Knowles first year at Duke

  • You are viewing Orangepower as a Guest. To start new threads, reply to posts, or participate in polls or contests - you must register. Registration is free and easy. Click Here to register.
Jun 29, 2004
1,768
250
1,713
44
La Jolla, California
#1
Looking at Knowles' defenses at Duke, after year one in 2010, Duke ranked 109th in scoring defense, and by year 5 they were 24th. Here are the stats...this is a FYI post and isn't an endorsement nor repudiation of Knowles.

EAR SCORING DEF. TOTAL DEF. FORCED TOS 3rd-Down Def. DEF. EFFICIENCY
2017 20.2 (T21) 332.6 (T21) 19 (T60) 32.0% (16) 1.84 (34)
2016 28.2 (66) 414.7 (67) 19 (T67) 39.7% (68) -.12 (69)
2015 25.4 (47) 394.7 (60) 20 (T68) 37.8% (61) -.31 (89)
2014 21.8 (T24) 399.7 (69) 21 (T57) 34.4% (17) -.19 (76)
2013 26.6 (T64) 418.0 (83) 26 (T26) 37.3% (45) -.05 (71)
2012 36.0 (T110) 469.2 (109) 23 (T48) 41.8% (77) -.61 (100)
2011 31.2 (90) 425.4 (92) 12 (T116) 43.0% (87) -.66 (101)
2010 35.4 (109) 450.1 (108) 18 (T86) 41.7% (78) -.73 (105)

*Source: Pistols Firing Blog, January 2018
 
Nov 6, 2010
303
164
593
#2
Very interesting. Looks like a definite trend towards improvement. I wonder what Duke's offensive numbers looked like during those same periods. The more I watch us play this year, the more I think offensive success has as much to do with defensive success as any other factor.
 
Mar 1, 2005
533
42
1,578
37
Enid, Oklahoma
#4
Look at years two and three. 90th and 110th. Are we really going to be as patient as Duke was? I don't think OSU can afford to waste the potential of a great Spencer Sanders' offense on a defense that continues to look this bad for another 2-3 years. I'm definitely not calling for a change this quick, but it HAS to get better next year.
 
Sep 16, 2004
2,322
1,398
1,743
44
DFW
#5
Very interesting. Looks like a definite trend towards improvement. I wonder what Duke's offensive numbers looked like during those same periods. The more I watch us play this year, the more I think offensive success has as much to do with defensive success as any other factor.
I would also be curious about the average points scored by opposing teams’ offenses across the season. I assume this is comparing apples-to-apples.

It seems like a major factor of his defense so far is putting pressure on QBs while not giving WRs large cushions that allow the QB to get rid of the ball quickly.

This can be problematic when a) the other team runs into the gaps created by a blitz or b) the offensive line holds (sometimes literally) our pass rush at bay.

I’m not sure if give more time, Knowles will recruit the talent he needs for these schemes or the team will have a better understanding and execute better.

(Feel free to correct me. This is my layman’s understanding as I’m not a coach/analyst/football video game junkie.)
 
Dec 21, 2008
545
300
1,613
#6
Stagnant offense also decreases energy levels also for the defense. Just watch the body language after our offense sucks verses when we make a big play and score. Energy and momentum oftentimes have more to do more with success than just talent and personnel. Purdue, UCF etc
 

RxCowboy

Has no Rx for his orange obsession.
A/V Subscriber
Nov 8, 2004
66,265
48,066
1,743
Wishing I was in Stillwater
#7
Duke total offense (ppg=passing yards per game; rpg=rushing yards per game)
2010 76 271.3 ppg 110 rpg
2011 90 272.2 ppg 94.1 rpg
2012 49 283.9 ppg 125.2 rpg
2013 29 248.1 ppg 178.0 rpg
2014 63 216.5 ppg 181.8 rpg
2015 38 246.5 ppg 192.9 rpg
2016 90 239.8 ppg 153.6 rpg
2017 74 213.4 ppg 171.4 rpg

Rushing yards per game rank
2017 56
2016 40
2015 37
2014 81
2013 54
2012 25
2011 115
2010 104

Just eyeballing the numbers, it looks to me like their scoring defense improved as their rushing offense improved.
 

cowboyethics344

Federal Marshal
Apr 2, 2008
17,240
8,164
1,743
#8
Knowles is fine. He has been put in a bad position. We will continue to lose games because of yurchich offense is incapable of sustained drives and keeping our defense rested
 

RxCowboy

Has no Rx for his orange obsession.
A/V Subscriber
Nov 8, 2004
66,265
48,066
1,743
Wishing I was in Stillwater
#9
Knowles is fine. He has been put in a bad position. We will continue to lose games because of yurchich offense is incapable of sustained drives and keeping our defense rested
#12 total offense
#17 points per game
#19 passing yards per game
#41 rushing yards per game
#18 total offensive downs
#43 (42.2%) third down efficiency (honestly, I thought it would be worse)

Knowles might be fine, the defense isn't.
#83 scoring defense
#70 total defense
#87 passing yards per game
#55 rushing yards per game (why run when you can throw)
 
Feb 18, 2009
3,851
2,077
743
#10
At this point, OCWTF is getting as big a pass as Ford.

