How is Oklahoma doing as a state?

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UrbanCowboy1

Some cowboys gots smarts real good like me.
Aug 8, 2006
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#61
Yes, Oklahoma is OK...but we have gone a bit on the lib side more lately and I am seeing more homelessness as a result (IMHO) here in Tulsa. I hope we can get a good ten years out of our new outstanding park before they let it become overrun down the line...right now it's an outstanding family friendly place and even dog crap free five days a week. OKC, Tulsa and Stillwater have all become fantastic places in most all areas, downtowns are sparkling (especially Tulsa) and it's become a somewhat hip place to be...mostly due to capitalist investing in cityscapes and FAR less so, IMHO, public monies. Btw, happiness doesn't have anything to do with political affiliation, IMHO it is opening your eyes and being kind to those around you...Politics is for the small minded who have yet to figure out that their own life is far to finite to quibble over such trivia.

One of the main, if not THE main, thing that has made Oklahoma better than other areas is our cost of living...which enables us to travel to other areas MUCH more routinely than those less fortunate who live in sprawling big cities on the left coast where the cost of living is way too high due to high taxes killing business and personal ability to buy real estate. You fix that by getting LESS outraged politicians who are more concerned about making things better and LESS concerned about re-elections and, even more importantly, getting private citizens to care and put their money where their mouth is...like Boone Pickens and George Keiser...both on opposite ends of politics...but both with a desire to improve communities.
You covered yourself with the IMHO. Because the rest of this is completely anecdotal and bears no semblance to reality.

That said, CA coast has gone to shit and has essentially stopped growing as a result. The Californian's are fleeing to neighboring states and Texas like a virus. Seattle and Portland are casualties of this and I fear my beloved Phoenix will be next.

But even with that, I have no desire to go back to Oklahoma on a permanent basis. Low cost of living doesn't equate to improved quality of life. The average Oklahoman's health is mind-numbingly bad (8th worst state for obesity, 48th out of 50 rank in access to healthcare). The weather is either freezing blizzard, gusting tornado's, or brutal heat. But beyond all that, and here's where I'll insert my own IMO, the people are unkind to any viewpoint that isn't based on a religious orthodoxy. This is also true of the coasts from the opposite side. It leaves most American's feeling like they have no place in the interior or on the coasts. I'm a firm believer that's why the mountain/desert west has grown like it has: people come in from all over to get away from insane liberal policies and incomprehensible religious dogma. I think the 'stat' that proves this point to me on the unsuitability of Oklahoma as a residential location for my generation (the early millenial (born pre-1990) is this: out of my 25 closest friends from high school and college, how many do you think still live in Oklahoma? I don't have to think hard on this, because I can count them on one hand. The answer is 2. The entire state of Oklahoma had nothing to offer the rest of us post-college. I love Oklahoma and it will always have a special place in my heart. But I would never go back until I see that evidential improvement. Saying "people are nice here" won't cut it for me, and I'd assume it wouldn't cut it for most of us that have left.


https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-population-growth-20190501-story.html
https://fee.org/articles/californias-population-growth-hits-historic-low-government-report-shows/
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/health-care/healthcare-access
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_the_United_States
https://www.monster.com/career-advice/article/top-10-states-with-best-job-markets-for-college-grads
 

StillwaterTownie

Federal Marshal
Jun 18, 2010
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#63
I moved (back) to Stillwater after over 25 years in the DFW area a little over six years ago.

What I miss: Wide variety of restaurants and shopping--but to be fair Edmond is 45 minutes away and OKC and Tulsa are 90 minutes away. It could easily take an hour to get to a store or restaurant in Dallas or Fort Worth.
To be fair, downtown OKC and Tulsa are 60 minutes away. The airports are under 90 minutes.
 
Sep 29, 2011
727
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Breckenridge, CO
#64
Strange how I think owning a passport is related to travel habits.
California has more foreign born citizens (10.5 mil) than Oklahoma has in total population, I assume those people would want to travel to visit family in their home countries. If only the foreign born had passports it would be 1 out of 3. How many Californians travel to their southern neighbor Mexico for vacation annually? Since 9/11 you need a passport to cross the border adding to the number of passport holders.

