How is Oklahoma doing as a state?

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steross

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#82
Wow...this is a beautiful beach. And the water looks almost tropical. I haven't seen a stretch of Pacific beach like this north of Mexico. Would you care to share with us where this sliver of paradise is?
Pretty far south of Mexico.

Port Macquarie, Australia.

My dog chasing her ball early in the morning that we left. She isn't too impressed with Oklahoma weather, or walks on a leash.
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oks10

Territorial Marshal
Sep 9, 2007
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#83
Pretty far south of Mexico.

Port Macquarie, Australia.

My dog chasing her ball early in the morning that we left. She isn't too impressed with Oklahoma weather, or walks on a leash.
View attachment 74540 View attachment 74541
I'm laughing thinking about how much your dog must be pissed at you... lol. (Mostly because my dog definitely didn't approve of us getting another dog, and having a kid, and moving to a new house...The stares she gives us sometimes...)
 

steross

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#85
Much is made of the number of people who choose to leave California and the primary, but not only reason given is the cost of living. With a population of around 40 million, the number leaving is merely a drop in the bucket. What isn't often reported is the fact that many of those moving into the state are young, well-educated, ambitious high-earners who are anxious to make their mark in the world's 5th largest economy. Not a bad trade. Kind of like Oklahoma...right?
Of course, you are asking this question right in the middle of a tech sector driven economic boom and a time when energy is depressed. Reverse those fortunes and you will see the reverse. There is an ebb and flow to this stuff.
 
Feb 7, 2007
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#86
Of course, you are asking this question right in the middle of a tech sector driven economic boom and a time when energy is depressed. Reverse those fortunes and you will see the reverse. There is an ebb and flow to this stuff.
Energy is depressed? US production is at an all time high. Prices are down a bit but if that is the only criteria then what 2 years ago prices were high and production was high. Must have missed the part where OK was a complete utopia.
 

steross

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#87
Energy is depressed? US production is at an all time high. Prices are down a bit but if that is the only criteria then what 2 years ago prices were high and production was high. Must have missed the part where OK was a complete utopia.
You missed that part because nobody said it. The reason you added that nonsense is to cover the fact that you didn’t really have a valid point against what I actually said. Yes, energy is depressed. Energy is the worst performing sector of our economy over the past ten years. Pulling up a factoid about production levels and ignoring or being ignorant of the other factors doesn’t change the truth.
 
Feb 7, 2007
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#88
You missed that part because nobody said it. The reason you added that nonsense is to cover the fact that you didn’t really have a valid point against what I actually said. Yes, energy is depressed. Energy is the worst performing sector of our economy over the past ten years. Pulling up a factoid about production levels and ignoring or being ignorant of the other factors doesn’t change the truth.
You said if you "Reverse those fortunes and you will see the reverse". There is exactly 0% chance OK is the 5th largest economy in the world even if energy was booming and Tech was doing poor. That is where my clearly satirical comment came from.

The energy sector is "depressed" because they are over producing. OK is pretty much a one trick pony from an economic perspective. CA also produces 75% the oil OK does so it would do well with an energy sector boom too.
 

steross

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#89
You said if you "Reverse those fortunes and you will see the reverse". There is exactly 0% chance OK is the 5th largest economy in the world even if energy was booming and Tech was doing poor. That is where my clearly satirical comment came from.

The energy sector is "depressed" because they are over producing. OK is pretty much a one trick pony from an economic perspective. CA also produces 75% the oil OK does so it would do well with an energy sector boom too.
Do you make your money running a strawman factory?

Please show anywhere that I said anything remotely close to Oklahoma was going to become the 5th largest economy? That is too stupid of a thought for an adult to even assume was said. Why not just claim that I said that Oklahoma is going to become its own nation and be a bigger economy than America? It is just as dumb and just as not said.

What was being discussed was the flow of people seeking jobs. Particularly people with educations. Right now, the money is in the tech sector so there is flow into Ca and in Ok the major driver is depressed so the flow is out. Look at data from other time periods and that reverses. NOBODY is dumb enough to think this discussion of relative flows was a discussion of equating magnitudes between two states with such hugely different size of land and population. That is like saying that my pay went up 40% last year and Jeff Bezos only went up 25% so I'm richer than him!!!:derp:

The quotes around "depressed" are a weak attempt to save face. You were incorrect with your assertion about production. The sector is depressed at it is a well known fact. You know it. I know it. The quotes just make you look like a child.
 
