no one else does." (Physician, Washington State)"

"I've had several cases over the years in which the anti-abortion patient had rationalized in one way or another that her case was the only exception, but the one that really made an impression was the college senior who was the president of her campus Right-to-Life organization, meaning that she had worked very hard in that organization for several years. As I was completing her procedure, I asked what she planned to do about her high office in the RTL organization. Her response was a wide-eyed, 'You're not going to tell them, are you!?' When assured that I was not, she breathed a sigh of relief, explaining how important that position was to her and how she wouldn't want this to interfere with it." (Physician, Texas)

"I had a patient about ten years ago who traveled up to New York City from South Carolina for an abortion. I asked her why she went such a long way to get the procedure. Her answer was that she was a member of a church group that didn't believe in abortion and she didn't want anyone to know she was having one. She planned to return to the group when she went back to South Carolina." (Physician, New York)

The medical director of an Indianapolis clinic recalled one prospective patient who phoned to ask whether the clinic had a back door. He said no. How, she asked, could she get inside without being seen by fellow picketers outside? Pointing out that two orthopedists practiced with him, the doctor told the woman "she could limp and say she was coming to see the orthopods."

My first encounter with this phenomenon came when I was doing a 2-week follow-up at a family planning clinic. The woman's anti-choice values spoke indirectly through her expression and body language. She told me that she had been offended by the other women in the abortion clinic waiting room because they were using abortion as a form of birth control, but her condom had broken so she had no choice! I had real difficulty not pointing out that she did have a choice, and she had made it! Just like the other women in the waiting room." (Physician, Ontario)

A 21 year old woman and her mother drove three hours to come to their appointment for an abortion. They were surprised to find the clinic a 'nice' place with friendly, personable staff. While going over contraceptive options, they shared that they were Pro-Life and disagreed with abortion, but that the patient could not afford to raise a child right now. Also, she wouldn't need contraception since she wasn't going to have sex until she got married, because of her religious beliefs. Rather than argue with them, I saw this as an opportunity for dialogue, and in the end, my hope was that I had planted a 'healing seed' to help resolve the conflict between their beliefs and their realities." (Physician, Washington State)

From a clinic director in a mid-western state: "One of the most remarkable cases was a woman who came from another part of the state and said she was the Right-to-Life president in her county. 'But,' she said, she 'had become pregnant and had to have an abortion.'"

From a counselor in Virginia: "The patient was disturbed and upset and insisted she couldn't carry the pregnancy to term. She opposed abortion -- and in fact had picketed this very clinic -- but felt the abortion was something she had to do."

"In 1990, in the Boston area, Operation Rescue and other groups were regularly blockading the clinics, and many of us went every Saturday morning for months to help women and staff get in. As a result, we knew many of the 'antis' by face. One morning, a woman who had been a regular 'sidewalk counselor' went into the clinic with a young woman who looked like she was 16-17, and obviously her daughter. When the mother came out about an hour later, I had to go up and ask her if her daughter's situation had caused her to change her mind. 'I don't expect you to understand my daughter's situation!' she angrily replied. The following Saturday, she was back, pleading with women entering the clinic not to 'murder their babies.'" (Clinic escort, Massachusetts)
 
Last edited:

wrenhal

Territorial Marshal
Aug 11, 2011
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#23
Not a fact. You have no way of proving that people would choose otherwise. Yet I've known many women that had the opportunity including ones raped and didn't abort because of their belief in life.
And I'm telling you that abortion was provided by doctors before roe. In clinics and hospitals and was rare. You choose to ignore the truth. There were no coat hanger abortions. There were no massive deaths. It's a lie.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
Yes, it's TRUE that the majority of abortions before 1973 were illegal, most commonly done by doctors. They were called back alley abortions usually done after hours. Women came through the back door to avoid being seen. By the way, I never used the term wire or coat hanger. You did.

Once again, nobody will ever know how common or rare abortions before 1973 were since you don't report what is banned, because it's not supposed to exist. Keep abortion legal, and we'll have numbers we can regard as much more credible than mere estimates or guesses. Fortunately, as it is now we know the rate of abortion is slowly declining, rather than rising. Banning all abortion resulting in no regulations allowed, whatsoever, is morally insane. Oklahoma Baptist and Catholic leaders agree on that.

