If Football Is Cancelled

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Rack

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Safety is a fallacy, eh? I don't know where you live, but go to a large medical center in your area. Go to the COVID ward. Visit a COVID patient. Without a mask. Ask the patient to take their mask off. Invite them to cough on you. Stand close when they do it. Do all that and you'll convince me safety is just a fallacy and risk is just a part of life. You'll convince me that you're no more worried about COVID-19 than you a car wreck or violence or breathing pollution, etc. Go ahead, convince me. Take my challenge.
I go to the large medical center where I work every day and do my job, I haven't missed a single day of work due to Covid-19. No I do not work in the covid ward but I don't go into the burn unit either. Your challenge is arrogant thing to say and really doesn't earn you any respect...No one would do that with any type of illness including covid, the flu, or a even a nasty cold. I don't step in front of ongoing traffic (although far more dangerous than your challenge) either. Your little "challenge" has nothing to do with reality and is absurd. Just because we don't constantly live in fear falling off a cliff I wouldn't say go on purpose and step off a cliff to prove to me you don't fear it...FEAR to the magnitude people have of this thing stops you/us in our tracks, it makes us into less than we should be, innovations is what is needed. When cliffs are in the way we build guard rails so that we can safety look at the view, or we build hang gliders so we can ride the wind, or we build bridges over them. Covid is however less is a cliff and more a river in flood stage.. When we have a flood we deal with it, when we have a virus we deal with it...just as we are, bigtime.
 
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CocoCincinnati

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Sure, because you're smarter and have more information available to you than all the experts and consults and university presidents and provosts who made that decision. Incidentally, the Ivy League did the same. Are you going to claim that Harvard, Yale, etc. are stupid?

This is a perfect example of confirmation bias, if it doesn't fit what you already think it must be rejected.
There are plenty of schools that made the decision to play though. How is saying those experts, consultants, provosts and University presidents made a bad decision any different than somebody saying the big 10 made a bad decision?
 

PontiacPoke717

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Because students don't smash into each other at high velocities in the classroom, generally?

Sitting in classroom is an apple.

Tackling a running back coming at you full steam is an orange.

This ain't rocket surgery, people.
So running into people at high rates of speed spreads the virus even if everyone running into each other is tested negative?

Mass gatherings of people is known to be the common cause of the "spread"... and when more than one person not wearing a mask (who is positive, even if asymptomatic) comes in close contact with another person testing negative who is also not wearing a mask, that usually is THE common cause of the spread, correct?

It really doesn't matter what two people do in close contact if both are testing negative. Not sure I understand your argument here.

You really expect students outside a classroom to not talk to each other out in the hallway while waiting for the other class to clear out? Whats more risky... a campus full of 20k+ people or a field full of 250 personnel that are constantly monitored?
 

Rack

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Sure, because you're smarter and have more information available to you than all the experts and consults and university presidents and provosts who made that decision. Incidentally, the Ivy League did the same. Are you going to claim that Harvard, Yale, etc. are stupid?

This is a perfect example of confirmation bias, if it doesn't fit what you already think it must be rejected.
No it's because I'm less of a p*ssy. They are living in fear of lawsuits and a virus that is manageable and has a very low death rate...so low that when it was evident they collectively decided they needed to start other scare tactics...because death rate was waning as an effective one. Btw, I need to go get a blood test because I'm nearly certain I already had this thing back in February. Also, I've not been hiding in my house but rather supporting businesses which is the best way to support health and safety. So while I've not sucked in someone elses covid, I have been on 100% full planes (4 of them), traveled to nearly 10 states, and lived my freaking life, safely for myself and others and without fear. This is how we get past this thing, we wear our mask clean our hands, stay clear of the elderly or at risk, and live our lives without fear otherwise.
 
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RxCowboy

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There are plenty of schools that made the decision to play though. How is staying those experts, consultants, provosts and University presidents made a bad decision any different than somebody saying the big 10 made a bad decision?
Only time will tell if it is the right decision or not. What's for sure, delaying the season until the Spring is the more cautious approach. My issue is with @Rack saying outrageous things like "safety is a fallacy" and the Big 10 presidents "made the wrong decision", things he can't possibly know.
 

CocoCincinnati

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Only time will tell if it is the right decision or not. What's for sure, delaying the season until the Spring is the more cautious approach. My issue is with @Rack saying outrageous things like "safety is a fallacy" and the Big 10 presidents "made the wrong decision", things he can't possibly know.
Fair enough. I do think you are way smarter than me on this topic but I hope you are wrong in this instance. :cool:
 

RxCowboy

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So running into people at high rates of speed spreads the virus even if everyone running into each other is tested negative?

