Let's put away the torches and pitchforks!

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Sep 23, 2018
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I want to give a little anecdote of when my fandom was pretty much at an all-time high:

Everyone remember when all of the Sandusky s*** at Penn State dropped? I just happened to be visiting a best friend and his wife, both PSU grads, best friend being from Tulsa. This was in Philly.

The weekend that followed all of the allegations that had arisen, PSU played...Northwestern? Don't remember exactly. But holy crap, it was *SOMBER*. We went to a bar in Olde City, a cool part of Philly, and they had the PSU game on all TVs. I asked if they could just change *one* TV, even in a corner where nobody was watching, to the OSU game (we played Texas Tech that day). They wouldn't change any, because dickheads and all...

So I told my friend and his parents, who came to visit, that I'd just simply go somewhere else close, and they could stick around at the current venue and watch the PSU game. They were cool and said, "no, no, we should be able to watch both", so we went to another place that accommodated us and turned out to be a good choice.

We played Texas Tech that day. This was the 2011 season. We beat Tech 66-6. Now, for a little background, I actually *dislike* Texas Tech more than I do OU. I was so ecstatic to see us demolish them, not just because it was Tech, but because we actually beat a team without leaving much question. The week previous, we beat KSU by one touchdown, at home. I remember how nerve-racking that was. Then, of course, the next weekend would be the doomed Iowa State game. But at that very moment, I thought, damn, we can be just as good as anybody else and beat teams AND not be afraid of potentially crapping it away in the end.

That's what I want us to get to. I want to have those games where we hold a team to 20 points or less, *consistently*. I thought that game would be a "corner-turner" for us, but it ended not being that. Maybe I'm stuck on the idea of us being a "Blue Blood", I don't know. I appreciate the "Demolition" games more than the close ones, why? Less stressful. More assuring.
 
Feb 18, 2009
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yeah it's because of their fans demanding it...:derp::derp::derp::derp::derp::derp::derp::derp::derp::derp:
uh.....They do demand it. Not sure what point you were attempting to make.

They expect to win the conference, be in the playoffs and compete for championships. That's why they meltdown and go into mass depression any time they lose a game. We just roll with it because we're far more used to it. I rarely hear an ou fan say "yeah but remember how bad it USED to be. We should just be thankful now and accept it."

Not saying their 100% right, in fact I can't stand them. But if that's what it takes to make seasons like 2011 happen more than once every 30-40 years, I am all for it.
 
Feb 18, 2009
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I am going on here to say the OFFENSE is a MAJOR problem in our lack of success. Our offense scores a bunch of points and pads stats but the numbers are deceiving because half the time we are doing it playing catch-up when other teams defenses know they have the lead.

OCWTF/FUMY has no consistency in his playcalling and he doesn’t have the right players to run the Mason Rudolph offense. You can’t chunk it deep half the time with corndog. He just can’t do it so we see drives that don’t work. Also, the offensive line is BAD so let’s throw more deep passes? Are you freaking kidding me? Why can’t we throw more screen passes 5 yards down field? Why can’t the cowboy backs get the ball more?

It’s all because gundy and FUMY can’t figure out that corndog needs high percentage plays not deep passes to open the offense. I guarantee that our offense would not look as bad if we didn’t have long developing plays.
You found a way around my quarter......very clever of you.
 

Rack

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Oct 13, 2004
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uh.....They do demand it. Not sure what point you were attempting to make.

They expect to win the conference, be in the playoffs and compete for championships. That's why they meltdown and go into mass depression any time they lose a game. We just roll with it because we're far more used to it. I rarely hear an ou fan say "yeah but remember how bad it USED to be. We should just be thankful now and accept it."

Not saying their 100% right, in fact I can't stand them. But if that's what it takes to make seasons like 2011 happen more than once every 30-40 years, I am all for it.
It has very little to do with what their "fans" expect and demand and very much to do with money...You make an investment and it pays off down the line a few years. Stadium was completed in 2009, we win a championship in 2011 and have a very good year in 2010. Investment...return. OU makes continued investment in terms of money and improvements to their program. On average ou spends in top 13 on their football program annually...we don't. Dollars and cents, facility improvements and excitement, Return on Investment (ROI).

