Is OSU the new KSU

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Aug 22, 2006
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#21
Well, really the only reason for me is that he hasn't given one s*** about defense, even when the Big 12 was pivoting towards these "high-powered air raid" spread offenses. He never really exhibited an urgency to develop a defense that could adapt to that change. This has been a running issue basically his entire OSU head coaching career.

Also, his non-dedication to flipping the Bedlam script.

Look, I'm not here to parse out all of the things I've already said in the past, and are there if you want to actually go searching for them. I've accepted Gundy's here for another two to three years at least, and I simply support the players before the coaches.

Keep in mind, I did give him a bit of credit for the Gleeson hire. It was an interesting one that might actually turn out pretty well, compared to "Bombs Away" Yurcich. We shall see.
What exactly are your expectations for the defense? It's a pretty vague definition, he replaced Glenn Spencer who graduated a lot of talent with him, he really liked Glenn Spencer. We have played our best games in Bedlam, with the exception of 2 or 3 years under Gundy we have been within a score in Bedlam. I hate it as much as anyone but OU spends more, and gets more because of their tradition in football, they have 30k more people buying tickets than OSU has its a fact. They're a blue blood program. I'm not saying lower your expectations just look at it realistically, we should win bedlam 25% of the time for me that would be an acceptable amount. I want to win 100% of the time.
 

CTeamPoke

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#22
Well, really the only reason for me is that he hasn't given one s*** about defense, even when the Big 12 was pivoting towards these "high-powered air raid" spread offenses. He never really exhibited an urgency to develop a defense that could adapt to that change. This has been a running issue basically his entire OSU head coaching career.

Also, his non-dedication to flipping the Bedlam script.

Look, I'm not here to parse out all of the things I've already said in the past, and are there if you want to actually go searching for them. I've accepted Gundy's here for another two to three years at least, and I simply support the players before the coaches.

Keep in mind, I did give him a bit of credit for the Gleeson hire. It was an interesting one that might actually turn out pretty well, compared to "Bombs Away" Yurcich. We shall see.
Very interesting takes.
 
Nov 30, 2010
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#23
Since Gundy took over OSU is 6-5 vs. K-State (winning record btw).

Conference Records:
OSU: 72-48 (0.600)
KSU: 53-43 (0.552) (threw out Ron Prince just to be nice).

This even includes Gundy's first season AND throws out Ron Prince (who went 1-1 against OSU).

Just for funsies I decided to ALSO look at how each team did against the Big 12 North for the years it was still around during Gundy's tenure (05-10). In 6 seasons OSU had more wins against the Big 12 North than K-State did. Despite K-State playing a total of 12 more Big 12 North Opponents.

8 Consensus All Americans for Gundy

1 Consensus All American for Snyder during the same time period.

Short end of the stick lol. The purple has been eating your brain.
I sse what you did there by limiting the narrative to what HCMG has done, as opposed to how both coaches did overall. True HCMG is 6-5 against K-State, but LHCBS is 13-7 against the Pokes. Also not sure how the Pokes can have played 24 more conference games when the Cats have been in the league far longer.
 

CTeamPoke

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#24
I sse what you did there by limiting the narrative to what HCMG has done, as opposed to how both coaches did overall. True HCMG is 6-5 against K-State, but LHCBS is 13-7 against the Pokes. Also not sure how the Pokes can have played 24 more conference games when the Cats have been in the league far longer.
He took out the Ron Prince years.

I wish we had a run of seasons like K-State did from 1993-2003.

Although we've come pretty close over the last 10 seasons but our fans are way too short sighted and focused on the two bad years instead of the 8 good ones.
 
Sep 23, 2018
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#25
What exactly are your expectations for the defense? It's a pretty vague definition, he replaced Glenn Spencer who graduated a lot of talent with him, he really liked Glenn Spencer. We have played our best games in Bedlam, with the exception of 2 or 3 years under Gundy we have been within a score in Bedlam. I hate it as much as anyone but OU spends more, and gets more because of their tradition in football, they have 30k more people buying tickets than OSU has its a fact. They're a blue blood program. I'm not saying lower your expectations just look at it realistically, we should win bedlam 25% of the time for me that would be an acceptable amount. I want to win 100% of the time.
50% of Bedlam would be perfectly fine with me (comparatively speaking, of course).

As to your defense inquiry, we've almost *never* had a good secondary. Something to counter the spread offenses I mentioned in my previous post. That's what infuriates me so much. The writing has been on the wall for a long time now, and yet, we've always recruited on the offensive side of the ball because, instead of *stopping the other team from scoring*, Gundy chose to have a high-scoring offense as a form of defense. We never recruit good safeties and corners *consistently* (keyword).

