Let's put away the torches and pitchforks!

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Cro

Sheriff
Apr 6, 2010
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#65
I’m just saying you are very combative if anything is negatively said about Gundy.
not true at all......... i'm as disappointed as anyone w/ the season has played out so far. i've also said on here that I would like to see another QB get snaps. I do not agree w/ everything HCMG does or even how he acts sometimes, but I also realize that he is our best bet of continuing the winning culture that he has established. The season seems to be in the shitter, no doubt, but I don't believe, as some on here do, that the end is near for our football program.
 

Rack

Federal Marshal
Oct 13, 2004
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#66
But Rack, you are implying that some of us are "fairweather fans". Let me explain something about this pathetic notion that "fairweather fans" aren't *real* fans:

The athletic department, and more specifically, the football program, are tasked with putting a good product on the field. If that product does not meet certain standards or expectations, then you do not show up, and you do not support the program in any other way besides attendance at games. I actually believe "fairweather" fans are BETTER fans. You know why? Because they don't settle for inferior crap. We constantly expect improvement, tweaks here and there to put out a *great* final product. When people do not show up to games, that is our way of protest. Sort of the free market idea.

Let's be realistic, here. I know that you want to talk about supporting the players, because they're young men, in the end, and supposedly have fragile egos. But football is the biggest (by far) money-making enterprise of the university (that I'm aware of). You have to treat it as somewhat of a business endeavor. OSU football, right now, is in the same position Cadillac was, right before they released the CTS.
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Yes, you can vote with your feet...and here's the perfect hat to do it with. ;-)
 

cowboyethics344

Federal Marshal
Apr 2, 2008
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#68
not true at all......... i'm as disappointed as anyone w/ the season has played out so far. i've also said on here that I would like to see another QB get snaps. I do not agree w/ everything HCMG does or even how he acts sometimes, but I also realize that he is our best bet of continuing the winning culture that he has established. The season seems to be in the shitter, no doubt, but I don't believe, as some on here do, that the end is near for our football program.
I am not for firing Gundy but I wish he would be more open to change. I think that’s my biggest gripe with him. He would rather us keep beating our heads against the wall instead of try something new. I feel like he gets so determined there is only one way to get to an answer that creativity goes out the door. I don’t think the program is over but we will continue to see average results if we don’t try some new ideas.
 
Sep 23, 2018
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#69
not true at all......... i'm as disappointed as anyone w/ the season has played out so far. i've also said on here that I would like to see another QB get snaps. I do not agree w/ everything HCMG does or even how he acts sometimes, but I also realize that he is our best bet of continuing the winning culture that he has established. The season seems to be in the shitter, no doubt, but I don't believe, as some on here do, that the end is near for our football program.
Can you list the posters who explicitly said this would end the football program?
 
Dec 6, 2013
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#71
That's a pretty damn fickle fan base if we can't get over a few losses after 3 of 4 10 win seasons...we will deserve what we get if we give up so easy.
10 win seasons being our ceiling is part of the problem. The big 12 has been down two of the past four years. OU lost its legendary head coach and we had Mason and James as seniors. We werent going to get a better chance, and we still weren’t competitive.
 

Rack

Federal Marshal
Oct 13, 2004
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#73
10 win seasons being our ceiling is part of the problem. The big 12 has been down two of the past four years. OU lost its legendary head coach and we had Mason and James as seniors. We weren't going to get a better chance, and we still weren’t competitive.
Well how do you reckon we change the fact that 10 win seasons and such are our ceiling? We only have 9 of them in 105 years of football, 6 with Gundy as head coach and 2 with him as QB (8 of 9). It's not like we have ever been in this territory before and 10 wins is way better than our past. We are also winning bowl games. Look we all want progress, but we don't want to trash what we do have either. Plus we were "competitive" in every game last year, even those we lost...I don't understand some football fans who can't enjoy a season unless your team wins all their games...that only happens for one team a year, so it's a self defeating philosophy to adhere too.
 
Last edited:
May 4, 2011
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#74
Well how do you reckon we change the fact that 10 win seasons and such are our ceiling? We only have 9 of them in 105 years of football, 6 with Gundy as head coach and 2 with him as QB (8 of 9). It's not like we have ever been in this territory before and 10 wins is way better than our past. We are also winning bowl games. Look we all want progress, but we don't want to trash what we do have either. Plus we were "competitive" in every game last year, even those we lost...I don't understand some football fans who can't enjoy a season unless your team wins all their games...that only happens for one team a year, so it's a self defeating philosophy to adhere too.
Right, we all want to be like UCF last year.
 

Birry

Federal Marshal
Feb 6, 2007
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#75
Well how do you reckon we change the fact that 10 win seasons and such are our ceiling? We only have 9 of them in 105 years of football, 6 with Gundy as head coach and 2 with him as QB (8 of 9). It's not like we have ever been in this territory before and 10 wins is way better than our past. We are also winning bowl games. Look we all want progress, but we don't want to trash what we do have either. Plus we were "competitive" in every game last year, even those we lost...I don't understand some football fans who can't enjoy a season unless your team wins all their games...that only happens for one team a year, so it's a self defeating philosophy to adhere too.
The best analogy I can come up with is to compare football to basketball. Under Travis Ford, our style was unwatchable (to me). It wasn't the losses; it was the manner in which we lost. It was the product on the court. The games weren't even fun to watch. And a lot of it was because there was no sign of improvement or hope for the future, even with highly ranked recruits. It was the same garbage every game. Our players never seemed to progress, we were undisciplined, played no defense, and he didn't seem to adjust anything to suit our personnel. Aside from Kansas, I didn't fee like we could hang with legit teams on any given night. We just looked poorly coached.

