Least-Educated State: California No. 1

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kaboy42

Territorial Marshal
May 2, 2007
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#61
sorry man, I posted nearly an identical post as yours and didn't read yours first...didn't mean to steal your thunder. :)
No harm done... it's exactly what I am trying to convey to CaliforniaCowboy... but he isn't going to hear it. No slam on California at all. It's a beautifully diverse state that I've visited a lot... and have always immensely enjoyed my visits... but I just could not afford to, nor would I choose to, trade my circumstances to live there.

I can say the exact same thing about Boston. My salary... my dollar, goes so much further in Oklahoma than it does on either of the phrama coasts. THE only place comparable (for my industry/career anyways), is the Raleigh-Durham area. Which, I fully intend to scope out in the future for my career.
 

Rack

Federal Marshal
Oct 13, 2004
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#62
One example. The cost of gasoline in California is higher than other states because the STATE of California requires special blends AND the taxes are higher. Those are the only reasons-California state government.

A lot of the high costs of Belize, Easter Island, and Hawaii are due to their remoteness and small size. California is neither remote or small.
Just to be cantankerous because I have an attachment to this topic...sorry:derp::oops:...the remote and small parts of California (yep they exist) are actually much cheaper than the less remote than the "big" parts. So that doesn't apply to California. In other words, the further you are from the major cities the better place to live California becomes. Some spots still exist out there that are attractive in terms of real estate cost (sort of but they bounce up and down the spectrum pretty wildly at times) but you still have to pay the high taxes and it's still more expensive than Oklahoma, even in the remote areas. The small mountain community where I worked one summer in the mid-80's while an OSU student is somewhere I watch in terms of real estate and have for years...it swings wildly depending on time of year and when the last wildfire occurred. Sometimes prices are like Tulsa...other times they are more like typically California...you just have to catch it right and be ok with evacuating once each decade due to the forest fires on the mountain...this town has yet to burn, but it has to be terrifying when things go bad every so often. That's the only thing that has kept me from buying there for future retirement.
 
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CaliforniaCowboy

Federal Marshal
Oct 15, 2003
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#63
Where were you raised in Tulsa? Tulsa has vastly improved...not sure if your old area has, but it's a MUCH nicer city than I would bet the last time you visited. Plus, while San Diego SHOULD BE paradise and used to be such, it's now a city with up to 20 homeless persons per block and smells like piss in many places...it's an epidemic of homelessness with no end in site. As a person born in California, I love the rural parts of the state...but not the cities...NOT at all. Tulsa is a FAR SUPERIOR place to raise a family than any large city in California and actually just a better place to live overall if you like to have any money in your pocket and ability to travel elsewhere. Once again, I love California...and I can visit anytime I please...If I lived in Cali again (which used to be a dream for me) it would likely be FAR more difficult to visit Oklahoma any time I pleased. It's just simple economics.
got cha..... but you might be surprised by the actual numbers...


United States cities by crime rate is based on Federal Bureau of Investigation Uniform Crime Reports statistics from 2015.

violent crime per 100,000
(murder, non-negligent manslaughter, rape, robbery, aggravated assault)

San Jose 330
San Diego 399
Fresno 551
Long Beach 581
Los Angeles 635
Sacramento 737

Okla City 766
Tulsa 904

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
HOMELESS

Tulsa
Tulsa County, Oklahoma Population 2018. Tulsa County, Oklahoma's estimated population is 646,266 with a growth rate of 0.19% in the past year according to the most recent United States census data.

this year’s one-night homeless count, recorded Jan. 25, 2018, was 1,083 people.
Don’t fixate on that number, though. As Patrice Pratt, CSC’s division director for housing and homelessness, will tell you, it really doesn’t tell the story of Tulsa’s homeless population.
“It doesn’t tell you the scale of homelessness,” she said. “It’s that one snapshot.”

The larger story, Pratt said, is that over the past decade, the number of Tulsans experiencing homelessness increased by 7 percent — from 5,496 in 2007 to 5,854 in 2017.
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/loc...cle_ebaa42b6-426b-5ff8-957b-b11ee1724122.html

San Diego
Jun 12, 2018 - San Diego is estimated to have a population of 1,339,000,

San Diego County’s data was taken from the 2018 Point in Time Study, completed Jan. 26. The region had an official count of 8,576 homeless residents
 

Rack

Federal Marshal
Oct 13, 2004
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#64
Cali - Those are old stats...murder rate in Tulsa was down in 2018 as compared to previous years, and while homeless is indeed up everywhere it's NOTHING compared to a recent visit to San Diego that my wife just experienced. She said there were about 20 per block and they saw them everywhere they went and not just a few like here in Tulsa...but whole colonies of them. Could the count be misleading? Never put it past governments to skew the numbers.