We, fans, didn't expect and demand 2011, it happened due to return on investment

We fall around #42 in investment and #25 in return. OU is about #13 in investment and #11 in return. We are both getting good ROI, in fact we are getting a better ROI...just need more I (investment).

2006 - 2015 (sbnation 3/24/16)
Oklahoma avg finish 11.2 spending 13.22 dif 2
Oklahoma State avg finish 25.1 spending 41.6 dif 16.5
 
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Rack

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Oct 13, 2004
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Washington state recruits are terrible. He is making caviar out of trash. OSU has the #12 offense with better players and playing terrible teams. When you are down 2 scores, it’s easier for our offenseto move on the opponents defense. We could have the #12 offense and still have a losing season because the stats don’t show the terrible field position Yurchich puts our defense in.
Their schedule is no better than ours, in fact it's worse. Certainly they might not have as good of players...Btw, what's Leach, the pirates, record vs Gundy? Fyi, you know I already know or I wouldn't ask you. ;)
 

Mfa6677

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Jan 15, 2016
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No, we are a legit football program and I don't think it's a result of cheating. I also think Gundy's teams are a LOT more fun to watch than Fords basketball teams. Does he need to make some changes? Sure.

Additionally regarding cheating, I would say that most, if not all, blue blood programs can be traced back to original cheating regarding money being poured into their football programs at some point by, in the case of ou, local businesses (car dealers) and State governments seeking to create a revenue / pride factor in their otherwise underperforming states. Certainly the factors that created the Blue Bloods are a thing of the past, but once a Blue Blood is created systems are still changed (intentionally or otherwise) to keep them in power because big $ media sees them as their financial gravy train, and indeed they are because of the numbers of fans they have traditionally. Bandwagon fans are indeed a part of success due to sheer numbers of viewers and ticket purchasers that create and sustain a college football economy.

The current playoff system, IMHO, is also designed to (intentionally or not), and does protect the blue bloods and continues to elevate their status as does the existence of the Power 5 conferences (that's why they removed the computers and talk about the stupid "eye test"). It's VERY hard to break into Blue Blood status, especially if the revenue deck is stacked against you (number of customers). The only way we have even come close is Boone Pickens money and his interest in making us one. When that ends or reaches it's "ceiling" as I believe we have seen, it's going to be dependent on building a larger fan base that creates a bigger economy. Otherwise we end up with the problem of basketball which was an attempt to create an economy of scale without the scale (i.e. charge fewer people more money). This is where we run into problems as people bail and we don't have the scale to cover up for fan loss.

This is all just my opinion...who cares. bottom line, we all want improvement and we all want to win championships, just some of us think we have had it pretty good and don't want to go back to when we didn't have that....we have seen our fan base go from being elated to win a few games if we made any bowl to being unhappy with anything less than 10 win seasons. It's an interesting study if nothing else.
You guys act like we didn’t get caught cheating like crazy in the 80’s as well.......
 
Apr 2, 2008
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Their schedule is no better than ours, in fact it's worse. Certainly they might not have as good of players...Btw, what's Leach, the pirates, record vs Gundy? Fyi, you know I already know or I wouldn't ask you. ;)
Leach is 6-4 against gundy but he was also at Oklahoma when they beat us in 2000 as of OC. He is a better offensive coordinator then Gundy. There is no question in my mind. Hell, holgerson came to Stillwater drunk sleeping in until 10:00 after partying and put a better offense on the field than Gundy.
 

Rack

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You guys act like we didn’t get caught cheating like crazy in the 80’s as well.......
Did I say we were as pure as the windblown snow? My point was that persistent semi pro ball built ou into a power over the 50's - 80's. We didn't cheat until the 80's under Jimmy Johnson, then he left and went to Miami with us holding the probationary "bag." Still can't stand JJ for that.

I haven't seen the ou cheating graphic in a long time...anyone have that?
 