Yes, it most certainly is a matter of FACT that a number of women opposed to abortion will get them when the tables are turned on them and find themselves unintentionally pregnant. Presented below is abundant proof that I'm right. The high level of crass hypocrisy is utterly stunning!

"We have anti-choice women in for abortions all the time. Many of them are just naive and ignorant until they find themselves with an unwanted pregnancy. Many of them are not malicious. They just haven't given it the proper amount of thought until it completely affects them. They can be judgmental about their friends, family, and other women. Then suddenly they become pregnant. Suddenly they see the truth. That it should only be their own choice. Unfortunately, many also think that somehow they are different than everyone else and they deserve to have an abortion, while no one else does." (Physician, Washington State)"

"I've had several cases over the years in which the anti-abortion patient had rationalized in one way or another that her case was the only exception, but the one that really made an impression was the college senior who was the president of her campus Right-to-Life organization, meaning that she had worked very hard in that organization for several years. As I was completing her procedure, I asked what she planned to do about her high office in the RTL organization. Her response was a wide-eyed, 'You're not going to tell them, are you!?' When assured that I was not, she breathed a sigh of relief, explaining how important that position was to her and how she wouldn't want this to interfere with it." (Physician, Texas)

"I had a patient about ten years ago who traveled up to New York City from South Carolina for an abortion. I asked her why she went such a long way to get the procedure. Her answer was that she was a member of a church group that didn't believe in abortion and she didn't want anyone to know she was having one. She planned to return to the group when she went back to South Carolina." (Physician, New York)

The medical director of an Indianapolis clinic recalled one prospective patient who phoned to ask whether the clinic had a back door. He said no. How, she asked, could she get inside without being seen by fellow picketers outside? Pointing out that two orthopedists practiced with him, the doctor told the woman "she could limp and say she was coming to see the orthopods."

My first encounter with this phenomenon came when I was doing a 2-week follow-up at a family planning clinic. The woman's anti-choice values spoke indirectly through her expression and body language. She told me that she had been offended by the other women in the abortion clinic waiting room because they were using abortion as a form of birth control, but her condom had broken so she had no choice! I had real difficulty not pointing out that she did have a choice, and she had made it! Just like the other women in the waiting room." (Physician, Ontario)

A 21 year old woman and her mother drove three hours to come to their appointment for an abortion. They were surprised to find the clinic a 'nice' place with friendly, personable staff. While going over contraceptive options, they shared that they were Pro-Life and disagreed with abortion, but that the patient could not afford to raise a child right now. Also, she wouldn't need contraception since she wasn't going to have sex until she got married, because of her religious beliefs. Rather than argue with them, I saw this as an opportunity for dialogue, and in the end, my hope was that I had planted a 'healing seed' to help resolve the conflict between their beliefs and their realities." (Physician, Washington State)

From a clinic director in a mid-western state: "One of the most remarkable cases was a woman who came from another part of the state and said she was the Right-to-Life president in her county. 'But,' she said, she 'had become pregnant and had to have an abortion.'"

From a counselor in Virginia: "The patient was disturbed and upset and insisted she couldn't carry the pregnancy to term. She opposed abortion -- and in fact had picketed this very clinic -- but felt the abortion was something she had to do."

"In 1990, in the Boston area, Operation Rescue and other groups were regularly blockading the clinics, and many of us went every Saturday morning for months to help women and staff get in. As a result, we knew many of the 'antis' by face. One morning, a woman who had been a regular 'sidewalk counselor' went into the clinic with a young woman who looked like she was 16-17, and obviously her daughter. When the mother came out about an hour later, I had to go up and ask her if her daughter's situation had caused her to change her mind. 'I don't expect you to understand my daughter's situation!' she angrily replied. The following Saturday, she was back, pleading with women entering the clinic not to 'murder their babies.'" (Clinic escort, Massachusetts)
I personally know people in these situations that choose life. My wife and I personally chose for several of our children that we were counseled to have abortions on. Amazingly only one truly had something wrong with her. And we chose life for her. Your stories are outliers.

How can you say we know numbers and such. There are several States, including California (one of the largest abortion States), do not require to report numbers. Even when pro life people just try to get true numbers reported (especially of 3rd trimester abortions), or proper health clinic regulations for safety, liberals scream. Many states don't even have regular inspections or require the clinics to meet the same health codes as a normal doctor's office. But yeah sure, this is about women's health.
There is a group that tries to track how many times clinics have to call ambulances to pick up women because of complications, and liberals are trying to sue them so they aren't allowed to report the numbers.
So yeah, tell me all about that free floor6 of information just because it's legal.