Btw, experiencing homelessness is someone who was homeless for any part of the year, including ONE NIGHT...homeless population is a semi permanent population figure. Plus the Tulsa statistic you quoted was those experiencing homelessness over an entire decade, not the homeless population in a specific year...vastly different stats.

Plus the ONE NIGHT at least homeless count in Tulsa was only 1,083 people in 2018...which is EIGHT TIMES less than San Diego...even per capita Tulsa fares far better in this category.
 
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CaliforniaCowboy

Federal Marshal
Oct 15, 2003
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#65
Cali - Those are old stats...murder rate in Tulsa was down in 2018 as compared to previous years, and while homeless is indeed up everywhere it's NOTHING compared to a recent visit to San Diego that my wife just experienced. She said there were about 20 per block and they saw them everywhere they went and not just a few like here in Tulsa...but whole colonies of them. Could the count be misleading? Never put it past governments to skew the numbers.
so.... you don't believe it, so it's not true?

Yeah, they're 2015, the first thing that popped up, I thought it was close enough for discussion (and it's violent crime, not just murder)

I'm not saying that homelessness is not a problem, it is certainly much easier to be homeless in paradise. Much of it is by choice (e.g., they won't go to available housing because they can't take their dog, etc.)
 
Jul 20, 2018
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#66
Just to be cantankerous because I have an attachment to this topic...sorry:derp::oops:...the remote and small parts of California (yep they exist) are actually much cheaper than the less remote than the "big" parts. So that doesn't apply to California. In other words, the further you are from the major cities the better place to live California becomes. Some spots still exist out there that are attractive in terms of real estate cost (sort of but they bounce up and down the spectrum pretty wildly at times) but you still have to pay the high taxes and it's still more expensive than Oklahoma, even in the remote areas. The small mountain community where I worked one summer in the mid-80's while an OSU student is somewhere I watch in terms of real estate and have for years...it swings wildly depending on time of year and when the last wildfire occurred. Sometimes prices are like Tulsa...other times they are more like typically California...you just have to catch it right and be ok with evacuating once each decade due to the forest fires on the mountain...this town has yet to burn, but it has to be terrifying when things go bad every so often. That's the only thing that has kept me from buying there for future retirement.
I understand that housing is cheaper but very little else is. I gave gasoline as but one example of that. More fundamental than that is my right to live as I choose. The state of California is constantly attempting to reduce the liberties of their citizens. I don't want to live under such tyranny.
 

CaliforniaCowboy

Federal Marshal
Oct 15, 2003
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#67
Btw, experiencing homelessness is someone who was homeless for any part of the year, including ONE NIGHT...homeless population is a semi permanent population figure. Plus the Tulsa statistic you quoted was those experiencing homelessness over an entire decade, not the homeless population in a specific year...vastly different stats.

.
nope, read it again.... it says it went up 7% in a decade TO 5,800/year

I posted the number, I know what they say, you don't have to explain them to me. Take it for what it is.

sounds like, my bad is not as bad as your bad. My poop smells better than yours. etc.
 

CaliforniaCowboy

Federal Marshal
Oct 15, 2003
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So Cal
#68
I understand that housing is cheaper but very little else is. I gave gasoline as but one example of that. More fundamental than that is my right to live as I choose. The state of California is constantly attempting to reduce the liberties of their citizens. I don't want to live under such tyranny.
actually, it's mostly the citizens doing it to themselves, which is called self government.

I don't like it either, and will be leaving in a couple of years. The tyranny is getting worse every single year, and it's largely self imposed.

I just have to figure out a place that is actually "better"..... Texas seemed reasonable, but it's going down hill fast. Oklahoma weather is horrible, and the bugs are worse.

Arizona has a State tax now.... Florida is not a consideration because of freaking hurricanes.

I'm open to suggestions.... got a couple of siblings in Alabama (Huntsville), and S.Carolina, East Texas, Phoenix, and Tulsa.... Ca is just to far from family at this point.

I'll probably end up on the lakefront in Keystone - but not sure why other than OSU.
 
Jul 20, 2018
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#69
actually, it's mostly the citizens doing it to themselves, which is called self government.

I don't like it either, and will be leaving in a couple of years. The tyranny is getting worse every single year, and it's largely self imposed.

I just have to figure out a place that is actually "better"..... Texas seemed reasonable, but it's going down hill fast. Oklahoma weather is horrible, and the bugs are worse.

