Judgement

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jakeman

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#21
The first level of responsibility is on the Drs. The drug company literally can’t distribute the pills without prescriptions. (I understand there is illegal distribution but that’s not coming from the back of JNJ wear house.)

I had some back pain about a year back wanted to see the ortho that had worked on my paw paw they said I needed an MRI and referral went to a local doc to get all that and I repeatedly turned down pills from him. He asked over and over if I wanted something for the pain.....said no....kept asking....like he was actively trying to get me to accept script meds. There is a “pain management” center on every corner. Big pharma isn’t innocent they know what’s going on but people can’t get the drugs without the dealers. The difference here is there isn’t an endless supply of people in trailers to crank out meth or broke kids to sell weed. It’s licensed medical doctors there is an easy way to crack down on them.

Similar experience with the last 3-4 surgeries I've had. Really willing to rewrite those post operative narcotic scripts, which I never take all of any way. I'll say this about the surgeons though. I really liked all of them, and they all seemed like they had my best interest at heart when they were caring for me. A couple of them gave me their cell phone numbers, and one was a cowboy/roper and brought his young daughter to a cow horse practice arena to see me and to ride a different kind of horse. They were good guys, and I don't think they would have done anything that was detrimental to my care on purpose. So why so free to rewrite those scripts? I don't know.

I'll tell you this, I've only ever taken them for 3-4 days post surgery except for when I had my shoulder fixed. I was taking one every 4 hours, rotating 3 different narcotics and a nausea pill. I took those for 7 days post surgery because I was in an unbelievable amount of pain. A week after surgery around noon I just decided I didn't need them anymore, switched to ibuprofen. By 11 pm I woke my wife up and told her I needed to go to the ER because something was wrong with me. Heart racing. Had the shakes. Anxious and pacing the floor. Mind racing. I was basically flipping out. She asked when the last time I'd had a pill, and she decided I should take one which I did. In 30 minutes all was well. I slowly weaned myself off them over the next 4-5 days. I hadn't become addicted, but my body had become dependent. When my head cleared I realized a couple of truths. I knew a couple of guys that were going to die from addiction to percocet and lortab. They had been taking them legally and illegally for years. 15-25 a day, for years. I was on them for 7 days and it was a struggle for me to get off. They've both since died. I also knew that others, that I didn't know, were also going to die. I'm sure there are exceptions, but just from my own experience, anyone that has a long term addiction to opioids is never gonna get off them, and if they do it will be the hardest thing they do in their life, and they are probably going to lose that battle and die the same as my 2 friends did.

They are powerful drugs. I don't know if there is a replacement for post surgery pain, and I've appreciated having them when I needed them, but something went wrong. I don't know who's fault it is, or if it's even anyone's fault, but something went wrong. Somewhere.
 
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John C

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#22
I had rotator cuff surgery at McBride in OKC in 2011. (BTW, I highly recommend them.) The Doc gave me a script for Oxy, but warned me repeatedly not to take them any longer than necessary as they could be highly addictive. I quit cold turkey after seven days and just took Aleve from that point forward. Never had a problem.
 

steross

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#23
Repeat business?

I’m not indicting the entire field but Dr. Steross prescribes x and dr Donnyboy prescribes 100x it’s worth a look. And maybe there is a good reason my number is 100x but that’s where the scrutiny needs to be begin because this crisis started by prescribing too much of too powerful medicine.
Nope. Definitely not repeat business. And, sure, knock out the illegal pill mills prescribing 100x normal. That isn't what we are talking about. They cropped up to take advantage of the problem. They were not the cause of the problem.

Here is what happened. Pharmaceutical companies reformulated and created extended release forms of old meds to make more money.
They allied with the Joint Commission which created the "pain is the fifth vital sign" BS. First of all, vital signs are signs like heart rate, blood pressure etc. Pain is a symptom, not only is it not a sign it isn't vital at all. Any other vital sign gets too far out of whack and you die immediately. Pain isn't good but isn't even close to a vital sign.

But, with pharmaceutical company urging, they did it. In their own words:
2In 2001, as part of a national effort to address the widespread problem of underassessment and undertreatment of pain, The Joint Commission introduced standards for organizations to improve their care for patients with pain.1 For over a decade, experts had called for better assessment and more aggressive treatment, including the use of opioids.2 Many doctors were afraid to prescribe opioids despite a widely cited article suggesting that addiction was rare when opioids were used for short-term pain.3 Education, guidelines, and advocacy had not changed practice, and leaders called for stronger methods to address the problem.4-7 The standards were based on the available evidence and the strong consensus opinions of experts in the field.

After initial accolades and small studies showing the benefits of following the standards, reports began to emerge about adverse events from overly aggressive treatment, particularly respiratory depression after receiving opioids. A report from The Institute for Safe Medication Practices (ISMP) asked, “Has safety been compromised in our noble efforts to alleviate pain?”8In response to these unintended consequences, the standards and related materials were quickly changed to address some of the problems that had arisen. But lingering criticisms of the standards continue to this day, often based on misperceptions of what the current standards actually say.


And then tried to cover their own actions with this nonsense:
6 Implementation over the next few years. The 2001 Example of Implementation that said “Pain is considered a ‘fifth’ vital sign in the hospital’s care of patients” was changed in 2002 to say “Pain used to be considered the fifth vital sign.” By 2004, this phrase no longer appeared in the Accreditation Standards manual, although the phrase remained in some Joint Commission educational materials for several years after that. All Examples of Implementation were completely eliminated a few years later.

