How do we finish?

[Big Daddy]

I agree, I want a clean program as well. Gundy is not going to beat any school that's a legit top ten and in most cases a legit top twenty.

I'm pretty sure there was a stat a few weeks ago that the top 3 coaches with wins over Top 25 teams included Gundy and Saban.

 

[Herecomesbullets]

So, Andy, you think Riley sucks as a coach if two losses in a year that you should have won is your measuring stick ?
He lost to ISU and KSU, both of which we beat.

Yeah.....
I'm sure that's what he'd be saying if we had made the playoffs the last 3 years, we're breaking in a new quarterback and were getting ready to make the conference title game because we had beaten both our In State rival and Texas since those 2 losses.

 

[Herecomesbullets]

I'm pretty sure there was a stat a few weeks ago that the top 3 coaches with wins over Top 25 teams included Gundy and Saban.

Birry broke all that down

 

[andylicious]

So, Andy, you think Riley sucks as a coach if two losses in a year that you should have won is your measuring stick ?
He lost to ISU and KSU, both of which we beat.

Nice twist there, but I could care less what the bellybutton tat has done at this time he appears to be going to the conference championship game which we can't because our coach CHOKES and then makes excuses.

 

[PokeJ]

Aren’t we 2-1 against Top 25 teams this year? Pretty good for a team that can’t beat anybody.


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[andylicious]

So, Andy, you think Riley sucks as a coach if two losses in a year that you should have won is your measuring stick ?
He lost to ISU and KSU, both of which we beat.

By the way, didn't Reilly do what he had to do after screwing up?

 

[Big Daddy]

Firstly, to answer the thread question ( we’ve had major thread creep here) Baylor W, TCU L (because of their defense and running QB)



In summation, it’s boring to me right now. I’m ready for the energy and excitement to return.

Wow- guess you don't like to watch defense. Our D has been FANTASTIC this year and I get EXCITED to see them take the field and on each 3rd down I EXPECT them to come off the field.

Take your 50-44 win vs TTU yesterday. I'll take the wins when we hold the opponent to 21 pts or less.

If I could have the old offenses or the this year's defense, I'd take this year's D hands down.

 

[andylicious]

Wow- guess you don't like to watch defense. Our D has been FANTASTIC this year and I get EXCITED to see them take the field and on each 3rd down I EXPECT them to come off the field.

Take your 50-44 win vs TTU yesterday. I'll take the wins when we hold the opponent to 21 pts or less.

If I could have the old offenses or the this year's defense, I'd take this year's D hands down.

But yet we couldn't hold lowly tech to 21 or 22.

 

[ORANGE AN BLACK]

Wow- guess you don't like to watch defense. Our D has been FANTASTIC this year and I get EXCITED to see them take the field and on each 3rd down I EXPECT them to come off the field.
If I could have the old offenses or the this year's defense, I'd take this year's D hands down.

Partially agree. Our 2017 team would mop this league up with our offense alone. Enough of hypotheticals though...I’ve enjoyed our defensive performances other than last two games.

 

[gundysburner]

Wow- guess you don't like to watch defense. Our D has been FANTASTIC this year and I get EXCITED to see them take the field and on each 3rd down I EXPECT them to come off the field.

Take your 50-44 win vs TTU yesterday. I'll take the wins when we hold the opponent to 21 pts or less.

If I could have the old offenses or the this year's defense, I'd take this year's D hands down.

I love what our defense has done this year, but there's plenty of argument that the '11 defense was every bit as productive & impactful.

Given that the single biggest stat relating to wins & losses is Turnovers, that unit is leaps & bounds ahead of this year's group. I mean, it's great that they're a top 15 unit, but the '85 Bears, they ain't.

 

[cowboys_r_us]

Everyone of your top ten wins listed wound up sucking by the end of the season except Stanford. Most of them were very suspect

Is it possible that their eventual finish was partly due to us beating them? Injuries? Changing goals due to losses?

If we're only going to talk about wins in terms of where the teams ended we need to stop having weekly rankings and just rank when everything is over with.

 

[cowboys_r_us]

All those wins...yet 1 championship to show for it!!! Further illustrates we play for bowl games, not championships!! #cowboyculture

Every team outside of Clemson, Alabama, Ohio State, LSU, Auburn and OU (big 12 championships) would be saying precisely the same thing for the last 10 years. Being a perennial top 20 team vs a perennial top 5 is a massive jump. Basically noone has accomplished this is the last 20 years outside of Oregon and Clemson and you could argue that Oregon has fallen off.