I am reminded of a conversation with a fiend of mine in the Netherlands when he asked me why the percentage of Americans with a passport was so small. I said we can travel an area the size of the EU without one. For Americans travelling from state to state is the equivalent of Euro's travelling country to country. Is the US citizen who has visited 41 states more "well travelled" than the person in the EU who has visited 5 countries within the bloc and maybe a couple others outside the bloc?
Not only that, but I’d suspect a larger percentage of California residents have relatives that live out of state that’s too far to drive than do Oklahomans. Most Oklahomans’ out of state families probably live within driving distance, ie Texas, Colorado, Kansas, etc..


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wrenhal

Territorial Marshal
Aug 11, 2011
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#65
Where did the qualifier of traveling abroad come from?
Strange how I think owning a passport is related to travel habits.
it is very strange especially since you talked about California because California has a lot of businesses that do business in Asia and thus need passports. So you can't quite make the connection with the number of passports means people who travel for recreation.

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Rack

Federal Marshal
Oct 13, 2004
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#67
You covered yourself with the IMHO. Because the rest of this is completely anecdotal and bears no semblance to reality.

That said, CA coast has gone to shit and has essentially stopped growing as a result. The Californian's are fleeing to neighboring states and Texas like a virus. Seattle and Portland are casualties of this and I fear my beloved Phoenix will be next.

But even with that, I have no desire to go back to Oklahoma on a permanent basis. Low cost of living doesn't equate to improved quality of life. The average Oklahoman's health is mind-numbingly bad (8th worst state for obesity, 48th out of 50 rank in access to healthcare). The weather is either freezing blizzard, gusting tornado's, or brutal heat. But beyond all that, and here's where I'll insert my own IMO, the people are unkind to any viewpoint that isn't based on a religious orthodoxy. This is also true of the coasts from the opposite side. It leaves most American's feeling like they have no place in the interior or on the coasts. I'm a firm believer that's why the mountain/desert west has grown like it has: people come in from all over to get away from insane liberal policies and incomprehensible religious dogma. I think the 'stat' that proves this point to me on the unsuitability of Oklahoma as a residential location for my generation (the early millennial (born pre-1990) is this: out of my 25 closest friends from high school and college, how many do you think still live in Oklahoma? I don't have to think hard on this, because I can count them on one hand. The answer is 2. The entire state of Oklahoma had nothing to offer the rest of us post-college. I love Oklahoma and it will always have a special place in my heart. But I would never go back until I see that evidential improvement. Saying "people are nice here" won't cut it for me, and I'd assume it wouldn't cut it for most of us that have left.


https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-population-growth-20190501-story.html
https://fee.org/articles/californias-population-growth-hits-historic-low-government-report-shows/
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/health-care/healthcare-access
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_the_United_States
https://www.monster.com/career-advice/article/top-10-states-with-best-job-markets-for-college-grads
So here's the thing, I'm a little older than you...I was actually born in California and choose to live in Oklahoma after 11 years in Dallas after OSU. We moved to Tulsa due to family in Oklahoma and the fact that we can live in a wonderful 2,600sf home with less than a $700 a month mortgage...My "reality," may be, and sounds like it is, FAR different from yours...But one can have a great life in Oklahoma, with low wage stress and get out of the state very often...and travel extensively due to that low wage stress. You be you, But I have an opinion and I'm actually a person who lives in this state and has seen MAJOR changes in just the past few years not to mention the past decade.. I did NOT like it when I first moved here 23 years ago...BUT..MAJOR positive changes have occurred, especially in Tulsa. We have seen the substantial repopulation of downtown like we have never had before and it's great. Lots of great places to eat and wonderful hotels and a great bar scene...it's light years better than even a decade ago. In fact, the current Tulsa boom is the best and biggest in it's history including the original Oil boom. Also, the first part of my post was somewhat sarcastic so I think that soured it a bit more than it should have.