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Aug 16, 2012
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#24
Yes, it's TRUE that the majority of abortions before 1973 were illegal, most commonly done by doctors. They were called back alley abortions usually done after hours. Women came through the back door to avoid being seen. By the way, I never used the term wire or coat hanger. You did.

Once again, nobody will ever know how common or rare abortions before 1973 were since you don't report what is banned, because it's not supposed to exist. Keep abortion legal, and we'll have numbers we can regard as much more credible than mere estimates or guesses. Fortunately, as it is now we know the rate of abortion is slowly declining, rather than rising. Banning all abortion resulting in no regulations allowed, whatsoever, is morally insane. Oklahoma Baptist and Catholic leaders agree on that.

Yes, it most certainly is a matter of FACT that a number of women opposed to abortion will get them when the tables are turned on them and find themselves unintentionally pregnant. Presented below is abundant proof that I'm right. The high level of crass hypocrisy is utterly stunning!

"We have anti-choice women in for abortions all the time. Many of them are just naive and ignorant until they find themselves with an unwanted pregnancy. Many of them are not malicious. They just haven't given it the proper amount of thought until it completely affects them. They can be judgmental about their friends, family, and other women. Then suddenly they become pregnant. Suddenly they see the truth. That it should only be their own choice. Unfortunately, many also think that somehow they are different than everyone else and they deserve to have an abortion, while no one else does." (Physician, Washington State)"

"I've had several cases over the years in which the anti-abortion patient had rationalized in one way or another that her case was the only exception, but the one that really made an impression was the college senior who was the president of her campus Right-to-Life organization, meaning that she had worked very hard in that organization for several years. As I was completing her procedure, I asked what she planned to do about her high office in the RTL organization. Her response was a wide-eyed, 'You're not going to tell them, are you!?' When assured that I was not, she breathed a sigh of relief, explaining how important that position was to her and how she wouldn't want this to interfere with it." (Physician, Texas)

"I had a patient about ten years ago who traveled up to New York City from South Carolina for an abortion. I asked her why she went such a long way to get the procedure. Her answer was that she was a member of a church group that didn't believe in abortion and she didn't want anyone to know she was having one. She planned to return to the group when she went back to South Carolina." (Physician, New York)

The medical director of an Indianapolis clinic recalled one prospective patient who phoned to ask whether the clinic had a back door. He said no. How, she asked, could she get inside without being seen by fellow picketers outside? Pointing out that two orthopedists practiced with him, the doctor told the woman "she could limp and say she was coming to see the orthopods."

My first encounter with this phenomenon came when I was doing a 2-week follow-up at a family planning clinic. The woman's anti-choice values spoke indirectly through her expression and body language. She told me that she had been offended by the other women in the abortion clinic waiting room because they were using abortion as a form of birth control, but her condom had broken so she had no choice! I had real difficulty not pointing out that she did have a choice, and she had made it! Just like the other women in the waiting room." (Physician, Ontario)

A 21 year old woman and her mother drove three hours to come to their appointment for an abortion. They were surprised to find the clinic a 'nice' place with friendly, personable staff. While going over contraceptive options, they shared that they were Pro-Life and disagreed with abortion, but that the patient could not afford to raise a child right now. Also, she wouldn't need contraception since she wasn't going to have sex until she got married, because of her religious beliefs. Rather than argue with them, I saw this as an opportunity for dialogue, and in the end, my hope was that I had planted a 'healing seed' to help resolve the conflict between their beliefs and their realities." (Physician, Washington State)

From a clinic director in a mid-western state: "One of the most remarkable cases was a woman who came from another part of the state and said she was the Right-to-Life president in her county. 'But,' she said, she 'had become pregnant and had to have an abortion.'"

From a counselor in Virginia: "The patient was disturbed and upset and insisted she couldn't carry the pregnancy to term. She opposed abortion -- and in fact had picketed this very clinic -- but felt the abortion was something she had to do."