Feb 7, 2007
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#90
Do you make your money running a strawman factory?

Please show anywhere that I said anything remotely close to Oklahoma was going to become the 5th largest economy? That is too stupid of a thought for an adult to even assume was said. Why not just claim that I said that Oklahoma is going to become its own nation and be a bigger economy than America? It is just as dumb and just as not said.

What was being discussed was the flow of people seeking jobs. Particularly people with educations. Right now, the money is in the tech sector so there is flow into Ca and in Ok the major driver is depressed so the flow is out. Look at data from other time periods and that reverses. NOBODY is dumb enough to think this discussion of relative flows was a discussion of equating magnitudes between two states with such hugely different size of land and population. That is like saying that my pay went up 40% last year and Jeff Bezos only went up 25% so I'm richer than him!!!:derp:

The quotes around "depressed" are a weak attempt to save face. You were incorrect with your assertion about production. The sector is depressed at it is a well known fact. You know it. I know it. The quotes just make you look like a child.
You replied and put in bold the part about the 5th largest economy in the world and responded with "Reverse those fortunes and you will see the reverse". LOL. Straw man requires I mention something off topic. You literally bolded it.

How was my assertion about production incorrect?

The "depressed" in quotes was because I find it hard to label an industry that is having unprecedented production and the highest level of employment in history to be depressed. Sure it is under performing in the market but that is due to prices. Something I mentioned in my first response.
 

steross

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#91
You replied and put in bold the part about the 5th largest economy in the world and responded with "Reverse those fortunes and you will see the reverse". LOL. Straw man requires I mention something off topic. You literally bolded it.

How was my assertion about production incorrect?

The "depressed" in quotes was because I find it hard to label an industry that is having unprecedented production and the highest level of employment in history to be depressed. Sure it is under performing in the market but that is due to prices. Something I mentioned in my first response.
straw man
/ˌstrô ˈman/
noun
noun: strawman
  1. 1.
    an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.
    "her familiar procedure of creating a straw man by exaggerating their approach"

  2. 2.
    a person regarded as having no substance or integrity.
    "a photogenic straw man gets inserted into office and advisers dictate policy"

So, you don't know what the word depressed means and you don't know what a strawman fallacy is. It doesn't need to be "off topic" is just has to be an intentional misrepresentation. And again, nothing I wrote even hints at the idea that I was claiming that Oklahoma was going to become the 5th largest economy. It was a blatant strawman. That statement was not the subject of the bolded sentence. It was merely a descriptor of California. And, that was your second strawman, starting with the "complete utopia" nonsense.

If you think you know so much about the O&G sector right now and that it's performance is nothing but a market issue, you need to tell the Fed. Because they are putting out crazy reports like this:
The biggest employment decline in Oklahoma since 2013 has been in oil and gas extraction, which lost over 6,000 jobs—more than a quarter of its total employment.[1] Even with this large shrinkage, the extraction industry remains over 11 times as concentrated in the state as in the nation, based on location quotient.[2] As such, the industry will continue to play a sizable, even if slightly diminished, role in the state’s economy.
https://www.kansascityfed.org/publications/research/oke/articles/2019/3q-job-growth-lagged
 
Feb 7, 2007
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Denver
#92
straw man
/ˌstrô ˈman/
noun
noun: strawman
  1. 1.
    an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.
    "her familiar procedure of creating a straw man by exaggerating their approach"

  2. 2.
    a person regarded as having no substance or integrity.
    "a photogenic straw man gets inserted into office and advisers dictate policy"

So, you don't know what the word depressed means and you don't know what a strawman fallacy is. It doesn't need to be "off topic" is just has to be an intentional misrepresentation. And again, nothing I wrote even hints at the idea that I was claiming that Oklahoma was going to become the 5th largest economy. It was a blatant strawman. That statement was not the subject of the bolded sentence. It was merely a descriptor of California. And, that was your second strawman, starting with the "complete utopia" nonsense.

If you think you know so much about the O&G sector right now and that it's performance is nothing but a market issue, you need to tell the Fed. Because they are putting out crazy reports like this:
The biggest employment decline in Oklahoma since 2013 has been in oil and gas extraction, which lost over 6,000 jobs—more than a quarter of its total employment.[1] Even with this large shrinkage, the extraction industry remains over 11 times as concentrated in the state as in the nation, based on location quotient.[2] As such, the industry will continue to play a sizable, even if slightly diminished, role in the state’s economy.
https://www.kansascityfed.org/publications/research/oke/articles/2019/3q-job-growth-lagged
Cool, what did I misrepresent? Maybe I grabbed a piece of the discussion you didn't want to harp on. Maybe don't bold it then. Sorry I thought that when you said things would be reversed I thought you meant they would be reversed.