Hospitals and large medical clinics completed audits of pain treatment. If a doctor had a patient with a painful condition (ie sprained ankle yesterday) and did not treat appropriately with pain medication to drop the patient's pain score ("vital sign") then that doctor was treated as if he had ignored low oxygen levels. Add to that the administrators bearind down on you if your patient satisfaction scores were not perfect. And, what better way to satisfy a patient than to give them the high that they want?

And, the article that they stuffed in our faces "proving" that prescribed opiates for short term pain did not cause addiction was from the prestigious New England Journal of Medicine. But, it was a simple letter to the editor written by one doctor and a med student. Read here to see what a joke that was. They author says:
“I’m essentially mortified that that letter to the editor was used as an excuse to do what these drug companies did.”

Blaming the doctor is much like blaming the 17 year old working at McDonalds for the obesity epidemic because those horrible 17 year olds decided to offer "you want fries with that" and "you want to supersize" over and over. 17 year olds didn't do that, they were trained to do that or else. And, doctors didn't do it, they were trained to do it or else.

And, yep, in our health care system most doctors are employed by entities out to make a lot of money. And, yep, just like the rest of you they must do things to make their employer happy so they keep their job. And, even the non-employed ones are forced to meet the "standard of care" which had become treated all pain maximally.

You should be indicting the entire field. The entire field did it. But, where you are wrong is to think that doctors have the power to fight these huge interests when those interests are making billions. It doesn't work that way.
 

wrenhal

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#25
This tells me all I need to know. Between the opioids and meth crises in Oklahoma, this just proves that there is a large segment of Oklahomans that just want to check out of reality regularly. It also proves how much of a joke most of these marijuana "doctors" are.


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#26
This tells me all I need to know. Between the opioids and meth crises in Oklahoma, this just proves that there is a large segment of Oklahomans that just want to check out of reality regularly. It also proves how much of a joke most of these marijuana "doctors" are.


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We all like to blame others for our problems. We live a society expects all their needs and wants to be supplied by others. We are" addicted" to to that false idea.
 
Sep 6, 2012
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#27
This tells me all I need to know. Between the opioids and meth crises in Oklahoma, this just proves that there is a large segment of Oklahomans that just want to check out of reality regularly. It also proves how much of a joke most of these marijuana "doctors" are.


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Oh its a joke all right. You do not even have to put down what the ailment is on the paper. Hell they don't even check you out , they just sign it.
 

kaboy42

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#29
This tells me all I need to know. Between the opioids and meth crises in Oklahoma, this just proves that there is a large segment of Oklahomans that just want to check out of reality regularly. It also proves how much of a joke most of these marijuana "doctors" are.


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Saw this coming a million miles away.

Just call it what it is, move it to rec use and be done with it.


Oh, also... tax the everloving sh*t out of it.
 

kaboy42

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#31
Big pharma isn’t innocent they know what’s going on...
Big Pharma is also dumping "big money" in to pain management via therapeutic proteins as well. We've seen our contract biomanufacturing projects swing from 90%+ cancer related therapies to now about ~60% cancer related, 20-30% pain management related in the last 3 years.
 
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#33
Saw this coming a million miles away.

Just call it what it is, move it to rec use and be done with it.


Oh, also... tax the everloving sh*t out of it.
Exactly.

The doctors signing those scripts think the criminilization of marijuana is arcane & they're using the law, too, just like law enforcement's done for years on the other side.
 

jakeman

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#35
Saw this coming a million miles away.

Just call it what it is, move it to rec use and be done with it.


Oh, also... tax the everloving sh*t out of it.

Agreed, but I don't agree with the taxing.

This is medical MJ in name only. It's a rec law, but it isn't called that.

The price needs to stay well below the illegal price.

I never thought it should be legalized, I've always thought it should be decriminalized. Should be same as growing tomatoes or okra.

I don't smoke it, but they also need to address the firearm restrictions. If it's legal, it's legal. Shouldn't restrict a right because you exercise a legal privilege.
 

kaboy42

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#37
The illegal activity associated with illegal drugs affects us all.
But it wouldn't be illegal at that point. Full rec use, grow your own all you want, I'm talking buying from a dispensary... tax it double what cigarettes/alcohol is getting taxed. Hell, double the tax on cigarettes and alcohol.

I still wouldn't care.
 

wrenhal

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#38
Big pharma isn’t innocent they know what’s going on...
Big Pharma is also dumping "big money" in to pain management via therapeutic proteins as well. We've seen our contract biomanufacturing projects swing from 90%+ cancer related therapies to now about ~60% cancer related, 20-30% pain management related in the like the last 3 years.
What does that mean to laymen specifically?

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wrenhal

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#39
Saw this coming a million miles away.

Just call it what it is, move it to rec use and be done with it.


Oh, also... tax the everloving sh*t out of it.
If you tax it too much, the black market will continue to flourish.
I have friends in Colorado. They specifically know there's a massive black market and it's not just because of taxes it's because people don't want, or they go from, the stuff that's legally sold to wanting stuff that's stronger.

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NotOnTV

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#40
I have friends in Colorado. They specifically know there's a massive black market and it's not just because of taxes it's because people don't want, or they go from, the stuff that's legally sold to wanting stuff that's stronger.

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That's crazy! Don't they sell shatter and other concentrates in CO? Aren't some of the strains like 20+ percent THC? How strong do they need?