"In 1990, in the Boston area, Operation Rescue and other groups were regularly blockading the clinics, and many of us went every Saturday morning for months to help women and staff get in. As a result, we knew many of the 'antis' by face. One morning, a woman who had been a regular 'sidewalk counselor' went into the clinic with a young woman who looked like she was 16-17, and obviously her daughter. When the mother came out about an hour later, I had to go up and ask her if her daughter's situation had caused her to change her mind. 'I don't expect you to understand my daughter's situation!' she angrily replied. The following Saturday, she was back, pleading with women entering the clinic not to 'murder their babies.'" (Clinic escort, Massachusetts)
You need to look up Kermit Gosnell. He had abortion clinics before RvW, even televising several using an insane electro-mechanical device. Do not think it was near as surreptitious as you claim by the close of the 60s
 

steross

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#25
And I'm telling you that abortion was provided by doctors before roe. In clinics and hospitals and was rare. You choose to ignore the truth. There were no coat hanger abortions. There were no massive deaths. It's a lie.

Screen Shot 2019-05-18 at 12.10.45 PM.png
 

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steross

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#26
I personally know people in these situations that choose life. My wife and I personally chose for several of our children that we were counseled to have abortions on. Amazingly only one truly had something wrong with her. And we chose life for her. Your stories are outliers.

How can you say we know numbers and such. There are several States, including California (one of the largest abortion States), do not require to report numbers. Even when pro life people just try to get true numbers reported (especially of 3rd trimester abortions), or proper health clinic regulations for safety, liberals scream. Many states don't even have regular inspections or require the clinics to meet the same health codes as a normal doctor's office. But yeah sure, this is about women's health.
There is a group that tries to track how many times clinics have to call ambulances to pick up women because of complications, and liberals are trying to sue them so they aren't allowed to report the numbers.
So yeah, tell me all about that free floor6 of information just because it's legal.

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What do you mean don't require clinics to meet the health codes of a regular clinic? Are you saying that there are state laws that have health codes for all medical clinics that specifically exclude clinics where abortions are provided and state that those clinics are not required to meet those codes? Please show those laws.

And, abortion is a bad thing. I wish they never happened. But, attempts to call legal abortion in the US unsafe are not reality. There are far fewer complications than childbirth. There just are. It is an unreasonable position to claim complication risk as a reason not to have an abortion when the other option, childbirth, has a far higher risk.

The pregnancy-associated mortality rate among women who delivered live neonates was 8.8 deaths per 100,000 live births. The mortality rate related to induced abortion was 0.6 deaths per 100,000 abortions. In the one recent comparative study of pregnancy morbidity in the United States, pregnancy-related complications were more common with childbirth than with abortion.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22270271
 

wrenhal

Territorial Marshal
Aug 11, 2011
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#27
I personally know people in these situations that choose life. My wife and I personally chose for several of our children that we were counseled to have abortions on. Amazingly only one truly had something wrong with her. And we chose life for her. Your stories are outliers.

How can you say we know numbers and such. There are several States, including California (one of the largest abortion States), do not require to report numbers. Even when pro life people just try to get true numbers reported (especially of 3rd trimester abortions), or proper health clinic regulations for safety, liberals scream. Many states don't even have regular inspections or require the clinics to meet the same health codes as a normal doctor's office. But yeah sure, this is about women's health.
There is a group that tries to track how many times clinics have to call ambulances to pick up women because of complications, and liberals are trying to sue them so they aren't allowed to report the numbers.
So yeah, tell me all about that free floor6 of information just because it's legal.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
What do you mean don't require clinics to meet the health codes of a regular clinic? Are you saying that there are state laws that have health codes for all medical clinics that specifically exclude clinics where abortions are provided and state that those clinics are not required to meet those codes? Please show those laws.

And, abortion is a bad thing. I wish they never happened. But, attempts to call legal abortion in the US unsafe are not reality. There are far fewer complications than childbirth. There just are. It is an unreasonable position to claim complication risk as a reason not to have an abortion when the other option, childbirth, has a far higher risk.

The pregnancy-associated mortality rate among women who delivered live neonates was 8.8 deaths per 100,000 live births. The mortality rate related to induced abortion was 0.6 deaths per 100,000 abortions. In the one recent comparative study of pregnancy morbidity in the United States, pregnancy-related complications were more common with childbirth than with abortion.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22270271
It's unsafe 100% of the time for the baby. But there have been bills to make abortion clinics meet outpatient surgical regulations and they are fought tooth and nail by liberals that don't want that restriction.

