Holder wants recruiting to improve

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Boomer.....

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#61
I will probably get some blow back on this post but if HCMG can not get Dax Hill on campus he may not ever get a 5* recruit. He has never had this much advantage on a 5* guy in his tenure. He definitely has some obstacles to overcome but if this one slips away it may be time to look for a coach that can take us to the next level. Don't get me wrong, I am a Gundy fan. He has done a great job, but I agree with Holder that it takes talent to win championships and if he can't get this 5* he probably isn't the guy to get the talent to win championships.

Fire away.
Be prepared for disappointment.

:popcorn:
 

Jostate

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#62
Holder needs to quit looking at what OU is doing in recruiting right now. Not fair to compare us to a program like OU. It's like comparing OU wrestling to OSU's. I want better players on the defensive side of the ball as well.

Gundy gets paid almost $2 mil / year more than OU's coach. OU is first in the conference over the last decade, we're second. The last time OU won a natty was when most of this year's recruits were about 6 months old.

Yes OU still has the deck stacked in their favor, but somewhere along the way we have to stop saying it's unreasonable to expect us to compete with our biggest rival.
 
Oct 30, 2007
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#63
I will probably get some blow back on this post but if HCMG can not get Dax Hill on campus he may not ever get a 5* recruit. He has never had this much advantage on a 5* guy in his tenure. He definitely has some obstacles to overcome but if this one slips away it may be time to look for a coach that can take us to the next level. Don't get me wrong, I am a Gundy fan. He has done a great job, but I agree with Holder that it takes talent to win championships and if he can't get this 5* he probably isn't the guy to get the talent to win championships.

Fire away.
Most non-blue blood programs struggle to land 5-star prospects unless they're dirty like Ole Miss. They typically go to NFL factories like Alabama and LSU. I would love to get Dax Hill. He would probably be the most talented defensive prospect Coach Gundy has ever landed. I know Richetti Jones was a 5-star before he broke his hip, but he never was the same after his injury. He may not want to follow in his brother's footsteps though.

I'm not hung up on landing 5-star prospects. It would be nice from time to time, but what I'm focused on are 4-star and high 3-star prospects. (Especially on the defensive side of the ball.) It bothers me when we land 2-star defensive prospects who have primarily been recruited by non-power 5 programs. Our production on defense has reflected our struggles in recruiting.

What we really need to do is step up to the plate and start beating some of the non-blue blood schools for 4-star and high 3-star prospects. We've had a solid decade of success and there's no reason why we shouldn't consistently land top 25 recruiting classes.

Coach Henson has done a good job already of recruiting to sure up our offensive line. Hopefully Coach Knowles will do the same thing for the defense. I believe in Coach Gundy. He just needs to set his sights a little higher in recruiting.
 
Mar 8, 2010
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#64
You do know Clemson had a NC in football long before Dabo Swinney? Again apples to oranges.


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Really? How many years ago was that? Those kids parents probably weren't even born yet when that happened. If you use that argument, then you need to consider that we have a NC too. Clemson WAS NOT a blue blood program before Swinney got there. If Dabo can do it, then Mike should be able to. His biggest obstacle that Clemson doesn't have to worry about is playing in a state where there already is a blueblood.
 

Jostate

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#65
Before this descends down the inevitable bedlam rabble or stars don't matter debate, I just want to say listening to Holder made me like him more than I previously did.
 

Ptak'sNewspaper

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#68
Before this descends down the inevitable bedlam rabble or stars don't matter debate, I just want to say listening to Holder made me like him more than I previously did.
I feel the same way.

I did get the vibe that he and Gundy may not talk much, if at all. Just the way Holder worded a few things such as "I would say to Mike" when talking about recruiting. It came across to me that the two don't speak much, which if true, isn't good. Of course I'm just speculating so I very well could be way off. I must say, I'm really tired of the Holder/Gundy drama and I'm not a huge fan of either at this point, even though I do appreciate greatly what both have done for our university.

Also, I found it amusing when Holder got onto the Pistols Firing guys about their recruiting budget piece as well as their negativity. He really stressed to them how important it is for them and everyone else in orange to be positive and speak positively about our athletic program. Which I agree with.

Our fan base should be much more proud of our athletic accomplishments than we are. We've had a lot of weak minded fans be told their whole lives that football is the only sport that matters and many have bought that garbage. Then when Boone Pickens made his gift (which I appreciate) many thought that we would soon be just as good as anyone else at football. And when that didn't quite happen, I think a lot of disappointment has taken place and caused many of those weak minded fans to generate a lot of negativity about our athletic program as a whole.

Should we be content and satisfied with our football program? IMO, no, not with the $$$ we've pumped into it.