Mass gatherings of people is known to be the common cause of the "spread"... and when more than one person not wearing a mask (who is positive, even if asymptomatic) comes in close contact with another person testing negative who is also not wearing a mask, that usually is THE common cause of the spread, correct?

It really doesn't matter what two people do in close contact if both are testing negative. Not sure I understand your argument here.

You really expect students outside a classroom to not talk to each other out in the hallway while waiting for the other class to clear out? Whats more risky... a campus full of 20k+ people or a field full of 250 personnel that are constantly monitored?
From the FDA coronavirus test fact sheet:
1597326199441.png


Running into people at high rates of speed damages blood vessels. You need one of three things to form a blood clot, called Virchow's triad: vessel damage, coagulopathy, or stasis. COVID-19 appears to cause coagulopathy. Add vessel damage to it from repeated collisions and you have a recipe for thrombosis. How do you prevent vessel damage from collisions?

You've just spelled out the whole "bubble" theory of Nebraska and Michigan. It's nice and fine when football players are the only students on campus and they aren't going to class and you can pretty tightly control their movements. But what happens when you add another 20-50k students to the mix? Then you add travel to games... how many games has MLB postponed already? I mean, the Cardinals can't even get on the field right now.

1597326241083.png
 

RxCowboy

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No it's because I'm less of a p*ssy. They are living in fear of lawsuits and a virus that is manageable and has a very low death rate...so low that when it was evident they collectively decided they needed to start other scare tactics...because death rate was waning as an effective one. Btw, I need to go get a blood test because I'm nearly certain I already had this thing back in February. Also, I've not been hiding in my house but rather supporting businesses which is the best way to support health and safety. So while I've not sucked in someone elses covid, I have been on 100% full planes (4 of them), traveled to nearly 10 states, and lived my freaking life, safely for myself and others and without fear. This is how we get past this thing, we wear our mask clean our hands, stay clear of the elderly or at risk, and live our lives without fear otherwise.
Congrats! You just defended the Ford Pinto decision!

Mister Less of a Pausie, take my challenge, show me how much Less of a Pausie you are! Safety is a fallacy, after all!
 

RxCowboy

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I go to the large medical center where I work every day and do my job, I haven't missed a single day of work due to Covid-19. No I don't not work in the covid ward but I don't go into the burn unit either. Your challenge is arrogant thing to say and really doesn't earn you any respect...No one would do that with any type of illness including covid, the flu, or a even a nasty cold. I don't step in front of ongoing traffic (although far more dangerous than your challenge) either. Your little "challenge" has nothing to do with reality and is absurd. Just because we don't constantly live in fear falling off a cliff I wouldn't say go on purpose and step off a cliff to prove to me you don't fear it...FEAR to the magnitude people have of this thing stops you/us in our tracks, it makes us into less than we should be, innovations is what is needed. When cliffs are in the way we build guard rails so that we can safety look at the view, or we build hang gliders so we can ride the wind, or we build bridges over them. Covid is however less is a cliff and more a river in flood stage.. When we have a flood we deal with it, when we have a virus we deal with it...just as we are, bigtime.
If safety is a fallacy then why is my challenge arrogant? Back up what you're saying, is it a fallacy or not?
 

RxCowboy

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The McDonalds where I lived never closed, at least not the drive through, walmart never closed, the meat packing plants didn't close. Once again, not saying that there should or should not be a season, just saying the decision should be put in the hands of the ones taking the risk. College football is a business decision for most of the kids in D1, whether it is buying them tuition or a shot at the nfl. Let them make the decision, and see where we are.
heh

No, I'm sorry, but that's like saying "well, just let the drivers decide whether or not they want to take the risks on the Ford Pinto". The universities have presidents for a reason, and the university presidents are there to make major decisions like this. Universities have no small amount of liability at stake here.
 

RxCowboy

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Thats the great thing, i dont have to convince you, you aren't the one taking the risk. Also dont get me wrong if there is no college football season i will be sad but it is way down on my list of concerns right now. Slightly higher on my list of concerns is people losing their choice to take risks for large rewards. Why do we act like college football puts people at any higher risk for covid than working a line at a restaurant or a meat packing plant? As I said lay out the risk, tell the players all the steps you are taking to mitigate those risks, and give them a redshirt year if they don’t want to risk it. If you have enough players across the league then let them play.
You take a position in a discussion and then say "I have no burden to convince you."

Okay, fine, but that shows the weakness of your position, you're unwilling to try to back it up.

Why do we act like college football puts people at any higher risk for covid than working a line at a restaurant or a meat packing plant?
Why do we act like meat packing and college football are both necessities we can't live without?

