Lawn Question

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Aug 26, 2009
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#1
Our backyard in Tulsa is very shaded. Last year I used some general fescue and it took real well till the trees filled in and the heat rolled in.

Today I went to look at some Heartland Supreme mix seed that was developed at OSU specifically for shade in Oklahoma. I also going some 5 Star Extreme Shade that was double the cost but according to the clerk it was worth it.

Anybody have any first hand experiences with either of these in shaded Oklahoma yards?
 
Feb 6, 2007
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#3
Heartland Supreme was not developed by OSU. It was developed based on recommendations by OSU.
Remember, fescue, ryegrass, and bluegrass are cool-season varieties; meaning that to survive our summer heat they will require tremendous amounts of water and virtually full-shade. In southern Oklahoma, that means daily water.
Also, if some of the varieties are annual, they will have to be reseeded or "thickened up" yearly.
To minimize disease buildup that is exacerbated by periods of extended leaf moisture, water in the morning and improve air flow if you can.
 
Aug 26, 2009
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#4
I think I'm going to go with the heartland. Watered mostly in the evening last year. May try and do morning this time. I shall report results.
 

sc5mu93

WeaselMonkey
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Oct 18, 2006
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#5
I'm gonna hijack this thread for a related lawn question.

Can anyone identify this weed? It is taking over my backyard, and most everything (short of roundup) doesn't seem to kill it. Any suggestions?

I've never had a problem with this stuff, but this spring it is ALL over the place. Not sure how it invaded.

sc5mu93weed.jpg
 

More Cowbell

Territorial Marshal
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May 2, 2005
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#6
I'm gonna hijack this thread for a related lawn question.

Can anyone identify this weed? It is taking over my backyard, and most everything (short of roundup) doesn't seem to kill it. Any suggestions?

I've never had a problem with this stuff, but this spring it is ALL over the place. Not sure how it invaded.

View attachment 29257
Does it have any flowers? The leaves kind of look like chickweed. I've had a bit of that in my yard, too.
 

sc5mu93

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#7
Does it have any flowers? The leaves kind of look like chickweed. I've had a bit of that in my yard, too.
after googling, I think it may be chickweed. But it hasn't flowered. Yet. The lack of flowers is throwing me off.

Generally, shouldnt broadleaf agents take care of this stuff? I've tried spectracized for broadleafs, and it has had little effect.
 
Feb 6, 2007
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#8
I'm gonna hijack this thread for a related lawn question.

Can anyone identify this weed? It is taking over my backyard, and most everything (short of roundup) doesn't seem to kill it. Any suggestions?

I've never had a problem with this stuff, but this spring it is ALL over the place. Not sure how it invaded.

View attachment 29257
When did it germinate?
Definitely looks like chickweed. 2,4-D products should control it rather well. However, since it is a cool-season annual (if it is chickweed), it may require higher rates of 2,4-D to control it in advanced maturity, if you are mixing. If you are spot-spraying with "ready to use" products, compare concentration levels and/or wet it more thoroughly. Generally, broadleaf weeds will begin to show signs of curling, twisting, and malformation within a couple hours of 2,4-D application.
 

jakeman

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#9
My experience with fescue & rye grasses has been if you're planting it in the spring, you're too late.

for the last several years I've been seeding in the fall, about the time winter wheat goes in, and I've got more fescue than I know what to do with. Where it's really, really shady, like zero sun, I use an annual rye. It's a pita.

I'm sure I'm doing it wrong, but it's worked better than what I used to do, which was seed in the spring, and then watch it slowly croak in the summer heat no matter how much I watered.
 
Feb 6, 2007
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#10
My experience with fescue & rye grasses has been if you're planting it in the spring, you're too late.

for the last several years I've been seeding in the fall, about the time winter wheat goes in, and I've got more fescue than I know what to do with. Where it's really, really shady, like zero sun, I use an annual rye. It's a pita.

I'm sure I'm doing it wrong, but it's worked better than what I used to do, which was seed in the spring, and then watch it slowly croak in the summer heat no matter how much I watered.
No, you are doing it correctly. Cool-season turf, like fescue and ryegrass, should be seeded in the fall; Sept. in northern Oklahoma and early October in southern Oklahoma.
 