But should we be crowing about our athletic program as a whole? Hell yes we should. We should be proud of it, and show it every day, regardless of what some other school's fan boys have to say about it (state media included).
 

Midnight Toker

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#69
He'll go to Bama.

How many safeties from Bama go in Rd1, vs safeties from 0U? If that's his end goal, it seems the obvious choice.
I think he'll get to the NFL regardless of where he goes. Maybe he wants to keep it in state, he does have the two state schools as his finalists. I think for high end defensive backs the challenge of playing against big 12 offenses has its appeal, but for some that's too much of a challenge to accept. but it would be nice to see if the best of the best can stand with the big 12 offenses week after week
 

Jostate

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#70
I did get the vibe that he and Gundy may not talk much, if at all. Just the way Holder worded a few things such as "I would say to Mike" when talking about recruiting.
I thought that was odd. I was thinking, you're his boss, you can say it all you want. I assume he has and was just stating it like that is one thing he wants to emphasize.

Also, I found it amusing when Holder got onto the Pistols Firing guys about their recruiting budget piece as well as their negativity. He really stressed to them how important it is for them and everyone else in orange to be positive and speak positively about our athletic program. Which I agree with.
To be fair he also said they were right to question some things and call them out on stuff they don't agree with. I liked that he encouraged their honesty and not just all out, Robert Allen style, cheer leading.
 

PontiacPoke717

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#72
I think he'll get to the NFL regardless of where he goes. Maybe he wants to keep it in state, he does have the two state schools as his finalists. I think for high end defensive backs the challenge of playing against big 12 offenses has its appeal, but for some that's too much of a challenge to accept. but it would be nice to see if the best of the best can stand with the big 12 offenses week after week
I think as a 17 year old, the thought of going Rd#1 and guaranteeing a great payday, then looking at the statistics (which these SEC schools are undoubtedly doing in recruiting)... history shows going to an SEC school (or even tOSU) vs. a big 12 school, especially as a DB... leans heavily in favor of the SEC.
 

Midnight Toker

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#74
I think as a 17 year old, the thought of going Rd#1 and guaranteeing a great payday, then looking at the statistics (which these SEC schools are undoubtedly doing in recruiting)... history shows going to an SEC school (or even tOSU) vs. a big 12 school, especially as a DB... leans heavily in favor of the SEC.
Oh I well understand the reputation of the sec, and we need to do better as a conference to battle that image. But if louisville, virginia tech, and central florida can put out a 1st round db, so we can a big 12 team. For the chance of being groomed into a round 1 pick at a place like alabama, you'd likely have to wait your turn, as the other 5 star studs ahead of you on the depth chart are getting their turn. At a place like OU or Osu, Hill would come in and probably be a 3 year starter out the gate.
 

Rack

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#75
If Holder wants 5* recruits he better be asking "how high" every time Gundy says "jump".
You mean like adding a jumbotron on GIA or hanging banners in the Indoor facility...or paying him five plus million? I'd say Holder's jumping. Look I agree that Gundy is doing a great job...but we are indeed looking for exceptional and that means having a fire to beat OU and winning Conference Championships. He's hopefully our best coach in my lifetime, but to strive for even more is a good thing, for both Gundy and Holder...always is... these two want the same things. One just likes to "motivate" those who work for him through the lens of exceptionally high standards. It works most of the time...but it isn't foolproof.
 

StillwaterMan

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#79
You mean like adding a jumbotron on GIA or hanging banners in the Indoor facility...or paying him five plus million? I'd say Holder's jumping. Look I agree that Gundy is doing a great job...but we are indeed looking for exceptional and that means having a fire to beat OU and winning Conference Championships. He's hopefully our best coach in my lifetime, but to strive for even more is a good thing, for both Gundy and Holder...always is... these two want the same things. One just likes to "motivate" those who work for him through the lens of exceptionally high standards. It works most of the time...but it isn't foolproof.
The Jumbo was private funds, the banners turned into a fight, and Salary is not what I was referring to.

We recruit substantially higher nationally as compared to what we spend on recruiting. In terms of recruits/spending ratio we may very well be the best in the country.

If we are to pinpoint anything is holding us back in recruiting, the budget needs scrutinized before anything else.
 
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#80
I think as a 17 year old, the thought of going Rd#1 and guaranteeing a great payday, then looking at the statistics (which these SEC schools are undoubtedly doing in recruiting)... history shows going to an SEC school (or even tOSU) vs. a big 12 school, especially as a DB... leans heavily in favor of the SEC.
I hear that ou is paying just as well as the SEC schools now that Lincoln is in charge.