I say this as we watch Mike Boynton come in and, willy nilly, throw out offers to five-star players like it's nothing. But you know what? It's something. It's working, in terms of getting our name out there. "Oh, maybe if I go to OSU, I might actually get to play a lot", instead of concluding, BEFORE EVEN DOING ANYTHING, that we don't have a chance to get any given recruit. We are in a position to potentially get a five-star added to the 2019 class, AND THEN we might get two for the 2020 class. He is basically throwing all of Gundy's excuses right into his face and saying, "nah, bro, that's some BS". For crap's sake, Boynton threw out an offer to James Wiseman, the #1 recruit. It didn't go far, but at least he's shooting for the stars! He's making a concerted effort to make us better.

It annoys me that so many people, including many on this board, sell OSU so goddamn short. "Well, we just don't have the resources and we're little brother and blah blah freakin' blah". Ok, then go immerse yourself in the pathetic musings of "ReMeMbEr HoW wE uSeD tO bE?!?!?!?". I don't care about how we used to be, compared to now. I care about what the problems are, how do we fix them, and how do we become even better than we are. Some people have settled for the current mode of operating. I haven't. I want constant improvement.
 
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Nov 30, 2010
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#26
He took out the Ron Prince years.

I wish we had a run of seasons like K-State did from 1993-2003.

Although we've come pretty close over the last 10 seasons but our fans are way too short sighted and focused on the two bad years instead of the 8 good ones.
Both programs have been successful in their own rights, when comparing the most recent coaches to their predecessors. For me, that is where the comparison stops since historically one was arguably the worse program in college football.
 
Aug 22, 2006
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#27
2 things you can't compare basketball to football, it's not equal nowhere even close. Second we have probably put more DBs in the NFL in recent history than any other position. I understand your frustrations but it's not as you make it.

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Jul 9, 2011
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#28
50% of Bedlam would be perfectly fine with me (comparatively speaking, of course).

As to your defense inquiry, we've almost *never* had a good secondary. Something to counter the spread offenses I mentioned in my previous post. That's what infuriates me so much. The writing has been on the wall for a long time now, and yet, we've always recruited on the offensive side of the ball because, instead of *stopping the other team from scoring*, Gundy chose to have a high-scoring offense as a form of defense. We never recruit good safeties and corners *consistently* (keyword).

I say this as we watch Mike Boynton come in and, willy nilly, throw out offers to five-star players like it's nothing. But you know what? It's something. It's working, in terms of getting our name out there. "Oh, maybe if I go to OSU, I might actually get to play a lot", instead of concluding, BEFORE EVEN DOING ANYTHING, that we don't have a chance to get any given recruit. We are in a position to potentially get a five-star added to the 2019 class, AND THEN we might get two for the 2020 class. He is basically throwing all of Gundy's excuses right into his face and saying, "nah, bro, that's some BS". For crap's sake, Boynton threw out an offer to James Wiseman, the #1 recruit. It didn't go far, but at least he's shooting for the stars! He's making a concerted effort to make us better.

It annoys me that so many people, including many on this board, sell OSU so goddamn short. "Well, we just don't have the resources and we're little brother and blah blah freakin' blah". Ok, then go immerse yourself in the pathetic musings of "ReMeMbEr HoW wE uSeD tO bE?!?!?!?'. I don't care about how we used to be, compared to now. I care about what the problems are, how do we fix them, and how to we become even better than we are. Some people have settled for the current mode of operating. I haven't. I want constant improvement.



Football and basketball:

- two completely different sports and recruiting situations
- two widely different histories and traditions at OSU

Not comparable.

I think YOU need to quit selling our recent football results so GD short. We have been one of the best programs in the conference and a top 25 program nationally. We have a down season (just as OU and Alabama have had in the last 10 years or so) and you guys act like HCMG hasn't done anything. There are over 100 of the total of 129 D1 football programs that would love to have the record we have had over the past 10 years.

We have come a looong way. Yes we did spend a ton of $ on facilities - but guess what, so did most other Power 5 programs and our facilities are now not much above average, if not average. We were that far behind. We have a relatively small fan base, a beautiful but relatively small stadium and a relatively limited budget compared to the other top programs, and there is not a thing HCMG can do about any of those but recruit the best players he can and win as many games as he can.
 

CPTNQUIRK

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Nov 20, 2006
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#29
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That being said, if we can't do much better than what just happened this past season, then Gundy needs to go.

(Gundy has needed to go for a long time now, for reasons independent of last season, but that's beside the point of your schpiel.)
What makes you think we won’t be better than last year? All indications are that we will be back to at least a 9 or 10 win season.

As far as Gundy needing to be gone? :lol::lol::lol: That’s ridiculous.
 

Philranger

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#30
I sse what you did there by limiting the narrative to what HCMG has done, as opposed to how both coaches did overall. True HCMG is 6-5 against K-State, but LHCBS is 13-7 against the Pokes. Also not sure how the Pokes can have played 24 more conference games when the Cats have been in the league far longer.
TL;DR for you. K-State was good in the 90s when OU, UT (after 97), and OSU were on probation and/or terrible. After Mike Gundy took over OSU left K-State in the dust.

I did only look at the times that Gundy and Snyder have been at their respective schools because isn't that what we're looking at? The whole point was that K-State was getting a better deal in regards to money, we didn't start spending all the money until Gundy became coach. Hence the comparison.