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wrenhal

Territorial Marshal
Aug 11, 2011
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#28
And I'm telling you that abortion was provided by doctors before roe. In clinics and hospitals and was rare. You choose to ignore the truth. There were no coat hanger abortions. There were no massive deaths. It's a lie.

View attachment 70302
If the mothers life was in danger there was no ban. Abortions were done in the hospital. Very rare. And to this day abortion advocates still constantly state that even the year before roe, thousands of women died from "illegal" abortions.
They only lie.
https://www.liveaction.org/news/lying-planned-parenthood-debunked-abortion/

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steross

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#29
It's unsafe 100% of the time for the baby. But there have been bills to make abortion clinics meet outpatient surgical regulations and they are fought tooth and nail by liberals that don't want that restriction.

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That line is so overused and irrelevant to the topic. It is pulled out when hyperbole and propaganda are beaten by data.

And again, if there are laws that pertain to procedures that are like abortion, they would pertain to abortion. The only time that laws are fought tooth and nail is when legislators try to put laws in that restrict abortion clinics but not clinics that do similar procedures. Again, if you have actual evidence otherwise, please show me.
 

steross

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#30
If the mothers life was in danger there was no ban. Abortions were done in the hospital. Very rare. And to this day abortion advocates still constantly state that even the year before roe, thousands of women died from "illegal" abortions.
They only lie.
https://www.liveaction.org/news/lying-planned-parenthood-debunked-abortion/

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I give you actual data from JAMA regarding abortion death rates before R v W and you link me to "liveaction" Bahahaha. No, not going to look at that nonsense any more than you would look at a link to NARAL.

So, for example, 251 women died in 1960. How many dead women per year are you OK with?
 

wrenhal

Territorial Marshal
Aug 11, 2011
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#31
If the mothers life was in danger there was no ban. Abortions were done in the hospital. Very rare. And to this day abortion advocates still constantly state that even the year before roe, thousands of women died from "illegal" abortions.
They only lie.
https://www.liveaction.org/news/lying-planned-parenthood-debunked-abortion/

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
I give you actual data from JAMA regarding abortion death rates before R v W and you link me to "liveaction" Bahahaha. No, not going to look at that nonsense any more than you would look at a link to NARAL.

So, for example, 251 women died in 1960. How many dead women per year are you OK with?
No, you don't understand my comment. Even to this day, if you read that web page I sent, the people with NARAL all try to state that there were thousands of deaths every year before roe including the year before roe. It's a lie. That's one of their tactics that they use to try to scare people into supporting abortion.

Abortion is bad, I agree. I want it to be rare or non-existent. But abortion advocates encourage it to be available for any reason, unrestricted.

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Last edited:

steross

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#32
No, you don't understand my comment. Even to this day, if you read that web page I sent, the people with NARAL all try to state that there were thousands of deaths every year before roe including the year before roe. It's a lie. That's one of their tactics that they use to try to scare people into supporting abortion.

Abortion is bad, I agree. I want it to be rare or non-existent. But abortion advocates encourage it to be available for any reason, unrestricted.

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You wrote, "there were no coathanger abortions." I posted data from a non-partisan source that show higher rates of abortion-related death prior to the law change and showed that most of those were due to illegal abortions. I'm not trying to scare anyone. You just made untrue statements to support your position. I'm not defending NARAL, but taking their propaganda that isn't true and adding your own untrue propaganda doesn't really help anything.

Abortion has never been non-existent and never will be. I want it to be as rare as possible. I also want that to happen without endangering women. We disagree on how best to get there.
 
Jul 20, 2018
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#33
What do you mean don't require clinics to meet the health codes of a regular clinic? Are you saying that there are state laws that have health codes for all medical clinics that specifically exclude clinics where abortions are provided and state that those clinics are not required to meet those codes? Please show those laws.

And, abortion is a bad thing. I wish they never happened. But, attempts to call legal abortion in the US unsafe are not reality. There are far fewer complications than childbirth. There just are. It is an unreasonable position to claim complication risk as a reason not to have an abortion when the other option, childbirth, has a far higher risk.