Dec 28, 2006
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Bixby, OK
#11
If that's all you got you can knock it out. I had to have a lawn company come spray my yard. Of the 21 weeds they had listed on their form, I had 9. Most prevalent was henbit. That stuff was everywhere. It's finally dying out.
 

sc5mu93

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#12
When did it germinate?
Definitely looks like chickweed. 2,4-D products should control it rather well. However, since it is a cool-season annual (if it is chickweed), it may require higher rates of 2,4-D to control it in advanced maturity, if you are mixing. If you are spot-spraying with "ready to use" products, compare concentration levels and/or wet it more thoroughly. Generally, broadleaf weeds will begin to show signs of curling, twisting, and malformation within a couple hours of 2,4-D application.
upon closer inspection, a decent proportion of the chickweed in my backyard, does appear to be dying after a 2,4-D application. But SLOOOOOOOOOOWLY. there is also some that has sprouted since the application (2-3 weeks ago) as it does not show ANY signs of dying. I will probably spot spray sometime this week to get the new stuff. I hope I can get this stuff under control.

My front yard is smaller, and with a couple hours of work was able to hand pull most of it. Now I can go into maintenance mode and stay on top of it there at least.
 

jakeman

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#13
upon closer inspection, a decent proportion of the chickweed in my backyard, does appear to be dying after a 2,4-D application. But SLOOOOOOOOOOWLY. there is also some that has sprouted since the application (2-3 weeks ago) as it does not show ANY signs of dying. I will probably spot spray sometime this week to get the new stuff. I hope I can get this stuff under control.

My front yard is smaller, and with a couple hours of work was able to hand pull most of it. Now I can go into maintenance mode and stay on top of it there at least.

Don't pull it. You leave root, which won't be affected by the 24d.

Better living thru chemistry. Mix your juice up a little strong, spray that stuff on a sunny day, and then sit down on the porch with a beer and listen to their screams as they die.

I don't know from nothing, but my lawn guy put round up and preemergent down a while ago, but he waits on the broadleaf killer until middle of May. You want 'em all up and active before the mass killing begins. He'll hit them again in the late summer, then in the fall it's more roundup and preemergent.

I was spending $1000+ on chemical every year, and was never getting it done. Needed to mow every 3 days because of weeds. Started with my guy 5 years ago, and I'll use less than a qt of 24d doing spot treatments, and we mow about every 3 weeks. The preemergent killed off the grass burrs in about 3 years. I was pulling 60 or 70 gallons of stickers every summer and burning them, and they were winning. I pay less for 4 trips a year than I was spending on my own chemical in the summer alone.
 
Feb 6, 2007
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Ardmore, Ok.
#14
upon closer inspection, a decent proportion of the chickweed in my backyard, does appear to be dying after a 2,4-D application. But SLOOOOOOOOOOWLY. there is also some that has sprouted since the application (2-3 weeks ago) as it does not show ANY signs of dying. I will probably spot spray sometime this week to get the new stuff. I hope I can get this stuff under control.

My front yard is smaller, and with a couple hours of work was able to hand pull most of it. Now I can go into maintenance mode and stay on top of it there at least.
This fall, you should consider a pre-emergent application. This will help dramatically in getting these weeds under control. Suggest one application in October, followed by another 6 weeks later. Products containing simazine ('Princep', et al) are very effective against chickweed as both pre- and post-emergent applications. This would allow you to use one chemical throughout the year and simazine is more effective against chickweed than 2,4-D.
Bermuda and St. Augustine are both "tolerant" of simazine, but it is not registered for use on fescue and likely not for annual ryegrass.
 
Feb 6, 2007
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#16
Don't pull it. You leave root, which won't be affected by the 24d.

Better living thru chemistry. Mix your juice up a little strong, spray that stuff on a sunny day, and then sit down on the porch with a beer and listen to their screams as they die.

I don't know from nothing, but my lawn guy put round up and preemergent down a while ago, but he waits on the broadleaf killer until middle of May. You want 'em all up and active before the mass killing begins. He'll hit them again in the late summer, then in the fall it's more roundup and preemergent.