His offensive product is not good. Stats lie. He’s led us to 5 home losses in two years. His offense has been passed by ISU, Tech and Baylor. He’s no where near Riley. Instead of the “buyout” being the reason it’s over inflated stats against the worst teams on our schedule.
 

RxCowboy

Has no Rx for his orange obsession.
A/V Subscriber
Nov 8, 2004
66,265
48,066
1,743
Wishing I was in Stillwater
#11
At this point, OCWTF is getting as big a pass as Ford.

His offensive product is not good. Stats lie. He’s led us to 5 home losses in two years. His offense has been passed by ISU, Tech and Baylor. He’s no where near Riley. Instead of the “buyout” being the reason it’s over inflated stats against the worst teams on our schedule.
You don't think the #83 scoring defense in the country contributed to those losses? In our four losses we've given up an average of 38.8 points. That's okay with you? You don't see a problem with that? That gets a pass?
 

cowboyethics344

Federal Marshal
Apr 2, 2008
17,240
8,164
1,743
#12
#12 total offense
#17 points per game
#19 passing yards per game
#41 rushing yards per game
#18 total offensive downs
#43 (42.2%) third down efficiency (honestly, I thought it would be worse)

Knowles might be fine, the defense isn't.
#83 scoring defense
#70 total defense
#87 passing yards per game
#55 rushing yards per game (why run when you can throw)
We need to be way better rushing the ball in order to sustain drives.
 

RxCowboy

Has no Rx for his orange obsession.
A/V Subscriber
Nov 8, 2004
66,265
48,066
1,743
Wishing I was in Stillwater
#15
Can we get Glen Spencer back? I think he is way better than Knowles. That was a mistake firing Spencer.

Come back Glen.
Oh, I think Gundy was right to make a change in DCs. I think what we're seeing now is what Spencer left us with. I think Knowles needs to make some changes in assistants, bring in some of his own guys, and bring in some of his own players. I think it will get better. I also think @cowboyethics344 is right about the offense protecting the defense, but I don't think that is an offense that he's going to like. It would be more run oriented, deliberate, slower-paced, Big 10 like... "vanilla".
 

Birry

Federal Marshal
Feb 6, 2007
11,454
6,642
1,743
Landlocked
#16
Oh, I think Gundy was right to make a change in DCs. I think what we're seeing now is what Spencer left us with. I think Knowles needs to make some changes in assistants, bring in some of his own guys, and bring in some of his own players. I think it will get better. I also think @cowboyethics344 is right about the offense protecting the defense, but I don't think that is an offense that he's going to like. It would be more run oriented, deliberate, slower-paced, Big 10 like... "vanilla".
I completely disagree with the "vanilla" offense idea as the only alternative to what we currently have. You don't have to be vanilla to execute a 10 play drive. You just have to use some higher % routes, and continue to be creative/aggressive enough to keep the chains moving.

One of our biggest problems (even with Holgersen at times) was the inability to create a long, sustained drive.

Honestly, the play calling from the offensive staff at the end of the Baylor game lost that game. Our coaches thought they could just run up the middle and pick up enough first downs (even thought Baylor had timeouts!) to 4 min offense them to close out the game. That was NOT the situation to run that offense. We needed to mix in some passes to gain enough first downs to force them to burn timeouts, THEN start running up the middle. What we did essentially gave them the game. And that is directly on whoever was calling those plays. Now, that plan comes with obvious risks..........but you know what? You have to take risks to win at the D1 level. And Gundy only seems to take those risks when it makes very little sense to do so.
 
Last edited:
Feb 18, 2009
3,851
2,077
743
#17
You don't think the #83 scoring defense in the country contributed to those losses? In our four losses we've given up an average of 38.8 points. That's okay with you? You don't see a problem with that? That gets a pass?
My post was about offense. Settle down with the condescending/brow beating responses. It's getting old (from all of the guys that keep doing it on either side of any argument) and we're all on the same team.

We can talk about how bad the defense is all day, won't change anything. OSU will never have a great D. You can't have this many DC's under one coach and produce the same thing all the time without acknowledging that it's systemic. I hate watching OSU on defense. I used to at least love watching us play offense. That't not fun anymore either. It's a bad product to watch, just like Ford ball, which is exactly what my post was about.

OCWTF is getting a pass because his offenses inflate stats against bad teams or in losses. Neither mean s**t in terms of reaching the next level. Winning is what matters and he's not a winner.
 

RxCowboy

Has no Rx for his orange obsession.
A/V Subscriber
Nov 8, 2004
66,265
48,066
1,743
Wishing I was in Stillwater
#18
My post was about offense. Settle down with the condescending/brow beating responses. It's getting old (from all of the guys that keep doing it on either side of any argument) and we're all on the same team.

We can talk about how bad the defense is all day, won't change anything. OSU will never have a great D.
Why would you bitch about mediocrity of the OC and simply accept mediocrity from the DC? That makes absolutely no sense.
 
Apr 20, 2013
236
123
593
33
Bakersfield, CA
#19
My post was about offense. Settle down with the condescending/brow beating responses. It's getting old (from all of the guys that keep doing it on either side of any argument) and we're all on the same team.

We can talk about how bad the defense is all day, won't change anything. OSU will never have a great D.
Why would you bitch about mediocrity of the OC and simply accept mediocrity from the DC? That makes absolutely no sense.
That's easy. OC mediocrity is relatively new. DC mediocrity has been a chronic issue.