The pregnancy-associated mortality rate among women who delivered live neonates was 8.8 deaths per 100,000 live births. The mortality rate related to induced abortion was 0.6 deaths per 100,000 abortions. In the one recent comparative study of pregnancy morbidity in the United States, pregnancy-related complications were more common with childbirth than with abortion.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22270271
Here you go: https://www.cnn.com/2016/06/27/politics/supreme-court-abortion-texas/index.html

According to the 10th amendment to the constitution, states should be allowed to establish laws for medical services as they choose. Medical services are enumerated in the constitution.
 
Jul 20, 2018
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#34
You wrote, "there were no coathanger abortions." I posted data from a non-partisan source that show higher rates of abortion-related death prior to the law change and showed that most of those were due to illegal abortions. I'm not trying to scare anyone. You just made untrue statements to support your position. I'm not defending NARAL, but taking their propaganda that isn't true and adding your own untrue propaganda doesn't really help anything.

Abortion has never been non-existent and never will be. I want it to be as rare as possible. I also want that to happen without endangering women. We disagree on how best to get there.
You could post that same graph for just about every medical procedure from the 40's to today. Means nothing in the abortion debate.
 

steross

Bookface/Instagran legend
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Mar 31, 2004
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#35
Here you go: https://www.cnn.com/2016/06/27/politics/supreme-court-abortion-texas/index.html

According to the 10th amendment to the constitution, states should be allowed to establish laws for medical services as they choose. Medical services are enumerated in the constitution.
Those laws would have forced abortion clinics to follow policies far beyond what clinics that provide similar levels of service provided. There was no medical need for those laws other than the restriction of abortion. When two laws collide, it goes to the courts.

Similarly, if Texas decided that hospitals no longer would treat Asian patients, they could not claim that it superseded racial bias laws.
 
Jul 20, 2018
1,547
239
143
77539
#38
Those laws would have forced abortion clinics to follow policies far beyond what clinics that provide similar levels of service provided. There was no medical need for those laws other than the restriction of abortion. When two laws collide, it goes to the courts.

Similarly, if Texas decided that hospitals no longer would treat Asian patients, they could not claim that it superseded racial bias laws.
This has nothing to do with race. It's pretty simple. A state has the right to regulate the hospital industry. All states do so. Are you going to suggest that there are NO onerous regulations in the hospital industry?
 

wrenhal

Territorial Marshal
Aug 11, 2011
7,606
3,655
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49
#39
No, you don't understand my comment. Even to this day, if you read that web page I sent, the people with NARAL all try to state that there were thousands of deaths every year before roe including the year before roe. It's a lie. That's one of their tactics that they use to try to scare people into supporting abortion.

Abortion is bad, I agree. I want it to be rare or non-existent. But abortion advocates encourage it to be available for any reason, unrestricted.

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You wrote, "there were no coathanger abortions." I posted data from a non-partisan source that show higher rates of abortion-related death prior to the law change and showed that most of those were due to illegal abortions. I'm not trying to scare anyone. You just made untrue statements to support your position. I'm not defending NARAL, but taking their propaganda that isn't true and adding your own untrue propaganda doesn't really help anything.

Abortion has never been non-existent and never will be. I want it to be as rare as possible. I also want that to happen without endangering women. We disagree on how best to get there.
I'm not saying there weren't illegal abortions but they weren't performed in a back alley with coat hangers, they were performed by doctors. That's what I mean by the coat hanger lie. And the rates of deaths began dropping before roe v Wade not after due to antibiotics and other factors that slowed the rate of deaths among all type of surgical procedures.

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steross

Bookface/Instagran legend
A/V Subscriber
Mar 31, 2004
26,454
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oklahoma city
#40
This has nothing to do with race. It's pretty simple. A state has the right to regulate the hospital industry. All states do so. Are you going to suggest that there are NO onerous regulations in the hospital industry?
Race was an example. No, you cannot claim that you get to regulate the hospital industry in a way that breaks other laws. I do not know of any hospital industry regulations that would pick out one type of procedure and force that procedure to meet standards that would not be required for similar level procedures. If they required every OMFS taking out wisdom teeth or every Ob/gyn doing a uterine ablation to have the same requirements then they would have a better point (and a huge fight). Instead, they chose one procedure with obvious political reasons and absolutely no medical justification and tried to overregulate it with big government bullying (as conservatives like to do just as much as liberals). Fortunately, freedom prevailed and big government overreach was not allowed.