At some point you have to just be realistic about how this system works and be glad to be annually discussing championships in November- hopefully we put it together at some point.

 

[cowboys_r_us]

Firstly, to answer the thread question ( we’ve had major thread creep here) Baylor W, TCU L (because of their defense and running QB)

I really enjoy everyone’s inputs and tenacity of those points.

That said, IMO perception is reality. All I know is that in my gut, OSU football doesn’t feel the same after 2012. I think most of us average fans (people who’s football IQ amounts to being able to tell the difference between a pass play and a run play) yearn for the Halcyon years of Holgy and Monken. It “seems” HCMG wants an OC he can control or override. I wish he would hire OC’s that play their style, and he stay out of the way. If it doesn’t work, get somebody else.

I’m also in the camp that the OU game is the biggest game of the year. Period. Only thing that surpasses that would be the finals of the playoff. The Pokes best performances against OU since 2012 came in years where the OU game didn’t matter other than pride, 2014 and 2018 (missed PAT game, ugh) Maybe that’s why HCMG tries to downplay the importance of the game.

For the record, we stopped buying season tickets, and as I type this, I’m moderately ashamed of that revelation. But man, those tickets are pretty expensive and ironically, thanks to HCMG, Pokes are on TV a lot. ( Although quite frankly, I enjoy the radio broadcasts much more)

In summation, it’s boring to me right now. I’m ready for the energy and excitement to return.

I agree. My theory is that the offense has gotten more and more conservative as coaching turnover has happened on the offensive staff:

Curtis Luper - left after 2008
Gunter Brewer - left after 2010
Dana Holgerson - left after 2010
Joe DeForest - left after 2011
Todd Monken - left after 2012
Joe Wickline- left after 2012
Doug Meacham - left after 2012
Marcus Arroyo - left after 2016
Mike Yurcich - left after 2018
Josh Henson - left after 2018

(I'm leaving some out...)

I think we've put more emphasis on work-life balance with assistant coaches and also brought in guys that don't recruit at the same level as some of the guys who've left. I think the end result is that there's tremendous inertia in the program right now which is good for sustained success but bad if we're looking for the splash/exciting years of the past.

I think it's also worth considering that a coaches full impact isn't known until they're last recruiting class has graduated and some of these coaches in the past had a hand in some major strides we made.

 

[andylicious]

I agree. My theory is that the offense has gotten more and more conservative as coaching turnover has happened on the offensive staff:

Curtis Luper - left after 2008
Gunter Brewer - left after 2010
Dana Holgerson - left after 2010
Joe DeForest - left after 2011
Todd Monken - left after 2012
Joe Wickline- left after 2012
Doug Meacham - left after 2012
Marcus Arroyo - left after 2016
Mike Yurcich - left after 2018
Josh Henson - left after 2018

(I'm leaving some out...)

I think we've put more emphasis on work-life balance with assistant coaches and also brought in guys that don't recruit at the same level as some of the guys who've left. I think the end result is that there's tremendous inertia in the program right now which is good for sustained success but bad if we're looking for the splash/exciting years of the past.

I think it's also worth considering that a coaches full impact isn't known until they're last recruiting class has graduated and some of these coaches in the past had a hand in some major strides we made.

You are correct, and we aren't seeing the fire to win. How do you have a bye week and drop the dud that occurred in the goon game?

 

[malpoke]

Annnnnd this is why no changes will be made any time soon, I’m willing to bet at least half of our fan base is “ok” with beating Tulsa, losing to Texas and OU but making a worthless bowl game just because they are afraid we will fall back into the 90s coming off probation playing in a high school stadium. Rinse and repeat next year.

Most oSu fans will bitch at the obvious potential failures to happen, low energy / flatness entering games, poor preparations, poor coaching etc....only for few days or before getting blasted before certain upcoming games.

In general, most fans will stop bitching after Thursday and start, being mellow, be optimistic and proceed to cheer the Cowboys against the likes of Tech, TCU and Baylor.

 

[OSU9953]

Every team outside of Clemson, Alabama, Ohio State, LSU, Auburn and OU (big 12 championships) would be saying precisely the same thing for the last 10 years. Being a perennial top 20 team vs a perennial top 5 is a massive jump. Basically noone has accomplished this is the last 20 years outside of Oregon and Clemson and you could argue that Oregon has fallen off.