If you want to see a straw man argument look earlier in the thread when people point out feces issues in CA while discussing OK.

I have touched on most parts of the discussion too. You grabbing a word in my sarcastic comment don't prove straw man. I just threw in some sarcasm that even when the roles of energy and tech were reversed CA was still doing better than OK. You know the topic at hand.

Sweet jobs left OK. They all moved to the Permian things aren't depressed down there. They have 90K job openings in TX for the O&G sector. Score another point for the OK economy being poor. You know the topic at hand.

https://info.courthousedirect.com/blog/current-workforce-trends-texas-oil-and-gas-industry
 

steross

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#93
Cool, what did I misrepresent? Maybe I grabbed a piece of the discussion you didn't want to harp on. Maybe don't bold it then. Sorry I thought that when you said things would be reversed I thought you meant they would be reversed.

If you want to see a straw man argument look earlier in the thread when people point out feces issues in CA while discussing OK.

I have touched on most parts of the discussion too. You grabbing a word in my sarcastic comment don't prove straw man. I just threw in some sarcasm that even when the roles of energy and tech were reversed CA was still doing better than OK. You know the topic at hand.

Sweet jobs left OK. They all moved to the Permian things aren't depressed down there. They have 90K job openings in TX for the O&G sector. Score another point for the OK economy being poor. You know the topic at hand.

https://info.courthousedirect.com/blog/current-workforce-trends-texas-oil-and-gas-industry
You misrepresented when you said "There is exactly 0% chance OK is the 5th largest economy in the world even if energy was booming and Tech was doing poor." Build a position fighting against a position that is on the subject of what the other person said but clearly isn't what they said. That is a strawman.

For example, if I were to respond to your post with, "Texas is a state with 28 million people therefore 90k jobs is not going to save them" that is a strawman. You never said it was, only that they are there. Likewise, responding with Ok becoming the 5th lgst economy is a strawman. Never was said. I didn't grab a word, it was your thought that was.
 
Feb 7, 2007
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Denver
#94
You misrepresented when you said "There is exactly 0% chance OK is the 5th largest economy in the world even if energy was booming and Tech was doing poor." Build a position fighting against a position that is on the subject of what the other person said but clearly isn't what they said. That is a strawman.

For example, if I were to respond to your post with, "Texas is a state with 28 million people therefore 90k jobs is not going to save them" that is a strawman. You never said it was, only that they are there. Likewise, responding with Ok becoming the 5th lgst economy is a strawman. Never was said. I didn't grab a word, it was your thought that was.
So when you quoted and bolded that part then said it would be reversed you didn't mean it?

Wouldn't you taking the discussion away from the topic be strawman? Especially when the small piece being discussed was sarcasm? It's like strawman inception.
 

steross

Bookface/Instagran legend
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#95
So when you quoted and bolded that part then said it would be reversed you didn't mean it?

Wouldn't you taking the discussion away from the topic be strawman? Especially when the small piece being discussed was sarcasm? It's like strawman inception.
Are you being serious?

Yes I meant that flow of people migrating domestically would be reversed. That was the subject being discussed. The subject was never, and will never be, Oklahoma becoming the 5th largest economy as that is nonsensical. So, OBVIOUSLY, when I was saying that it would be reversed, I mean the relative flow of people seeking jobs. That was the subject of your sentence that I bolded.

No, taking a discussion away from the topic is not a strawman. The definition of a strawman is written above for you. There are also many websites that discuss various fallacies and strawman is a common one of them. I suggest that you look them up instead of continuing on in your clear confusion.

And, I did not change the subject, you did. At the point that you made that absurd claim, you changed the subject.
 
Feb 7, 2007
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#96
Are you being serious?

Yes I meant that flow of people migrating domestically would be reversed. That was the subject being discussed. The subject was never, and will never be, Oklahoma becoming the 5th largest economy as that is nonsensical. So, OBVIOUSLY, when I was saying that it would be reversed, I mean the relative flow of people seeking jobs. That was the subject of your sentence that I bolded.

