It's not video games, racism, or music....it's family

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Oct 30, 2007
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#21
The Second Amendment actually clearly says it exclusively referred to a military context. For over 200 years the federal courts unanimously determined that the Second Amendment concerns only the arming of the people in service to an organized state militia.
https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/gun-quotations-founding-fathers
This narrative is completely false. That's why the SCOTUS ruled that an individual has the right to bear arms. I would encourage you to study some of the quotes from the founding fathers of our country concerning the 2nd amendment. They made it quite clear that they intended for individuals to have the right to bear arms.
 
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kaboy42

Territorial Marshal
May 2, 2007
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#22
The Second Amendment actually clearly says it exclusively referred to a military context. For over 200 years the federal courts unanimously determined that the Second Amendment concerns only the arming of the people in service to an organized state militia.
Complete and utter bullsh*t. Some of the highest grade bullsh*t to ever be posted in the political forum on OP. You should be proud of this accomplishment. :thumbup:
 

StillwaterTownie

Federal Marshal
Jun 18, 2010
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#23
Many of those fathers are absentee already, and "non-violent" is a bit of a gray area.

Despite what some will say, we are not really throwing people in the hole for having a blunt in the ashtray. Usually it requires someone to be dealing in pretty good quantities, which means putting drugs into the hands of people who commit violent crimes in order to support their habits. I'm in favor of de-criminalizing pot, but lets not act like everyone in for a drug offense is some small time user.
Then what the hell explains why it's a FACT that Oklahoma is the most highly incarcerated place in the world? Lots of mothers are going to prison, too, which helps explain why so many grandparents are taking care of their grandchildren.
 
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StillwaterTownie

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Jun 18, 2010
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#24
Complete and utter bullsh*t. Some of the highest grade bullsh*t to ever be posted in the political forum on OP. You should be proud of this accomplishment. :thumbup:
One might wonder what founders would have thought of the mass shootings as they unfolded had they been brought back to live since this century began. Of course, you would likely think they would wonder why, oh, why hasn't a law been passed requiring everybody to be armed when they walk out their front doors. We already know Washington complained about the militia of his day:

“I am wearied to death all day with a variety of perplexing circumstances, disturbed at the conduct of the militia, whose behavior and want of discipline has done great injury to the other troops, who never had officers, except in a few instances, worth the bread they eat. In confidence I tell you that I never was in such an unhappy, divided state since I was born.” George Washington
 
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Oct 30, 2007
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#25
One might wonder what founders would have thought of the mass shootings as they unfolded had they been brought back to live since this century began. Of course, you would likely think they would wonder why, oh, why hasn't a law been passed requiring everybody to be armed when they walk out their front doors. We already know Washington complained about the militia of his day:

“I am wearied to death all day with a variety of perplexing circumstances, disturbed at the conduct of the militia, whose behavior and want of discipline has done great injury to the other troops, who never had officers, except in a few instances, worth the bread they eat. In confidence I tell you that I never was in such an unhappy, divided state since I was born.” George Washington
I'm sure they would be upset, and want to try to find a way to keep the mentally ill from possessing firearms. But I also have no doubt that they would still endorse the individual right to bear arms.

"I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787


“They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
 
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kaboy42

Territorial Marshal
May 2, 2007
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#26
One might wonder what founders would have thought of the mass shootings as they unfolded had they been brought back to live since this century began. Of course, you would likely think they would wonder why, oh, why hasn't a law been passed requiring everybody to be armed when they walk out their front doors. We already know Washington complained about the militia of his day:

“I am wearied to death all day with a variety of perplexing circumstances, disturbed at the conduct of the militia, whose behavior and want of discipline has done great injury to the other troops, who never had officers, except in a few instances, worth the bread they eat. In confidence I tell you that I never was in such an unhappy, divided state since I was born.” George Washington
This. vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv. Their forethought put in to the 2nd Amendment is clearly beyond your comprehension.

I'm sure they would be upset, and want to try to find a way to keep the mentally ill from possessing firearms. But I also have no doubt that they would still endorse the the individual right to bear arms.

"I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787


“They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
 

CaliforniaCowboy

Federal Marshal
Oct 15, 2003
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#28
One might wonder what founders would have thought of the mass shootings as they unfolded had they been brought back to live since this century began. Of course, you would likely think they would wonder why, oh, why hasn't a law been passed requiring everybody to be armed when they walk out their front doors. We already know Washington complained about the militia of his day:

“I am wearied to death all day with a variety of perplexing circumstances, disturbed at the conduct of the militia, whose behavior and want of discipline has done great injury to the other troops, who never had officers, except in a few instances, worth the bread they eat. In confidence I tell you that I never was in such an unhappy, divided state since I was born.” George Washington
The founders would wonder what happened to religion (i.e., no wonder morals are dropping), and wonder why all the "spare the rod" BS

Washington complained ONLY that his military was not properly trained and disciplined, not that they were armed.
 

StillwaterTownie

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Jun 18, 2010
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#31
This. vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv. Their forethought put in to the 2nd Amendment is clearly beyond your comprehension.
What America’s gun fanatics won’t tell you
Alexander Hamilton said a “well-regulated militia” would help safeguard the freedom of the new republic because it would make the creation of a professional, mercenary army “unnecessary.”
Can we please stop pretending that the Second Amendment contains an unfettered right for everyone to buy a gun? It doesn’t, and it never has. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/w...zyQKG-gx7RIB5a9i_L5kZNP6r7g1YrjVbKQEmhffITSF8
 

#1 Pokes Fan

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Mar 27, 2012
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Wishing I was in Stillwater
#32
What America’s gun fanatics won’t tell you
Alexander Hamilton said a “well-regulated militia” would help safeguard the freedom of the new republic because it would make the creation of a professional, mercenary army “unnecessary.”
Can we please stop pretending that the Second Amendment contains an unfettered right for everyone to buy a gun? It doesn’t, and it never has. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/w...zyQKG-gx7RIB5a9i_L5kZNP6r7g1YrjVbKQEmhffITSF8
If you choose to not participate in exercising your Second Amendment right, so be it. Just so you don't infringe upon mine.