Rack

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Oct 13, 2004
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Leach is 6-4 against gundy but he was also at Oklahoma when they beat us in 2000 as of OC. He is a better offensive coordinator then Gundy. There is no question in my mind. Hell, holgerson came to Stillwater drunk sleeping in until 10:00 after partying and put a better offense on the field than Gundy.
You know very well that Gundy has a winning record vs Leach when it was head coach vs head coach. He's 2-3 vs Gundy...you just don't want to admit it. Gundy also has a better record overall than Leach as head coach. Leach is .645 and Gundy is .682. Gundy has a conference title outright compared to a south division title. Leach best ever team ended the season ranked 12th nationally, Gundy has had 4 teams ranked 14th or better and had a team ranked 3rd to end the year. Leach has had ONE team finish with over 10 wins...Gundy has had SEVEN. IMHO, Gundy is a far better coach...and the facts suggest that it's not really that close.
 
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Mfa6677

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Did I say we were as pure as the windblown snow? My point was that persistent semi pro ball built ou into a power over the 50's - 80's. We didn't cheat until the 80's under Jimmy Johnson, then he left and went to Miami with us holding the probationary "bag." Still can't stand JJ for that.

I haven't seen the ou cheating graphic in a long time...anyone have that?
If you think we only cheated during Jimmy Johnson’s time then bless your heart
 
Jun 23, 2005
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Did I say we were as pure as the windblown snow? My point was that persistent semi pro ball built ou into a power over the 50's - 80's. We didn't cheat until the 80's under Jimmy Johnson, then he left and went to Miami with us holding the probationary "bag." Still can't stand JJ for that.

I haven't seen the ou cheating graphic in a long time...anyone have that?
OSU was put on probation in the 1970’s when Jim Stanley was the coach, and in 1989 when Pat Jones was the coach. FWIW
 

Rack

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OSU was put on probation in the 1970’s when Jim Stanley was the coach, and in 1989 when Pat Jones was the coach. FWIW
My point here is not that we haven't attempted to play catch up...it's the reason we felt it necessary.

Still can't find the graphic but I found this on this site from 2010 so I think it's lacking some of the more recent stuff, it was posted by @OSUFan

"History of Oklahoma NCAA Major Violations (through 2010)

What's the history of NCAA violations involving the University of Oklahoma football team? This includes only major violations (as listed by the NCAA) for football team. The NCAA list six major infractions by the Oklahoma football team dating back to January 1956.

January 11, 1956 - NCAA found University of Oklahoma football team violated improper transportation; extra benefits; improper recruiting inducements.

Result: 1 year Probation

January 11, 1960 - NCAA found University of Oklahoma football team violated improper financial aid; improper recruiting inducements; outside fund; lack of institutional control.

Result: 1 year Probation, 1 year post season ban, 1 year television ban

September 20, 1973 - NCAA found University of Oklahoma football team violated extra benefits; including improper recruiting inducements; lodging, publicity and transportation; tryouts; excessive number of official visits; excessive time for official visits; in addition to academic fraud; eligibility; unethical conduct.

Result: 2 year Probation, 2 year post season ban, 2 year television ban, one assistant football coach not allowed to recruit.

November 11, 1980 - NCAA found University of Oklahoma football team violated improper financial aid; improper recruiting contacts, entertainment and transportation.

Result: Publicly reprimand.

December 19, 1988 - NCAA found University of Oklahoma football team violated improper transportation; extra benefits; complimentary tickets; improper recruiting contacts, employment, entertainment, inducements and transportation; unethical conduct; outside fund; lack of institutional control; certification of compliance.

Result: 3 years probation; 1 year television ban; 3 years probation; Maximum of 18 initial grants for 1989-90 and 1990-91 football season. maximum of eight coaches may recruit off campus for 1989-90; OU limited to maximum of 50 official visits for 1988-89 and 1989-90; The University of Oklahoma files annual reports regarding compliance programs; University of Oklahoma must show cause why more penalties should not be imposed if institution does not remove two assistant coaches and recruiting coordinator from recruiting and disassociate one representative.

And then the latest July 11, 2007. The NCAA Division I Committee on Infractions has penalized the University of Oklahoma for major violations in its football program."

