How do we finish?

Herecomesbullets · Nov 29, 2020

Rack said:

Point is what I said

Since 2014 we have averaged finsishing 4th in the league.

Most OSU fans that are unhappy point to that period of time as the begiinning of our slide into mediocrity.

If you can watch yesterday, the KState game, the OU game, the Tulsa game etc....and not see mediocrity then we disagree.

Averaging finishing 4th in the league pretty much proves that.

Comparing now to anything in the past is dumb.

We had a High School stadium

Heck, overall we had High School football facilities

We have an above average fighting chance now.

Rack · Nov 29, 2020

Herecomesbullets said:

The team played a good game yesterday overall...we only turned it over 2 times and had a safety and a td on an on-sides play. Offense looked so much improved after having the same guys play the same o-line spots for a full week...Certainly shouldn't have been this close...you score on that final play and it's more lopsided. Tech had won week prior vs Baylor and has a win over WVU and had Bowman back and 100%. It was a good win vs a team we had not beaten in three years.

Rack · Nov 29, 2020

Herecomesbullets said:

If this is true, "most" OSU fans would be wrong based on the facts.

From 2005 (Gundy's first year) to 2011 (Gundy's Championship year) we finished an average of 5th in the league...we now average...according to you 4th.

But maybe they are right, at least regarding our facilities current rankings...
According to this article our facilities no longer even rank in the top 25
Updated: College football's 25 best facilities in 2020 (247sports.com)

Herecomesbullets · Nov 29, 2020

Rack said:

If this is true, "most" OSU fans would be wrong based on the facts.

From 2005 (Gundy's first year) to 2011 (Gundy's Championship year) we finished an average of 5th in the league...we now average...according to you 4th.

But maybe they are right, at least regarding our facilities current rankings...
According to this article our facilities no longer even rank in the top 25
Updated: College football's 25 best facilities in 2020 (247sports.com)

What did they rank in 1991?

Herecomesbullets · Nov 29, 2020

Rack said:

We gave up 26 first downs, 255 yards rushing, 7 yards a carry, 384 yards passing, 639 yards and 44 points to Tech.

Nothing about that is good.

It took a ridiculous onside kick debacle, a pick 6 and a late 4th down conversion to beat the 9th place team in the league.

At Home

That, as well, is not good.

In fact... thats just plain bad!

We ran the same zone play we've been running all year and we threw it deep to Wallace, like we're always do, and against teams like Tech, he continues to bail our passing game out.

After Wallace, we completed passes to just 2 other receivers, and the next leading receiver had just 36 yards receiving.

Nothing about that was better.

Simply put, our opponent was worse.

It's the same 'ole Gundy offense.

Nothing every changes except the opponent.

Stop the zone play, stop the deep ball to Wallace and we are crippled.

To beat better teams we have to have better scheme than that.

But.......
Yesterday

We played against the #100 ranked total defense in the country that averages giving up close to 200 yards a game rushing.

So..... we barely beat a terrible 9th place Texas Tech team at home and everything goes on as status quo and people like you are good with it.

Rack · Nov 29, 2020

Herecomesbullets said:

We were not in the top 25 then either. ;-( Plus we were 0-10-1. It's safe to say we have come a LONG way in terms of facilities and consistency in winning since 1991...Special thanks to Mike Gundy (both as player and coach), Boone Pickens, and Mike Holder.

olderschool · Nov 29, 2020

Win out.

Rack · Nov 29, 2020

Herecomesbullets said:

Offense was better for us...Running back and QB were both MUCH improved over past games. RB had a season high rushing total and QB played within himself and didn't make stupid mistakes. Yes, we shouldn't have given up as many points to them...but overall it's a win, and that's what matters in this game. Move on and get ready for another team we have had trouble with in TCU. Last two games this year are huge to salvage a good year out of this.

You tell me who and how were going to do better by getting rid of Gundy...give me examples of similar places where that has occured...You guys are high if you think a coaching change is all of a sudden going to take us from where we are to conference champ or even in the title game year in and year out...I would love it if it was that easy...hell it's damn hard and freaking amazing for us to be where we are now that we even care about football and not just in terms of the pageantry of the game like in the old days. Some of you guys don't understand thankfulness.

Herecomesbullets · Nov 29, 2020

Rack said:

Yeah.....
You're wanting to compare success between now and then, but then you're not wanting to compare the difference in facilties.

The only way to truly know if we are over achieving now, as compared to then, is to rank facilties in both periods, then compare how we finished based on those rankings.

Under Gundy, how many times have we finished ranked higher than our facilties rank?

I.E. If our facilities averaged ranked say 101st in the country in the the '70's, did we not average finishing better than that in the rankings?

I would bet that, even in the 90's, the worst period of OSU history, our average finished ranking was probably pretty close to the ranking of our facilities.

I would bet we have multiple coaches that averaged having higher ranked teams than our facilties would have ranked while they were the head coach at OSU.

So ... has Gundy out ranked the facilIties hes been given better, or even as well, as other coaches we've had in the past?

Herecomesbullets · Nov 29, 2020

Rack said:

Win and move on is always the mantra, until you play good teams.

We played a terrible defense and ran basically 2 plays, zone, deep ball to Wallace.

Nothing different than every other week other than Tech is terrible.

If we played like we did yesterday against OU, they would have kicked our ass the same way they did last week.

Rack · Nov 29, 2020

Herecomesbullets said:

We ran end arounds...we ran bubble screens...we even ran a trick play. What are you talking about? Our offensive line blocked well and we had a 235 yard rusher...21st best rushing day in our history by a back.

Herecomesbullets · Nov 29, 2020

Rack said:

Hence the term "basically"
End arounds is your defense?