Btw, your views on faith are likely created by attitudes you likely have experienced that prevail in people who are young/not very deep in their faith "walk" ...they lack an understanding of what it truly means to be Christlike and to share a meal and friendships with those who are different from you. Sadly that judgementalness is definitely a problem for many, but many are also stepping into a far deeper faith lately. Things are changing in the faith community due to living in a society that challenges the faithful to be better at it. This is not a trade for what they see as truth, but to one of love and understanding regarding a shared place in fallen humanity with those who don't agree. The end result may not be totally advocation and acceptance of things that are clearly in opposition to faith, but a more complete and complex love and understanding of all creation who reside in a shared fallen experience.

Certainly the weather does suck and we HAVE TO be able to travel for this to work, BUT, it IS indeed a very good place to live precisely because our lifestyle doesn't leave us without energy...nor sapped from chasing the dollar, the next thing, or whatever else stresses out those with more complex lives. Simplicity is achievable in Oklahoma, IMHO far more easily than more expensive states. Btw, I love Colorado and spend a lot of time there so I do understand what you are saying about mountain state mindset.
 
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Rack

Federal Marshal
Oct 13, 2004
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#68
Yeah I brought that up because RACK argued people in OK travel "Much more regularly" than people from CA. I mean maybe he means going to Branson but I still call BS. I still think how often people search for travel on google is at least a solid indicator of their travel habits.
I think what I should have said is people in Oklahoma should have the ability to travel more regularly than people from California..due to lack of wage stress...they just don't know how to take advantage. I also have to admit that my experience may be quite different than the average Oklahoman because I moved here from a more expensive region precisely to take advantage of a cheaper one and to live below our means so we could travel more. Additionally I work with two families of California cash outers both from the San Diego area, that live here due to their wives families and they love it because they are able to live here at a much higher level than they were in Cali. The main difference being real estate and tax burden. IF one can find a job here that pays well or bring with him / her substantial tax free cash from real estate transactions...Oklahoma is a wonderful lower cost option out of the rat race.
 
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steross

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Mar 31, 2004
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oklahoma city
#69
From afar, it appears that Oklahoma is still the same back-asswards, poor, Southern state it has always been. The only possible appeal is the cost of living, but then again - undesirable locals are always cheap. Econ 101. As for the Okies who are returning, it's only because Paradise isn't cheap.
This okie returned from paradise (I lived at the orange arrow). I didn't leave due to expense.
Oklahoma City is nothing like what it was when I left 27 years ago. I think your opinion from afar is blurred by the distance.
Screen Shot 2019-10-25 at 11.11.50 PM.png
 

Rack

Federal Marshal
Oct 13, 2004
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#70
Does the carry permit come with a "shoot me first, I'm armed" sticker?
One doesn't really notice all that many armed people, but we are aware that many are armed...and most of them know what they are doing and take seriously their carry permit's.
 
Sep 29, 2011
727
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Breckenridge, CO
#73
Yes, Oklahoma is OK...but we have gone a bit on the lib side more lately and I am seeing more homelessness as a result (IMHO) here in Tulsa. I hope we can get a good ten years out of our new outstanding park before they let it become overrun down the line...right now it's an outstanding family friendly place and even dog crap free five days a week. OKC, Tulsa and Stillwater have all become fantastic places in most all areas, downtowns are sparkling (especially Tulsa) and it's become a somewhat hip place to be...mostly due to capitalist investing in cityscapes and FAR less so, IMHO, public monies. Btw, happiness doesn't have anything to do with political affiliation, IMHO it is opening your eyes and being kind to those around you...Politics is for the small minded who have yet to figure out that their own life is far to finite to quibble over such trivia.

One of the main, if not THE main, thing that has made Oklahoma better than other areas is our cost of living...which enables us to travel to other areas MUCH more routinely than those less fortunate who live in sprawling big cities on the left coast where the cost of living is way too high due to high taxes killing business and personal ability to buy real estate. You fix that by getting LESS outraged politicians who are more concerned about making things better and LESS concerned about re-elections and, even more importantly, getting private citizens to care and put their money where their mouth is...like Boone Pickens and George Keiser...both on opposite ends of politics...but both with a desire to improve communities.
You covered yourself with the IMHO. Because the rest of this is completely anecdotal and bears no semblance to reality.

That said, CA coast has gone to shit and has essentially stopped growing as a result. The Californian's are fleeing to neighboring states and Texas like a virus. Seattle and Portland are casualties of this and I fear my beloved Phoenix will be next.