Arizona has a State tax now.... Florida is not a consideration because of freaking hurricanes.

I'm open to suggestions.... got a couple of siblings in Alabama (Huntsville), and S.Carolina, East Texas, Phoenix, and Tulsa.... Ca is just to far from family at this point.

I'll probably end up on the lakefront in Keystone - but not sure why other than OSU.
If you're retiring, I'd go to north-central Arkansas (Heber Springs area) or the Texas Hill Country. If you're continuing to work, I'd go to a suburb west of Austin or San Antonio. I like East Texas, too. I'm guessing it would be too Hicksville for you, though.
 

Rack

Federal Marshal
Oct 13, 2004
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#70
nope, read it again.... it says it went up 7% in a decade TO 5,800/year....UMMM, NO it Does NOT say that. It says""""over the past decade, the number of Tulsans experiencing homelessness increased by 7 percent — from 5,496 in 2007 to 5,854 in 2017"" That's comparing the decade ending in 2007 to the one ending in 2017.

I posted the number, I know what they say, you don't have to explain them to me. Take it for what it is.
"this year’s one-night homeless count, recorded Jan. 25, 2018, was 1,083 people"
That's the 2017 homeless population TOTAL annual one year count according to the writer who wants more funding likely for his organization.(i.e. his number is high)


sounds like, my bad is not as bad as your bad. My poop smells better than yours. etc.
Read it again. It's you that isn't reading it correctly. Honest mistake I'm sure...Look I live in Tulsa and work at 11th and Utica, I'm proud of the changes Tulsa has and IS making..While one is too many, I KNOW the numbers and they aren't what you are implying...not even close. I'm downtown EVERY day.

When was the last time you visited Tulsa?

Look, I like you Cali, always have, but I don't want you trashing my hometown with stats that are incorrect or don't reflect current conditions.
 
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CaliforniaCowboy

Federal Marshal
Oct 15, 2003
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So Cal
#71
Read it again. It's you that isn't reading it correctly. Honest mistake I'm sure...Look I live in Tulsa and work at 11th and Utica, I'm proud of the changes Tulsa has and IS making..I KNOW the numbers and they aren't what you are implying...not even close.

When was the last time you visited Tulsa?
it actually says exactly what I said that it said. it increased by 7% in the decade to 5,800 in 2017. that is 5,500/yr in 2007 to 5,800/yr in 2017.

I didn't imply anything... just pointed out that crime in big city CA, is not as bad as big city OK, which someone had suggested otherwise.

I was there Thanksgiving 2017. Dad lives near there these days (25th and Harvard). I have a sister that lives in the slums near TU, and another that lives around 81st and Sheridan.
 

Rack

Federal Marshal
Oct 13, 2004
18,950
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Earth
#72
it actually says exactly what I said that it said. it increased by 7% in the decade to 5,800 in 2017. that is 5,500/yr in 2007 to 5,800/yr in 2017.

I didn't imply anything... just pointed out that crime in big city CA, is not as bad as big city OK, which someone had suggested otherwise.

I was there Thanksgiving 2017. Dad lives near there these days (25th and Harvard). I have a sister that lives in the slums near TU, and another that lives around 81st and Sheridan.
She must live North of 244, because no "slums" exist on the South side of that highway near TU...AND, believe it or not, things have changed a TON since then. Where the hell do you live that you think TU area is "slummy" these days? Santa Barbara on the beach?

Btw, you are adding "/yr" to attempt to make your point...once again GO BACK AND READ the quote for the Love of God! It say that homeless population in 2017 was 1,083 and compared stats for decades ending 2007 and 2017 (didn't stat that specifically however)...that's because it was likely purposely written that way so that people like you would get confused and think our homeless population is bigger than it is...THUS getting more funding for the government program.
 
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CaliforniaCowboy

Federal Marshal
Oct 15, 2003
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So Cal
#73
She must live North of 244, because no "slums" exist on the South side of that highway near TU...AND, believe it or not, things have changed a TON since then. Where the hell do you live that you think TU area is "slummy" these days? Santa Barbara on the beach?

Btw, you are adding "/yr" to attempt to make your point...once again GO BACK AND READ the quote for the Love of God! It say that homeless population in 2017 was 1,083 and compared stats for decades ending 2007 and 2017 (didn't stat that specifically however)...that's because it was likely purposely written that way so that people like you would get confused and think our homeless population is bigger than it is...THUS getting more funding for the government program.
yes, North of 244, what a whole 11 blocks away?

I live in Horsetown U.S.A.

I don't need to read it again, perhaps you should click on the link. The 1,000 number is (one day snap shot) - which, as they said, does not tell the whole story.