Our receivers had 2 carries for -2 yards

Other than Sanders scrambling and, Jackson running the zone play, our next leading rusher had 13 yards

Bubble screens is your defense?

Our 2nd leading receiver had 36 yards

Tylan Wallace averaged 18.4 yards per reception while Sander's averaged just 7.4 yards per completion on the day.

In terms of Jackson's great day...
.
He had 36 of the 38 runs for our backs

He ran zone over and over and over....
Almost exclusively

The exact same zone play we ran 16 times against OU in our 21 carries.

And.... we got our ass kicked by OU

OSU9953 · Nov 29, 2020

TheMonkey said:

yeah Sherlock I know we didn’t. I also know we have different interpretations of “competing”.

2011- yes
2012- hell no
2013- yes but we wet the bed at home against OU
2014- no
2015- yes but we lost with no Rudolph
2016- yes but gundy wet the bed in Norman

At the end of day did gundy get it done? The answer is no outside of 2011. We had a window to make a leap and now that window is closed and only god knows when it’ll open up again. Probably when everyone on this board is long dead and gone.

I guess placing 3rd is competing for a championship.....two teams compete for a title. Finishing 3rd just means you were competitive but to each is own

TheMonkey · Nov 29, 2020

Herecomesbullets said:

Why start grading Gundy in 2014? Monken was 2011-2012.

Look, we can cherry-pick stats till the cows come home. I don’t think we’re changing anyone’s mind here. I’m just saying Gundy had the 2nd best conference record over the last decade. I will concede he has not performed as well in the latter half of that decade. Things do need to improve.

I think we had a similar discussion about this last year. Gundy 2018 and 2019 were the first two consecutive seasons Gundy had gone without 10 wins. Year of the Corndog, and Spencer Sanders’ freshman season. I wanted to see how this season played out. Covid screwed all that up.

I’m not saying Gundy is doing a great job. I’m saying the jury is still out.

Birry · Nov 29, 2020

Rack said:

Beating teams when they are in the top 10 drops them out of the top 10...of course. This is the freaking point of what happens when you beat a top 10 team. So it's an extremely stupid argument you make. The fact is that no one is totally satisfied without winning them all...but many have decided to actually enjoy our football success rather than constantly focus on our failures which are mainly in one game. Some of you are to the point that I think you might actually be rooting for us to lose. For me it's still more fun to win than to lose, so I actually enjoyed the heck out of the game yesterday and I'm not rooting for a coaching change at the top...if you can't enjoy Oklahoma State football with the current coach, I'd suggest you stop watching it for the next five or so years at least.

Dude.....you need to see an optometrist to reduce the thickness of those orange coke bottles you must be wearing. You're bordering on legally blind.

Herecomesbullets · Nov 29, 2020

TheMonkey said:

All good points

My point is that.....

2014 is the specific period in time in which I think almost all OSU fans that are unhappy point to as to the beginning of Gundy inserting so much control.

I don't think any OSU fans are upset with Gundy about much of anything pre 2014.

My specific complaint actually goes with your defense of Gundy.

Things were going so well up to that point that, why in the hell would he change things like he has.

The reason I believe it's apathy and ego

He has figured out a formula that allows him to put the least amount of effort into keeping his job.

In all fronts
Coaching hires, schemes, game plans, game management etc...

And.... by hiring the Mike Yurcich, Sean Gleason etc.... Gundy can control them which goes to the ego part of it.

aggiejet · Nov 29, 2020

Firstly, to answer the thread question ( we’ve had major thread creep here) Baylor W, TCU L (because of their defense and running QB)

I really enjoy everyone’s inputs and tenacity of those points.

That said, IMO perception is reality. All I know is that in my gut, OSU football doesn’t feel the same after 2012. I think most of us average fans (people who’s football IQ amounts to being able to tell the difference between a pass play and a run play) yearn for the Halcyon years of Holgy and Monken. It “seems” HCMG wants an OC he can control or override. I wish he would hire OC’s that play their style, and he stay out of the way. If it doesn’t work, get somebody else.

I’m also in the camp that the OU game is the biggest game of the year. Period. Only thing that surpasses that would be the finals of the playoff. The Pokes best performances against OU since 2012 came in years where the OU game didn’t matter other than pride, 2014 and 2018 (missed PAT game, ugh) Maybe that’s why HCMG tries to downplay the importance of the game.

For the record, we stopped buying season tickets, and as I type this, I’m moderately ashamed of that revelation. But man, those tickets are pretty expensive and ironically, thanks to HCMG, Pokes are on TV a lot. ( Although quite frankly, I enjoy the radio broadcasts much more)

In summation, it’s boring to me right now. I’m ready for the energy and excitement to return.

TheMonkey · Nov 29, 2020

Herecomesbullets said:

Not a lot to argue here. My only caveat is we are assuming intention. I’m not sure this is because of ego, but we may never know that. It could be that Gundy is trying to set up the pieces so we have consistency and he can hand the program over to his successor with some stability. Once again, we can only assume these things.

We need to be back to 10 win seasons and CCG games by next year. Otherwise he may be handing the program over with the wrong kind of stability.

andylicious · Nov 29, 2020

Herecomesbullets said:

I think you are missing their point, we may have a JH coach running a little league offense getting major college money to "coach" in a major college stadium that is charging major college prices. However, it's ok because he once wore our uniform and he has been there long enough that his W-L looks ok.

Big Daddy · Nov 29, 2020

andylicious said:

So, Andy, you think Riley sucks as a coach if two losses in a year that you should have won is your measuring stick ?
He lost to ISU and KSU, both of which we beat.

How do we finish?

Sheriff

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