Should I bring up Snyder's losing record in bowl games?
 
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PontiacPoke717

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#31
Debating similarities and differences with Kansas State is an interesting topic. You can argue it both ways. See the annual win total chart below and the 10-year moving average for the on-the-field results. I do think Gundy is trying to do things to avoid us declining like KSU did. I do not buy the argument that last season is evidence of a slide. It could be an inflection point, but we won't know for a while.

View attachment 68200
Right, bad years happen to most non-blueblood programs. Even though we had a disappointing seasons, I can pick out many positives moving into the 2019 season. Hell, FSU is just what, 4 years removed from a playoff birth and missed the postseason for the first time in 30-something years! Just one of the many examples - it's part of being in the second tier of programs.
 
Sep 23, 2018
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#32
There are over 100 of the total of 129 D1 football programs that would love to have the record we have had over the past 10 years.
And last I checked, none of them are my school. I'm one of the schools that wants to have the record Ohio State, or Alabama, or Clemson, or even OU has had. Why is that asking so much?
 

PontiacPoke717

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#33
50% of Bedlam would be perfectly fine with me (comparatively speaking, of course).

As to your defense inquiry, we've almost *never* had a good secondary. Something to counter the spread offenses I mentioned in my previous post. That's what infuriates me so much. The writing has been on the wall for a long time now, and yet, we've always recruited on the offensive side of the ball because, instead of *stopping the other team from scoring*, Gundy chose to have a high-scoring offense as a form of defense. We never recruit good safeties and corners *consistently* (keyword).

I say this as we watch Mike Boynton come in and, willy nilly, throw out offers to five-star players like it's nothing. But you know what? It's something. It's working, in terms of getting our name out there. "Oh, maybe if I go to OSU, I might actually get to play a lot", instead of concluding, BEFORE EVEN DOING ANYTHING, that we don't have a chance to get any given recruit. We are in a position to potentially get a five-star added to the 2019 class, AND THEN we might get two for the 2020 class. He is basically throwing all of Gundy's excuses right into his face and saying, "nah, bro, that's some BS". For crap's sake, Boynton threw out an offer to James Wiseman, the #1 recruit. It didn't go far, but at least he's shooting for the stars! He's making a concerted effort to make us better.

It annoys me that so many people, including many on this board, sell OSU so goddamn short. "Well, we just don't have the resources and we're little brother and blah blah freakin' blah". Ok, then go immerse yourself in the pathetic musings of "ReMeMbEr HoW wE uSeD tO bE?!?!?!?". I don't care about how we used to be, compared to now. I care about what the problems are, how do we fix them, and how do we become even better than we are. Some people have settled for the current mode of operating. I haven't. I want constant improvement.
Feel better?

Just click this link to see how many 4 and 5* offers Gundy and company threw out to JUST the 2019 class.

https://247sports.com/college/oklahoma-state/Season/2019-Football/Offers/
 
Sep 23, 2018
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#34
Also, I would argue that basketball recruiting is a lot more difficult than football recruiting, strictly based on the fact that you have the exact same number of D1 schools all vying for the best players, and basketball, specifically, has a smaller player pool to choose from.

In fact, given there are a lot of D1 bball schools that don't have football programs, it is more difficult. So please don't use that argument. Recruiting is recruiting.
 
Aug 22, 2006
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#35
Also, I would argue that basketball recruiting is a lot more difficult than football recruiting, strictly based on the fact that you have the exact same number of D1 schools all vying for the best players, and basketball, specifically, has a smaller player pool to choose from.

In fact, given there are a lot of D1 bball schools that don't have football programs, it is more difficult. So please don't use that argument. Recruiting is recruiting.
Except each school is generally only recruiting 3 players, not 25. There is AAU ball being played more than high school ball so there is a much larger and easier way to evaluate. It's not harder nor is it even remotely close to the same.
 
Sep 23, 2018
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#37
Except each school is generally only recruiting 3 players, not 25. There is AAU ball being played more than high school ball so there is a much larger and easier way to evaluate. It's not harder nor is it even remotely close to the same.
Right. Four players for a 12-13 man team, which is roughly 33%. (Basketball)

25 players for a 65-75 man team? Also roughly 33%ish. (Football)

So, by proportion, they're about the same.
 

Philranger

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#40
Right. Four players for a 12-13 man team, which is roughly 33%. (Basketball)

25 players for a 65-75 man team? Also roughly 33%ish. (Football)

So, by proportion, they're about the same.
Yeah but it's still 4 dudes compared to 25. Percentages be damned.

Also consider that in 2019 there are 126 basketball recruits that are 4* or better vs. 385 football ones.

That would allow 31 baskeball teams to recruit only 4* (assuming 4 per team). Compare to football which would allow only 15 teams to fill up on 4* recruits. You need 6 times as many players in football with only 3 times more recruits than basketball.

Not to say that our recruiting shouldn't better than it is, but come on dude.
 
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