At some point you have to just be realistic about how this system works and be glad to be annually discussing championships in November- hopefully we put it together at some point.

lmao in other words...just settle and never strive for anything else. Hey if that’s for approach...good for you. Doesn’t work for me. Like I said, every old head on this board will be dead and gone by the time we put it together

 

[Ridebreck]

There are several things about Gundy that I'm not fond of and I absolutely wish that his players and coaches could have hung a few more conference title banners. However, I also have to be realistic. When you consider all of the metrics that a college football coach should be measured against, Gundy checks a hell of a lot of the boxes - especially off the field. Players are graduating at a high percentage, knuckleheads are rarely a problem, many assistant coaches have gone on to receive promotions, etc. On the field we've frankly done pretty damned well - although we are far from immune from laying some pretty big eggs from time to time.

Simply put, firing Gundy would be a huge mistake - both financially as well as from a future hire standpoint. Sure, he would be gone, but then what? What quality coach is going to want to come to a school that fired an alumni, former star player who became by far the most successful coach in school history and was averaging nearly 9 wins per season and running a clean, well-respected program? Honestly, it would just be stupid. As much as the guy annoys the hell out of me at times, he's doing just about everything right that he's supposed to.

 

[OSU1994]

There are several things about Gundy that I'm not fond of and I absolutely wish that his players and coaches could have hung a few more conference title banners. However, I also have to be realistic. When you consider all of the metrics that a college football coach should be measured against, Gundy checks a hell of a lot of the boxes - especially off the field. Players are graduating at a high percentage, knuckleheads are rarely a problem, many assistant coaches have gone on to receive promotions, etc. On the field we've frankly done pretty damned well - although we are far from immune from laying some pretty big eggs from time to time.

Simply put, firing Gundy would be a huge mistake - both financially as well as from a future hire standpoint. Sure, he would be gone, but then what? What quality coach is going to want to come to a school that fired an alumni, former star player who became by far the most successful coach in school history and was averaging nearly 9 wins per season and running a clean, well-respected program? Honestly, it would just be stupid. As much as the guy annoys the hell out of me at times, he's doing just about everything right that he's supposed to.

Agreed, Gundy does not deserve to be fired, that would be stupid. I just wish there was someone who could talk to him and show him how badly he hurts the kids on the field by denying them the opportunity to win. It is ok to lose while trying to win but willfully eliminating the chance to win is bad. This will eventually chase off season ticket holders and donors, so Holder has to consider figuring out a way to get Gundy to change even just a little bit.


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[malpoke]

Yeah.....
I'm sure that's what he'd be saying if we had made the playoffs the last 3 years, we're breaking in a new quarterback and were getting ready to make the conference title game because we had beaten both our In State rival and Texas since those 2 losses.

......and they are or seem to be getting better, stronger and healthier as the season progress,

....but we do not seem to improve and getting better as the season progress.

Mark of good coaching as stated by Jimmy Johnson: "From game to game experience, film studies, learning, adjustments, teamwork & Chemistry and conditioning, good coaching will improve the team as the season progress."

 

[malpoke]

There are several things about Gundy that I'm not fond of and I absolutely wish that his players and coaches could have hung a few more conference title banners. However, I also have to be realistic. When you consider all of the metrics that a college football coach should be measured against, Gundy checks a hell of a lot of the boxes - especially off the field. Players are graduating at a high percentage, knuckleheads are rarely a problem, many assistant coaches have gone on to receive promotions, etc. On the field we've frankly done pretty damned well - although we are far from immune from laying some pretty big eggs from time to time.

Simply put, firing Gundy would be a huge mistake - both financially as well as from a future hire standpoint. Sure, he would be gone, but then what? What quality coach is going to want to come to a school that fired an alumni, former star player who became by far the most successful coach in school history and was averaging nearly 9 wins per season and running a clean, well-respected program? Honestly, it would just be stupid. As much as the guy annoys the hell out of me at times, he's doing just about everything right that he's supposed to.

Pretty much agree on Gundy as the HC, but his stamping of Gundy 101 offense on the OC is pretty upsetting.

We need another Boone Pickens that will donate hundred of millions and stiff neck on Gundy.

We need to stop awarding contract extension to Gundy. As someone said before, it won't hurt recruiting at all. With the facilities and the stability of Gundy at the helm, we were and are not winning much against the likes of Baylor and TCU much less Texas and 0U.