The SECOND STAT says 5,800/yr. It's not my story, I didn't write it.

My point was more about the crime, not the comparative homelessness.
 

Rack

Federal Marshal
Oct 13, 2004
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#74
yes, North of 244, what a whole 11 blocks away?

I live in Horsetown U.S.A.

I don't need to read it again, perhaps you should click on the link. The 1,000 number is (one day snap shot) - which, as they said, does not tell the whole story.

The SECOND STAT says 5,800/yr. It's not my story, I didn't write it.

My point was more about the crime, not the comparative homelessness.
it's incorrect regarding homelessness, crime rates are too high but are projected to go down substantially over the next year as they have been trending down...but regarding homelessness, that's more than the homeless population of the entire state which is 4,199, 10.7 people out of 10,000 households per "National Alliance to End Homelessness." Btw, California homeless population by that same organization is 134,278. 34.2 people out of 10,000 households.

According to this site Tulsa Co. has a homeless population of 1,074 or 16.7 per 10,000 people
San Diego Co. has a homeless population of 9,160 or 27.6 per 10,000 people

https://endhomelessness.org/homeles...MIj6WGicDS3wIVgbrACh02ZQHIEAAYASAAEgKWX_D_BwE

My point is that homelessness in Oklahoma is FAR LESS a problem than in California. San Diego numbers are equally bad. Certainly the weather and lack of boarder security contributes to those California epidemic numbers as do liberal policies.

Btw, I grew up as a small child (somewhat) in Riverside County, USAF bratt...Also, a btw, Riverside counties homeless rate is nearly equal to Oklahoma's...not so for LA County and San Diego County.
 
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StillwaterTownie

Federal Marshal
Jun 18, 2010
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Where else but Stillwater
#75
If you haven't heard of Tulsa's new world class park that cost close to a half billion dollars, you're not up to date. No doubt, cities, like Tulsa, seen as highly undesirable places to live by outsiders, need to do something that really stands out.

If you're don't like the high crime rate of Tulsa, then live in one of the fast growing suburbs, such as Owasso. The crime rate in most of Oklahoma's suburbs is lower than Stillwater's.

 
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Jostate

CPTNQUIRK called me a greenhorn
A/V Subscriber
Jun 24, 2005
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#76
As for living in CA and the benefits. I live 30 min. from the ocean, 3 hours from the mountains, 5-6 hours from the desert, and 4-5 hours from 2 National Parks. I can eat at a 5 star restaurant, go to any music, sporting, or entertainment event that is in season, and see some of the best art in the world. Oh and the weather is fantastic. So while I know it is expensive here and most people on this site can't imagine living here, for those people with vast interests, there are few places better in the world. But to each their own:)
I think that is the point to some extent. California has some of the most beautiful land in the world and tremendous geographic advantages. That isn't a result of brilliant legislation or politics. Those advantages were there before the pilgrims bumped into the east coast. Despite these advantages the results in many other ways aren't what they could be.
 

kaboy42

Territorial Marshal
May 2, 2007
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#77
I'm a gearhead. I buy vehicles specifically so I can modify them and put my own personal touch on the looks, handling and performance of the vehicle I own. Thankfully I live in a state that allows me the liberties to do this. Not so much in California...




Because of my hobbies and my interests... YES, I personally can "live" more in Okla than I can in Cali.
 

oks10

Territorial Marshal
Sep 9, 2007
7,934
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Yukon, OK
#78
I'm a gearhead. I buy vehicles specifically so I can modify them and put my own personal touch on the looks, handling and performance of the vehicle I own. Thankfully I live in a state that allows me the liberties to do this. Not so much in California...




Because of my hobbies and my interests... YES, I personally can "live" more in Okla than I can in Cali.
I was wondering when this was finally going to find its way onto here. :D I've seen some people in FB groups say the video is fake. The video might be, but the law isn't. No more fix-it tickets, straight fines because having a modified exhaust automatically makes you an illegal street racer. :derp: I've said it before and I'll say it the rest of my life, you couldn't PAY me to live in that crazy place...
 

CaliforniaCowboy

Federal Marshal
Oct 15, 2003
15,858
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So Cal
#79
I was wondering when this was finally going to find its way onto here. :D I've seen some people in FB groups say the video is fake. The video might be, but the law isn't. No more fix-it tickets, straight fines because having a modified exhaust automatically makes you an illegal street racer. :derp: I've said it before and I'll say it the rest of my life, you couldn't PAY me to live in that crazy place...
who in their right mind would modify their exhaust? The air is bad enough already, no need trying to kill everybody.