We have to eat. This is an apple.

We do not have to be entertained. This is an orange.
 

Rack

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Congrats! You just defended the Ford Pinto decision!

Mister Less of a Pausie, take my challenge, show me how much Less of a Pausie you are! Safety is a fallacy, after all!
Context is everything...You are reading it wrong.
"Especially as that "safety" is mostly a falsehood and fallacy for us all because if Covid doesn't get us, a car wreak, violence, breathing in pollution, or just some other weird accident just might....no matter how much we mitigate life's dangerous world none of us get out of this thing alive..."

I'm making a point in a macro world that is focused on the micro of Covid at this time. Meanwhile other things kill every day in all sorts of ways. I'm not saying we shouldn't focus, at all, on this new micro problem as well...but that we may, perhaps, be SO focused on it that we ignore the very problems that the focus causes in it's wake... Like walking through a forest of Redwoods and admiring them so much that you miss the cliff you are walking toward and fall to your death. I do make some crazy sounding statements to people in your world view that seem to THINK this is the end of all time and that we should totally lock down and cower in fear (I know, hyperbole and drama...sorry)...

I just challenge you to take a deep breath, maybe a break from all you read and this board that you post on God knows how many times a day... and understand that Covid isn't the end of the world...just because you are so laser focused on it doesn't mean the rest of us have to be with every waking breath... This doesn't mean not to focus at all...ONLY that we all should be more aware of the fact that other things may matter even more in life like mental health, the massive economic risk we are taking, canceling life due to a low rate of death virus, and taking care of our friends and family in this crisis we find ourselves in. It can be debated that all these things are just as, if not more, dangerous than is a virus that is also dangerous even with it's low death rate.

I know you are a very smart person, but it's difficult for me to understand why you cannot see this responsible argument as responsible in your world....when it makes 100% perfect sense in mine.

Btw, my own stinking brother very much took your covid challenge when he slept with his wife who had it every night...As a result, he got it, survived it, and has 0 after effects from it. His Adult kids very much did the same by hanging around them without mask and just going about life as normal as most folks are in their very Rural area, got it, got over it and now have the antibodies. I spoke to him yesterday as he was driving the round bailer back to the barn after finishing up cutting hay in the field. If my wife got it from her students as she goes back to work today in the classroom, I would honestly likely do the same. So really, just stop with your challange, it's a silly premise.
 
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Sep 22, 2011
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heh

No, I'm sorry, but that's like saying "well, just let the drivers decide whether or not they want to take the risks on the Ford Pinto". The universities have presidents for a reason, and the university presidents are there to make major decisions like this. Universities have no small amount of liability at stake here.
To use your analogy it would be like telling a person at the dealership, here is a ford pinto, it’s gas tank sometimes explodes, and here is another car that is slightly more expensive, you be an adult and make the best decision for you. Once again, i dont care if they all choose to not play, but if they all look at the risk and choose to play, to me that is their decision.
 

RxCowboy

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To use your analogy it would be like telling a person at the dealership, here is a ford pinto, it’s gas tank sometimes explodes, and here is another car that is slightly more expensive, you be an adult and make the best decision for you. Once again, i dont care if they all choose to not play, but if they all look at the risk and choose to play, to me that is their decision.
But you shouldn't be selling exploding cars, you should instead be fixing the gas tank. The choice between an exploding car and a non-exploding car shouldn't be a choice that should be offered.
 
Sep 29, 2011
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I've read most of the posts in this thread with great interest - especially those defending or arguing for the decision to play, and those either expressing caution or opposing the decision to play. Both sides have valid arguments, and both sides have offered silly arguments.

But the one argument that I take most issue with is "the players can assess the risk and decide for themselves" (or several iterations thereof) as a reason to either play or not play the season. That's just silly and reflects flawed reasoning.

Here's why. Can anyone argue that if given the opportunity and without Covid safety rules a school could fill both sidelines, the press box, the stands and parking lot full of tailgaters without anyone exercising social distancing or wearing a mask? And if that were to take place, can anyone argue there wouldn't likely be major outbreak to follow? Which gets us back to the point. If we base all of our decisions (with respect to Covid) on individuals making their own decisions and assessing and accepting their own risk, we'd be headed for a disaster.

So, the decision to play really isn't about individual risks, it's about social responsibility and can we, as a school still hold a sporting event without unduly risking the health of the participants, students, fans and all their communities and without unnecessarily risking a broader spread of Covid.

I can't convince myself one way or another what schools should do. I can't reasonably fault any decision as long as safety and the potential spread of the virus is the primary concern.
 
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