That's exactly how I feel about OSU football right now. Its literally become not fun to watch us play. Like.....I'd rather go mow my lawn than watch us lose in a shootout with Iowa State. So no.......I don't enjoy watching bad football, especially when we have more talent and get outcoached. Its pathetic, and I have better things to do with my time.
 

Rack

Federal Marshal
Oct 13, 2004
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#77
The best analogy I can come up with is to compare football to basketball. Under Travis Ford, our style was unwatchable (to me). It wasn't the losses; it was the manner in which we lost. It was the product on the court. The games weren't even fun to watch. And a lot of it was because there was no sign of improvement or hope for the future, even with highly ranked recruits. It was the same garbage every game. Our players never seemed to progress, we were undisciplined, played no defense, and he didn't seem to adjust anything to suit our personnel. Aside from Kansas, I didn't fee like we could hang with legit teams on any given night. We just looked poorly coached.

That's exactly how I feel about OSU football right now. Its literally become not fun to watch us play. Like.....I'd rather go mow my lawn than watch us lose in a shootout with Iowa State. So no.......I don't enjoy watching bad football, especially when we have more talent and get outcoached. Its pathetic, and I have better things to do with my time.
So you are saying Gundy is like Travis Ford yet his results show him to be much closer to Eddie Sutton at least in terms of records and position in the conference...and historically for our football program when you think about where we have been. It's really apples to oranges when comparing basketball and football coaching but IMHO wanting Gundy gone is extreme folly on the level of wanting Eddie gone in the down years (late 90's) , an unrealistic impression of our position, and worst of all, self defeating...in the very least it would be fan base splitting / shattering if it was to happen without due process of several seasons (and no, 10 win season are NEVER down seasons anywhere, least of all at Oklahoma State).

My advice would be to take a break if one cannot handle the ups and downs of following a football program that doesn't always win championships. It's not easy being an Oklahoma State fan and that is the very thing that makes the good seasons so much fun, we have been spoiled for about a decade but make no mistake it was very fun. IMHO, if a person cannot enjoy the good and root for the kids during the bad then what is the point of being a fan? Is it so we can stick out our chest and say we are a fan of a team that always wins Championships...to make us feel better about our own life? If so, we might as well be ou fans.
 
Aug 22, 2006
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#78
I don't want to speak for Birry. Our offense is the really close to the same regardless of the opponent in my opinion. We aren't seeing a special package for #30 or a special package for #89, we don't see many if any in game adjustments. We don't see many new things. We game plan like we have Alabama's talent but we have OSU's talent. That's what makes it feel like groundhog day every Saturday. That's what people are getting upset about, that's why people/I question the coaching ability of MY. People are not satisfied with HCMG because he doesn't see it as a problem, just as last year we had the players to win the Big12 but you know the results of the coaching.
 
Sep 23, 2018
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#80
Well how do you reckon we change the fact that 10 win seasons and such are our ceiling? We only have 9 of them in 105 years of football, 6 with Gundy as head coach and 2 with him as QB (8 of 9). It's not like we have ever been in this territory before and 10 wins is way better than our past. We are also winning bowl games. Look we all want progress, but we don't want to trash what we do have either. Plus we were "competitive" in every game last year, even those we lost...I don't understand some football fans who can't enjoy a season unless your team wins all their games...that only happens for one team a year, so it's a self defeating philosophy to adhere too.
Rack, I hear you about your point about having multiple 10-win seasons consistently in the last 4-5 years.

Here's my thing, and I think part of what Birry is saying:

Point 1.) You can win 10 games every season that the program exists, great. But if you lose to your in-state/in-conference rival basically every season, what's the point? This brings me back to why Gundy is 2-11 against them as head coach. What is holding him and the coordinators back from truly unleashing a varied playbook that puts OU on their heels, and allows us to actually *win* some games against them? As I said in a previous post, I'd be fine with winning half of our games against them. I don't think that's asking for much.

Point 2.) Let's look at some of the 10 wins from 2017. Let's look at margin of victory and how many points *we* gave up, even though we won. This has been my problem with Gundy for at least two or three years now: the *quality* of our wins is pure crap.

Texas Tech: We won 41-34. We gave up 34 points to an unranked team and had to sweat out a win. We were ranked #14 at the time, I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong. In their stadium, sure, but according to Gundy, this was one of the best teams he had ever coached/been a part of.

Texas: We won 13-10. There's a huge flop there. Again, against an unranked team, we struggled.

West Virginia: 50-39, they were unranked. Really? We let them score 39?

Iowa State: 49-42. See a pattern here?

Those were all on the road, so I will give them a slight benefit of the doubt. But they were all inferior teams that shouldn't have given us any problems.

And then, of course, don't get me started on the three home losses. Those were ALL embarrassing, and that includes OU.

This is the issue that I've seen developing. We've put so much emphasis on offense. We can more or less call ourselves Wide Receiver University at this point, which is cool, I guess. But it doesn't mean much if you're struggling to get wins when you don't have to be. If our defense is even half better than the last three years or so, we'd have two conference championships at least.