Holder wants recruiting to improve

  • You are viewing Orangepower as a Guest. To start new threads, reply to posts, or participate in polls or contests - you must register. Registration is free and easy. Click Here to register.
Jul 9, 2011
2,014
1,212
743
63
Near Bryan/College Station in Iola, TX
#82
I will never accept the excuse that always seems to come up about OSU recruiting and "difficulties recruiting to Stillwater". To better illustate the point, I'll show some pictures of downtowns - guess what school the downtown is associated with. Many power school campuses are located in small towns that look (and are) a lot like Stillwater.

First one:
1528922118291.png


See town below:





























Tuscaloosa, AL home to Bama
 

JimmytheGreek

Banned
Banned
Sep 20, 2017
1,950
950
193
45
Texas
#83
I will never accept the excuse that always seems to come up about OSU recruiting and "difficulties recruiting to Stillwater". To better illustate the point, I'll show some pictures of downtowns - guess what school the downtown is associated with. Many power school campuses are located in small towns that look (and are) a lot like Stillwater.

First one:
View attachment 61860

See town below:





























Tuscaloosa, AL home to Bama
Now now. You are ruining the excuses Gundy gives all the Homers.
 

wrenhal

Territorial Marshal
Aug 11, 2011
6,424
3,334
743
48
#85
Agreed, as a whole our athletic department is doing excellent. Just look at the fact that we've won the Bedlam cup as many times in a row as we have and the fact that we're about to even it up. Also look at the fact of where we stand in the learfield Cup standings. And don't forget the hundred percent APR that we put up this last year in several Sports.

I'd say the athletic department as a whole is doing a wonderful job.

Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:

Jostate

CPTNQUIRK called me a greenhorn
A/V Subscriber
Jun 24, 2005
16,965
13,109
1,743
#86
I will never accept the excuse that always seems to come up about OSU recruiting and "difficulties recruiting to Stillwater". To better illustate the point, I'll show some pictures of downtowns - guess what school the downtown is associated with. Many power school campuses are located in small towns that look (and are) a lot like Stillwater.

First one:
View attachment 61860

Tuscaloosa, AL home to Bama
That taller building in the center is actually their trophy case full of national and conference championship trophies. It requires a 5 story building.
 

wrenhal

Territorial Marshal
Aug 11, 2011
6,424
3,334
743
48
#87
You mean like adding a jumbotron on GIA or hanging banners in the Indoor facility...or paying him five plus million? I'd say Holder's jumping. Look I agree that Gundy is doing a great job...but we are indeed looking for exceptional and that means having a fire to beat OU and winning Conference Championships. He's hopefully our best coach in my lifetime, but to strive for even more is a good thing, for both Gundy and Holder...always is... these two want the same things. One just likes to "motivate" those who work for him through the lens of exceptionally high standards. It works most of the time...but it isn't foolproof.
The Jumbo was private funds, the banners turned into a fight, and Salary is not what I was referring to.

We recruit substantially higher nationally as compared to what we spend on recruiting. In terms of recruits/spending ratio we may very well be the best in the country.

If we are to pinpoint anything is holding us back in recruiting, the budget needs scrutinized before anything else.
You know I don't remember there being any proof given that there was actually any fight going on about the banners. My understanding was the banners, a better recruiting budget, better budget for assistants and some other stuff was what he was looking for this year and he got everything he asked for.

Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk
 

Philranger

Territorial Marshal
Oct 6, 2010
7,859
6,814
743
Owasso
#88
I will never accept the excuse that always seems to come up about OSU recruiting and "difficulties recruiting to Stillwater". To better illustate the point, I'll show some pictures of downtowns - guess what school the downtown is associated with. Many power school campuses are located in small towns that look (and are) a lot like Stillwater.

First one:
View attachment 61860

See town below:





























Tuscaloosa, AL home to Bama
You know it's not the same thing. First thing Tuscaloosa is about twice the size of Stillwater. And Bama has a mountain of tradition, titles, and 1st round draft picks to overcome the drawbacks of recruiting to a smaller town in the middle of nowhere.

That said, we need to be recruiting better. Is it too much to ask to at least be in the top 25 of the recruiting rankings every year?
 

cowboyethics344

Federal Marshal
Apr 2, 2008
16,750
7,950
1,743
#89
We have top 15 finishes and there is no reason we can’t get top 25 classes. I just wonder how glass and some of the other coaches would do with 3 to 4 more 4 star recruits. I mean they could probably have a few more big 12 titles if just that.
 

Jostate

CPTNQUIRK called me a greenhorn
A/V Subscriber
Jun 24, 2005
16,965
13,109
1,743
#90
Getting a highly ranked recruiting class seems a bit daunting.

So did having a state of the art stadium, next to one of the finest indoor practice facilities in college football a couple of decades ago. Holder thinks big.
 