But even with that, I have no desire to go back to Oklahoma on a permanent basis. Low cost of living doesn't equate to improved quality of life. The average Oklahoman's health is mind-numbingly bad (8th worst state for obesity, 48th out of 50 rank in access to healthcare). The weather is either freezing blizzard, gusting tornado's, or brutal heat. But beyond all that, and here's where I'll insert my own IMO, the people are unkind to any viewpoint that isn't based on a religious orthodoxy. This is also true of the coasts from the opposite side. It leaves most American's feeling like they have no place in the interior or on the coasts. I'm a firm believer that's why the mountain/desert west has grown like it has: people come in from all over to get away from insane liberal policies and incomprehensible religious dogma. I think the 'stat' that proves this point to me on the unsuitability of Oklahoma as a residential location for my generation (the early millenial (born pre-1990) is this: out of my 25 closest friends from high school and college, how many do you think still live in Oklahoma? I don't have to think hard on this, because I can count them on one hand. The answer is 2. The entire state of Oklahoma had nothing to offer the rest of us post-college. I love Oklahoma and it will always have a special place in my heart. But I would never go back until I see that evidential improvement. Saying "people are nice here" won't cut it for me, and I'd assume it wouldn't cut it for most of us that have left.


https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-population-growth-20190501-story.html
https://fee.org/articles/californias-population-growth-hits-historic-low-government-report-shows/
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/health-care/healthcare-access
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_the_United_States
https://www.monster.com/career-advice/article/top-10-states-with-best-job-markets-for-college-grads
So, Oklahoma has brutal heat. Do you have thermometers in Phoenix?
Freezing blizzards in Oklahoma? What, maybe 3 days a year?
Don’t like obese people?
You figure just living in Okla will make YOU unhealthy?
Maybe intimidated by a population with a moral compass? People in OK are generally as nice or nicer than most anywhere I’ve lived or often visited (OK, CO, TX, CA, IL, NY)
So you kinda implied all your buddies from college moved away from Okla for the reasons you stated, and not job related opportunities?

Dude, you just sound like someone looking to find reasons (much exaggerated) to justify your current location versus Okla.

Oklahoma may not be for everyone (I live in CO) whether it’s career, weather or culture. But you don’t need to exaggerate and concoct reasons to seemingly justify not choosing Okla.


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Rack

Federal Marshal
Oct 13, 2004
19,625
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#74
Not only that, but I’d suspect a larger percentage of California residents have relatives that live out of state that’s too far to drive than do Oklahomans. Most Oklahomans’ out of state families probably live within driving distance, ie Texas, Colorado, Kansas, etc..


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Within driving distance for Oklahoma also includes a lot more of the continent than does within driving distance from California due to the Pacific Ocean limiting it regarding driving west. Btw, I don't want to bash California as it's has many wonderful attributes (especially in the country, central coast, or mountains away from the big cities). My comments about travel out of Oklahoma were based on my personal experience not the average Oklahoman.
 

StillwaterTownie

Federal Marshal
Jun 18, 2010
16,903
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#75
I have no desire to go back to Oklahoma on a permanent basis. Low cost of living doesn't equate to improved quality of life. The average Oklahoman's health is mind-numbingly bad (8th worst state for obesity, 48th out of 50 rank in access to healthcare). The weather is either freezing blizzard, gusting tornado's, or brutal heat. But beyond all that, and here's where I'll insert my own IMO, the people are unkind to any viewpoint that isn't based on a religious orthodoxy. This is also true of the coasts from the opposite side. It leaves most American's feeling like they have no place in the interior or on the coasts. I'm a firm believer that's why the mountain/desert west has grown like it has: people come in from all over to get away from insane liberal policies and incomprehensible religious dogma. I think the 'stat' that proves this point to me on the unsuitability of Oklahoma as a residential location for my generation (the early millenial (born pre-1990) is this: out of my 25 closest friends from high school and college, how many do you think still live in Oklahoma? I don't have to think hard on this, because I can count them on one hand. The answer is 2. The entire state of Oklahoma had nothing to offer the rest of us post-college. I love Oklahoma and it will always have a special place in my heart. But I would never go back until I see that evidential improvement. Saying "people are nice here" won't cut it for me, and I'd assume it wouldn't cut it for most of us that have left.


https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-population-growth-20190501-story.html
https://fee.org/articles/californias-population-growth-hits-historic-low-government-report-shows/
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/health-care/healthcare-access
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_the_United_States
https://www.monster.com/career-advice/article/top-10-states-with-best-job-markets-for-college-grads
No. Blizzards are extremely rare in central Oklahoma. The last one that happened was the unforgettable Christmas Eve Blizzard of 2009.