I was spending $1000+ on chemical every year, and was never getting it done. Needed to mow every 3 days because of weeds. Started with my guy 5 years ago, and I'll use less than a qt of 24d doing spot treatments, and we mow about every 3 weeks. The preemergent killed off the grass burrs in about 3 years. I was pulling 60 or 70 gallons of stickers every summer and burning them, and they were winning. I pay less for 4 trips a year than I was spending on my own chemical in the summer alone.
Grass burrs are a symptom of low soil fertility, at least in bermudagrass lawns and pastures. Mother nature does not like a vaccum so, anytime there is open canopy and sunlight hitting bare ground, mother nature is going to fill the vacancy and weeds are opportunistic.
Under good fertility, and with adequate soil moisture and available sunlight, bermudagrass will out-compete the grass burrs. Everyone knows how hard it is to keep bermuda out of the garden!
Good soil fertility, based on a soil analysis, is the long-term solution to the grass burr problem. Chemical control is a band-aid treatment. Using herbicides (as the only form of control) for grass burrs is simply treating the symptom, not the cause. The cause is low soil fertility. However, chemical control can be helpful in jump-starting the recovery process for the first year or two of the management program.
The grass burr seeds may remain in the soil for 20+ years, waiting on an opportunity to germinate. That opportunity is created by a weakened, thinned stand of grass. Not all of the seeds will germinate in any give year, so, if using chemical only, you will need to treat every year for the foreseeable future. To add, unless you are a spring chicken, your children, and maybe their children, will need to continue the chemical treatments after you are gone. :ohmy:
 

jakeman

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#17
I never found anything that would kill the plant, but the preemergent kept new ones from sprouting, which let me catch up on them by digging them, and then the grass filled in, and now, I'm pretty much sticker free.

So, yeah, I think that's what I did, but I'm not sure I really understood all that you said, but still, better living thru chemistry. They are still kicking ass & taking names out in the pasture, but I don't really care. They can have it. I stay on this side of the fence, they stay on that side of the fence, and nobody has to die.
 
Feb 6, 2007
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#18
I never found anything that would kill the plant, but the preemergent kept new ones from sprouting, which let me catch up on them by digging them, and then the grass filled in, and now, I'm pretty much sticker free.

So, yeah, I think that's what I did, but I'm not sure I really understood all that you said, but still, better living thru chemistry. They are still kicking ass & taking names out in the pasture, but I don't really care. They can have it. I stay on this side of the fence, they stay on that side of the fence, and nobody has to die.
I believe in the chemistry and the use of herbicides as well, however, what I was trying to say is that the long-term solution includes fertility.
Should you ever have a hiccup in the pre-emergent application, for whatever reason, and need to apply a post-emergent treatment at some time, imazaqine ('Image'), has decent activity on grass burrs. MSMA also gives reasonable control as a post-emergent application.
As always, read and follow label directions. A tremendous amount of research and "field trials" are conducted to prove these chemicals effective at label rates and per label directions. The chemical companies want you to be a happy customer, because "a happy customer is a repeat customer".
 

jakeman

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#19
I believe in the chemistry and the use of herbicides as well, however, what I was trying to say is that the long-term solution includes fertility.
Should you ever have a hiccup in the pre-emergent application, for whatever reason, and need to apply a post-emergent treatment at some time, imazaqine ('Image'), has decent activity on grass burrs. MSMA also gives reasonable control as a post-emergent application.
As always, read and follow label directions. A tremendous amount of research and "field trials" are conducted to prove these chemicals effective at label rates and per label directions. The chemical companies want you to be a happy customer, because "a happy customer is a repeat customer".
I've tried MSMA. I got about the same results outa that as I do Roundup. It killed every thing it touched.
 
Feb 6, 2007
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Ardmore, Ok.
#20
I've tried MSMA. I got about the same results outa that as I do Roundup. It killed every thing it touched.
I use it almost every year for crabgrass control. Crabgrass is one of the few weeds that bermuda will not choke out, and I get runoff crossing my property from 1/4 mile west, north, and east, so I constantly get seed washed into my yard.
Label directions are pretty specific about daytime temperatures for application, and you must be careful about rate. Label recommends two applications about 10 days apart.
It will definitely turn the bermuda yellow and make it sick, but I have not had any instance of kill on my lawn turf. Unless you are using a sprayer that can be accurately calibrated, MSMA is probably not a wise choice of herbicide.