Source: NCAA
 
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wreck

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Jun 3, 2006
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From today's The Athletic:

Dear Faux Pelini: I’m upset with Mike Gundy




By Faux Pelini 2h ago

5


Editor’s note: During the college football season @FauxPelini answers your football and life questions. These are actual questions from actual readers seeking advice. Send yours to DearFaux@gmail.com.
Dear Faux Pelini,
I’m upset with Mike Gundy. After several key Oklahoma State players left for the NFL a rebuild seemed inevitable, so I shifted my focus to tailgating with friends. The problem is Gundy wants to keep playing a senior instead of a freshman at QB even though we are out of contention. This is kind of annoying.
Ben M.

Hey Ben,
I get it, losing seasons suck.
It’s fine to be frustrated during a year like this. Good, even. Frustrated fans push a program to get better.
But you are losing track of your place in the OSU universe. Your job as a fan is to support, enjoy and endure. That’s it.
Winning is easy, losing is not. When things turn bad for Oklahoma State for a year or two, you’re entitled to deal with the games however you want. You’ve earned that right. Watch them, skip them, tailgate and go home, whatever. This year, it’s your job to support and endure however you choose to do so.
Gundy has a different role. His job is to maximize Oklahoma State’s winning, both in the short term and long term. If he believes the team is better off playing a senior instead of a freshman in 2018, trust that he has his reasons. Maybe he’s sending a message to his players and recruits; maybe he’s keeping a promise you don’t know about; maybe the freshman isn’t ready. You don’t have the information Gundy has, because coaching is not your role in the OSU ecosystem.
By the way, what about this senior QB? It’s not all his fault that the losing is happening. He worked for four years to get to this point, and now he’s supposed to sit down and let an 18-year-old play because Ben in Tailgate Lot #5 is frustrated?
Do your job, Ben, and let Gundy do his. You’d be annoyed if Gundy called you out for putting too much celery in your Bloody Mary, so don’t tell him who he should play at quarterback. He knows his team from the inside, you know it from the outside.
 
Aug 22, 2006
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Thanks for posting this, I guess everything is great and we should just shut up and take it, and like it. Thank god i have someone to tell me what I should do because I would hate to have to think for myself and question a coach that has made less than desirable coaching decisions in regard to QB.

Tell me about the rabbits again
 
Nov 16, 2013
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From today's The Athletic:

Dear Faux Pelini: I’m upset with Mike Gundy




By Faux Pelini 2h ago

5


Editor’s note: During the college football season @FauxPelini answers your football and life questions. These are actual questions from actual readers seeking advice. Send yours to DearFaux@gmail.com.
Dear Faux Pelini,
I’m upset with Mike Gundy. After several key Oklahoma State players left for the NFL a rebuild seemed inevitable, so I shifted my focus to tailgating with friends. The problem is Gundy wants to keep playing a senior instead of a freshman at QB even though we are out of contention. This is kind of annoying.
Ben M.

Hey Ben,
I get it, losing seasons suck.
It’s fine to be frustrated during a year like this. Good, even. Frustrated fans push a program to get better.
But you are losing track of your place in the OSU universe. Your job as a fan is to support, enjoy and endure. That’s it.
Winning is easy, losing is not. When things turn bad for Oklahoma State for a year or two, you’re entitled to deal with the games however you want. You’ve earned that right. Watch them, skip them, tailgate and go home, whatever. This year, it’s your job to support and endure however you choose to do so.
Gundy has a different role. His job is to maximize Oklahoma State’s winning, both in the short term and long term. If he believes the team is better off playing a senior instead of a freshman in 2018, trust that he has his reasons. Maybe he’s sending a message to his players and recruits; maybe he’s keeping a promise you don’t know about; maybe the freshman isn’t ready. You don’t have the information Gundy has, because coaching is not your role in the OSU ecosystem.
By the way, what about this senior QB? It’s not all his fault that the losing is happening. He worked for four years to get to this point, and now he’s supposed to sit down and let an 18-year-old play because Ben in Tailgate Lot #5 is frustrated?
Do your job, Ben, and let Gundy do his. You’d be annoyed if Gundy called you out for putting too much celery in your Bloody Mary, so don’t tell him who he should play at quarterback. He knows his team from the inside, you know it from the outside.
Dear Faux Pelini,

Does that mean the fb program should drop their prices during this rebuilding program when we are not allowed to question the Mullet?