Life is how you make it, so don't move to Oklahoma already poor and in less than good health. You'll only become a statistic making Oklahoma look as bad or worse. The ruling Republicans won't have your sympathy. They're going to try to do all they can to stop more Medicaid for Oklahoma.

Stay out of remote rural towns in Oklahoma, if you don't like religious dogma. Such places have little to offer. They tend to be both overly religious and backward. Some didn't have legal liquor by the drink until 2018. That year, they also wanted to reject new jobs for their economy by voting against legalizing medical marijuana. That is where Oklahoma isn't doing good for sure.

Anyway, people can happily move to Texas, if they want to force the cost of living to skyrocket there, while doing Oklahoma a favor by keeping it low.
 
Feb 7, 2007
455
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Denver
#77
Dude, you just sound like someone looking to find reasons (much exaggerated) to justify your current location versus Okla.

Oklahoma may not be for everyone (I live in CO) whether it’s career, weather or culture. But you don’t need to exaggerate and concoct reasons to seemingly justify not choosing Okla.


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Right back at you and the group of people acting like having homeless people in cities makes an entire state a hell hole. The OP asked how OK was doing as a state and many of the first responses were about other states issues. Primarily CA.

I am a 4th generation Oklahoman, but I am realistic enough to know that the overwhelming majority of the US and the world would view CA as a better place to live than OK. Now is that true for everyone? No, of course not and for good reasons.

Reason #1 west coast has homeless issues? It has the best weather of nearly anywhere on the planet and to top that off it is absurdly wealthy. If it were just a "liberal" issues thing then Chicago would be overrun. Guess what it has crappy weather and fewer homeless issues.

Also had to cringe at the moral compass comment. How is teen pregnancy, incarceration rate, child obesity rate, opioid abuse, etc doing for the "morally superior" state of OK.
 

UrbanCowboy1

Some cowboys gots smarts real good like me.
Aug 8, 2006
3,161
1,753
1,743
Phoenix, AZ
#78
So, Oklahoma has brutal heat. Do you have thermometers in Phoenix?
Freezing blizzards in Oklahoma? What, maybe 3 days a year?
Don’t like obese people?
You figure just living in Okla will make YOU unhealthy?
Maybe intimidated by a population with a moral compass? People in OK are generally as nice or nicer than most anywhere I’ve lived or often visited (OK, CO, TX, CA, IL, NY)
So you kinda implied all your buddies from college moved away from Okla for the reasons you stated, and not job related opportunities?

Dude, you just sound like someone looking to find reasons (much exaggerated) to justify your current location versus Okla.

Oklahoma may not be for everyone (I live in CO) whether it’s career, weather or culture. But you don’t need to exaggerate and concoct reasons to seemingly justify not choosing Okla.


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... he said from not Oklahoma. :rolleyes:
 
Jul 28, 2011
134
22
568
Reno NV
#79
Much is made of the number of people who choose to leave California and the primary, but not only reason given is the cost of living. With a population of around 40 million, the number leaving is merely a drop in the bucket. What isn't often reported is the fact that many of those moving into the state are young, well-educated, ambitious high-earners who are anxious to make their mark in the world's 5th largest economy. Not a bad trade. Kind of like Oklahoma...right?
 
Jul 28, 2011
134
22
568
Reno NV
#80
This okie returned from paradise (I lived at the orange arrow). I didn't leave due to expense.
Oklahoma City is nothing like what it was when I left 27 years ago. I think your opinion from afar is blurred by the distance.
View attachment 74414
Wow...this is a beautiful beach. And the water looks almost tropical. I haven't seen a stretch of Pacific beach like this north of Mexico. Would you care to share with us where this sliver of paradise is?