 
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kaboy42

Territorial Marshal
May 2, 2007
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#33
What America’s gun fanatics won’t tell you
Alexander Hamilton said a “well-regulated militia” would help safeguard the freedom of the new republic because it would make the creation of a professional, mercenary army “unnecessary.”
Can we please stop pretending that the Second Amendment contains an unfettered right for everyone to buy a gun? It doesn’t, and it never has. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/w...zyQKG-gx7RIB5a9i_L5kZNP6r7g1YrjVbKQEmhffITSF8
Bullsh*t... and just some random cat's uninformed, bullsh*t opinion because he's "scared" of guns. Proves nothing and I can post thousands of opinion article links that rebuts this guys opinion and weak attempt at what our forefathers meant by a "well-regulated militia".

The Supreme Court and in large part, the full American voter base, says otherwise. NOT just the NRA.
 

wrenhal

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Aug 11, 2011
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#34
This. vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv. Their forethought put in to the 2nd Amendment is clearly beyond your comprehension.
What America’s gun fanatics won’t tell you
Alexander Hamilton said a “well-regulated militia” would help safeguard the freedom of the new republic because it would make the creation of a professional, mercenary army “unnecessary.”
Can we please stop pretending that the Second Amendment contains an unfettered right for everyone to buy a gun? It doesn’t, and it never has. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/w...zyQKG-gx7RIB5a9i_L5kZNP6r7g1YrjVbKQEmhffITSF8
Have you read The Federalist papers? I believe it's number 6 that has to do with this topic. It would be a good read for you. Instead of an opinion article about what this person perceives, you can read it directly from one of the people that was there when it was written.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
 
Oct 30, 2007
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#35
What America’s gun fanatics won’t tell you
Alexander Hamilton said a “well-regulated militia” would help safeguard the freedom of the new republic because it would make the creation of a professional, mercenary army “unnecessary.”
Can we please stop pretending that the Second Amendment contains an unfettered right for everyone to buy a gun? It doesn’t, and it never has. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/w...zyQKG-gx7RIB5a9i_L5kZNP6r7g1YrjVbKQEmhffITSF8
To understand that quote, you have to understand what the word "militia" actually means. The word militia means a force raised from the civil population. The founding fathers said many times that they wanted the militia (the civilian population) to have more power than the standing armies. Read through some of these quotes for reference.

"I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers."
- George Mason


"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country."
- James Madison


A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves…and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms… "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
- Richard Henry Lee


"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops."
- Noah Webster


"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined.... The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun."
- Patrick Henry


"This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty.... The right of self defense is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction."
- St. George Tucker


"What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
- Thomas Jefferson


"Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of."
- James Madison


"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."
- Samuel Adams


"To disarm the people...s the most effectual way to enslave them."
- George Mason


"The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
- Thomas Jefferson
 

Cowboy2U

Federal Marshal
Mar 31, 2008
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#37
Very good post and I am sure you are sincere. But your reaction on Saturday in another thread was that you were sick as hell of the immediate response to shootings being tied to the race of the shooter and second to the victims. You said the media was EXCITED about San Barnardino when the word was it was white supremacists. You also stated there has to be a focus on how shootings are reported and treated BY THE MEDIA THEMSELVES and claimed the media always says terrorism when it is brown people and mental health with white people.

Some of what you said is really a lot of deflection isn't it? Trump has several times said he would take action but once again he stated hatred pulls the trigger, not guns. I have yet to see you or anyone who supports Trump to focus on GUNS. This last capitalized word is my word. The other capitalized words above are yours. Focusing on the fact the shooters are fatherless is just another deflection isn't it? Trump talking about video games and mental illness is a deflection isn't it?

It is likely this forum is populated by people who are 99% male and 99% white. The fact is the shooters are males and are white and the more recent targets often are people of color. Trump actually made it easier for those who are mentally ill to get guns in 2017 when he rescinded Obama's order that made it harder for such people to get guns. But of course studies of countries around the world prove that it isn't mental illness, video games, men without jobs or girl friends, fatherless young men, etc. that are the main problem. Those are all deflections. No other country in the world has as big a problem as we have because they don't have an NRA that has made the Republican party into a wholly-owned subsidiary coupled with a President who has a split personality - TELEPROMPTER TRUMP and TWITTER TRUMP. The problem is A BOUGHT OFF REPUBLICAN PARTY, A LYING PRESIDENT, AND MOSCOW MITCH AS THE LEADER OF THE SENATE. IT IS GUNS. Twitter Trump, Moscow Mitch, and the NRA will continue to ignore the problem. They will do nothing, even though every sane person in this country knows where the focus should be.
:poo:
 

StillwaterTownie

Federal Marshal
Jun 18, 2010
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#39
This. vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv. Their forethought put in to the 2nd Amendment is clearly beyond your comprehension.
In other words, Supreme Court Justice Scalia was all out WRONG when he wrote:

"Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited. From Blackstone through the 19th-century cases, commentators and courts routinely explained that the right was not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.

Nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms."​