No, taking a discussion away from the topic is not a strawman. The definition of a strawman is written above for you. There are also many websites that discuss various fallacies and strawman is a common one of them. I suggest that you look them up instead of continuing on in your clear confusion.

And, I did not change the subject, you did. At the point that you made that absurd claim, you changed the subject.
Being about as serious as this warrants. I did go back to the tape and see in bold the 5th largest economy part being quoted. Then I went on to read it (bolded section) would be reversed with your "if things were different they would be different" argument.

An easy thing to do would have been to say "agreed" never meant that it would be the 5th largest economy just the jobs part. But you did imply it with your words and I took the chance to throw in some shade. Instead you claimed strawman. Which doesn't work here since the tape shows your words were directed at what I was discussing IN BOLD. And now here we are.
 

steross

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#97
Being about as serious as this warrants. I did go back to the tape and see in bold the 5th largest economy part being quoted. Then I went on to read it (bolded section) would be reversed with your "if things were different they would be different" argument.

An easy thing to do would have been to say "agreed" never meant that it would be the 5th largest economy just the jobs part. But you did imply it with your words and I took the chance to throw in some shade. Instead you claimed strawman. Which doesn't work here since the tape shows your words were directed at what I was discussing IN BOLD. And now here we are.
Why aren't you calling me out for saying that it is often reported that well educated, young .... high earners are moving to Oklahoma? I mean, if you are trying to say that as soon as I bold some print and use the word reverse that it means that I must have meant that every single bolded word is reversed, they why are you letting that huge error go?
Your position is simply :derp::derp::derp: . But I am impressed by the tenacity your repeated failed attempts to save it anyway. But, at this point you are grasping at straws. This last one was so convoluted that it was barely comprehensible as English.
 
Feb 7, 2007
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#98
I have already established CA has and has almost always had a better economy than OK. The oil industry is at an all time high in production. (you tucked you tail on that argument). Even if rolls of tech and energy were reversed CA would still be higher.

Not sure what your argument is other than... "You took my confusing pointless ifs and buts argument out of context... so strawman".

Now you are using emojis and attacking my half assed replies structure. Oh nOoO.
 

steross

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#99
I have already established CA has and has almost always had a better economy than OK. The oil industry is at an all time high in production. (you tucked you tail on that argument). Even if rolls of tech and energy were reversed CA would still be higher.

Not sure what your argument is other than... "You took my confusing pointless ifs and buts argument out of context... so strawman".

Now you are using emojis and attacking my half assed replies structure. Oh nOoO.
Hey, looky there. We have found a point of agreement! Absoutely that was a half-assed reply. I would actually say 1/4 but I don't want to bicker so half-assed it is.

Your first sentence is another strawman from your strawman factory.

Not only did I not "tuck my tail' on the production point I discussed it and showed why it was not relevant to the point I made.

No, if tech and oil traded places I can assure you that net in/out flow rates of domestic migrants would change. Just look at when that has happened in the past. That is and always was my only argument. Funny, nobody other than you seemed to be confused by it. But, the more you say the less surprising that seems. I'm done here but in the future if I am crazy enough to respond to one of your posts I will keep the response on a lower comprehension level to avoid repeating this. I am hopeful that you now know what a strawman is being that you utilize them so frequently.
 
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Hey, looky there. We have found a point of agreement! Absoutely that was a half-assed reply. I would actually say 1/4 but I don't want to bicker so half-assed it is.

Your first sentence is another strawman from your strawman factory.

Not only did I not "tuck my tail' on the production point I discussed it and showed why it was not relevant to the point I made.

No, if tech and oil traded places I can assure you that net in/out flow rates of domestic migrants would change. Just look at when that has happened in the past. That is and always was my only argument. Funny, nobody other than you seemed to be confused by it. But, the more you say the less surprising that seems. I'm done here but in the future if I am crazy enough to respond to one of your posts I will keep the response on a lower comprehension level to avoid repeating this. I am hopeful that you now know what a strawman is being that you utilize them so frequently.
Ha, probably true.

Ok so now talking about the argument is strawman?

Hey I tend to think all time high oil production means it is not depressed. But what do I know I have just been in the industry for 12 years and just took my pick of 5 different job offers. There hasn't been an energy boom in OK for 50 years like what we just saw in STACK and I must have missed the educated young people flocking in.

Positive note I am jealous you got to live in Australia. Bet that was top notch.