Aug 16, 2012
664
569
643
55
#91
1) College I and my family rooted for growing up
2) Any ties my immediate family may have to a university (maybe its where they went to school)
3) Proximity to home so my family can attend games easily
These are huge.

If Dabo Swinney can build an elite football program at a non-blue blood program, Coach Gundy can too. Coach Swinney did this by elevating the recruiting Level at Clemson.
People always bring up the size of Clemson, SC. Yes, Clemson itself is small at roughly 14,000. Problem is, it is part of the Greenville-Spartanburg-Anderson Combined Statistical Area which has over 1.2 million people. (Tulsa is 1.2M, OKC is 1.4M). But where Clemson benefits even more is the fact it is about 75 minutes to Atlanta, 75 minutes to Columbia, 90 minutes to Charlotte, a little more than 2 hours to Chattanooga or Knoxville. Millions upon millions of people, let alone hundreds of top-quality football players are within a 250 mile radius of Clemson. See #3 above which is very important to many recruits.

Several other non-blue blood programs like Colorado, Washington, Georgia Tech and Auburn have won NC's as well.
I would never trade our program for selling our soul like Colorado did in 1990. Washington's 1991 team was a ridiculous anomaly with 11 NFL draftees that year in addition underclassmen such as Lincoln Kennedy, Napoleon Kaufman, Mark Brunell, Mark Bruener, Billy Joe Hobert, Pete Pierson, Aaron Pierce, D'Marco Farr, Jaime Fields. I would put that team as the top of any list, including current Alabama rosters, as the single team that produced the most quality NFL talent. Problem is....THEY CHEATED...big time. Coach "resigned", sanctions. Really want that here? Not sure how you let Auburn into this list as College Football Research Center lists them as the 14th best program in college football history, Bleacher Report lists Auburn as the 18th best, College Football Data Warehouse-13th, and ESPN lists them as 21st.

I will never accept the excuse that always seems to come up about OSU recruiting and "difficulties recruiting to Stillwater"
Then you are ignoring a huge issue. Stillwater is in the middle of nowhere. Yes, arguments can be made for other towns seemingly in the middle of nowhere, but those are few and far-between. Even State College, PA is within 2 hours of Pittsburg (and the whole western PA football tradition), just over two hours from Philadelphia and Baltimore. Stillwater is at a disadvantage as the largest MSA reasonably close is DFW and of OU, TCU, Baylor and Texas, Stillwater is the furthest away and at the disadvantage from kids in Dallas are simply not raised to be OSU fans. For example, the Dallas Morning News has dedicated sports tabs for all of those other schools in addition to TTU, SMU and even UNT, but not OSU. I actually wrote them years ago asking why and they stated there is simply not enough traffic on OSU stories to warrant them any special attention.

You know it's not the same thing. First thing Tuscaloosa is about twice the size of Stillwater. And Bama has a mountain of tradition, titles, and 1st round draft picks to overcome the drawbacks of recruiting to a smaller town in the middle of nowhere.
Which speaks volumes. Go to any national story about an OSU game and you will see a handful of comments while games for OU or any other "blueblood" program will have comments frequently in the thousands. OSU is not a brand name discussed with "bluebloods" despite the level of success that has been attained over the past decade. Criminy, you can go to OSU articles now and still see people slamming the school because of Dexter Manley's illiteracy....almost 40 years after the fact, not the fact we have been pretty darn successful recently. Look up merchandising stats and OSU typically falls in the mid-20s with UCLA being pretty much the only "blueblood" program that sells less.
 
Apr 27, 2006
1,200
516
1,743
#93
These are huge.


People always bring up the size of Clemson, SC. Yes, Clemson itself is small at roughly 14,000. Problem is, it is part of the Greenville-Spartanburg-Anderson Combined Statistical Area which has over 1.2 million people. (Tulsa is 1.2M, OKC is 1.4M). But where Clemson benefits even more is the fact it is about 75 minutes to Atlanta, 75 minutes to Columbia, 90 minutes to Charlotte, a little more than 2 hours to Chattanooga or Knoxville. Millions upon millions of people, let alone hundreds of top-quality football players are within a 250 mile radius of Clemson. See #3 above which is very important to many recruits.


I would never trade our program for selling our soul like Colorado did in 1990. Washington's 1991 team was a ridiculous anomaly with 11 NFL draftees that year in addition underclassmen such as Lincoln Kennedy, Napoleon Kaufman, Mark Brunell, Mark Bruener, Billy Joe Hobert, Pete Pierson, Aaron Pierce, D'Marco Farr, Jaime Fields. I would put that team as the top of any list, including current Alabama rosters, as the single team that produced the most quality NFL talent. Problem is....THEY CHEATED...big time. Coach "resigned", sanctions. Really want that here? Not sure how you let Auburn into this list as College Football Research Center lists them as the 14th best program in college football history, Bleacher Report lists Auburn as the 18th best, College Football Data Warehouse-13th, and ESPN lists them as 21st.


Then you are ignoring a huge issue. Stillwater is in the middle of nowhere. Yes, arguments can be made for other towns seemingly in the middle of nowhere, but those are few and far-between. Even State College, PA is within 2 hours of Pittsburg (and the whole western PA football tradition), just over two hours from Philadelphia and Baltimore. Stillwater is at a disadvantage as the largest MSA reasonably close is DFW and of OU, TCU, Baylor and Texas, Stillwater is the furthest away and at the disadvantage from kids in Dallas are simply not raised to be OSU fans. For example, the Dallas Morning News has dedicated sports tabs for all of those other schools in addition to TTU, SMU and even UNT, but not OSU. I actually wrote them years ago asking why and they stated there is simply not enough traffic on OSU stories to warrant them any special attention.


Which speaks volumes. Go to any national story about an OSU game and you will see a handful of comments while games for OU or any other "blueblood" program will have comments frequently in the thousands. OSU is not a brand name discussed with "bluebloods" despite the level of success that has been attained over the past decade. Criminy, you can go to OSU articles now and still see people slamming the school because of Dexter Manley's illiteracy....almost 40 years after the fact, not the fact we have been pretty darn successful recently. Look up merchandising stats and OSU typically falls in the mid-20s with UCLA being pretty much the only "blueblood" program that sells less.
That is a butt load of excuses.
 

Jostate

CPTNQUIRK called me a greenhorn
A/V Subscriber
Jun 24, 2005
16,965
13,109
1,743
#94
Criminy, you can go to OSU articles now and still see people slamming the school because of Dexter Manley's illiteracy....almost 40 years after the fact,.
Dexter Manley can kiss my butt.

(Please nobody read this to him)
 

Rack

Federal Marshal
Oct 13, 2004
18,059
8,215
1,743
Earth
#95
You know I don't remember there being any proof given that there was actually any fight going on about the banners. My understanding was the banners, a better recruiting budget, better budget for assistants and some other stuff was what he was looking for this year and he got everything he asked for.

Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk
nope no fight just Jumping. always jumping. :)
 
Dec 21, 2008
505
282
1,613
#96
I will probably get some blow back on this post but if HCMG can not get Dax Hill on campus he may not ever get a 5* recruit. He has never had this much advantage on a 5* guy in his tenure. He definitely has some obstacles to overcome but if this one slips away it may be time to look for a coach that can take us to the next level. Don't get me wrong, I am a Gundy fan. He has done a great job, but I agree with Holder that it takes talent to win championships and if he can't get this 5* he probably isn't the guy to get the talent to win championships.

Fire away.
I know many people who know Dax. Justice is an introvert and loved the family first attention and opportunity osu gave him. He grew up an OSU fan. Dax is an extremely gifted NFL caliber player at the HS level. Speed size and smarts. He is an extrovert and likes attention. When you have been around OSUs facilities and coaches for 3+ yrs sometimes you want something new. Many facilities have caught up to us and are even nicer in some areas. Even his closest friends don’t know where he is leaning. If I had to bet I would guess Michigan or Bama due to exposure/attention and NFL aspirations. If it comes down to his family then it’ll be OSU but I think he wants to explore a new option.
 

Cro

Sheriff
Apr 6, 2010
3,496
1,891
743
Edmond
#98
I will never accept the excuse that always seems to come up about OSU recruiting and "difficulties recruiting to Stillwater". To better illustate the point, I'll show some pictures of downtowns - guess what school the downtown is associated with. Many power school campuses are located in small towns that look (and are) a lot like Stillwater.

First one:
View attachment 61860

See town below:





























Tuscaloosa, AL home to Bama
LOL................. downtowns of different blue bloods.......... well, if all it comes down to who's got the cooler small town downtown, then Gundy has obviously not taken any 5*'s down main st........... did Holder talk about downtowns on the pod cast? i haven't listened............ that would be a great story to hear about how Holder stole that Stanford recruit in the 80's. it came down to Stillwater's downtown vs Palo Alto's............
 
Dec 19, 2012
1,058
446
713
33
What mens or womens sport are we recruiting "4 star" equivalent elite kids out of high school on a regular basis? Golf, maybe? Wrestling? Not basketball, I don't think baseball. Why pick on football? OSU football has had the best success in history under Gundy.
Interesting thing to bring up... I think the only comparable is basketball, and we actually have pulled some top tier talent there on a consistent basis despite fairly poor results on court:
Marcus Smart
Lebryan Nash
James Anderson all five stars in recent years. Plus many more 4 stars when you compare per capita (Cobbins, Evans, Clark were all big gets).
When Eddie was here right after Gundy started we had several in one year and the number one recruiting class in the nation. Granted that class fell apart and Gerald Green went straight pro.
It does make you wonder why football can't do similar things.